Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

[theefaith]

Christians are made by trusting in the death and Resurrection of jesus alone!
Matt. 28 is baptism for disciples (which means they are already believers)
John 3 Jesus is referring to natural and spiritual birth! He further defines it in verse 6--flesh birth and spirit birth! We are grown in water and birthed in a water sac! the phrase pregnant women say when they begin labor--" My water broke" is testomony to that fact. It was called water birth in olden times until modern science explained it. It is still water.
John 4--baptizing people who are already followers--wrong again!

Baptism is a work. Eph. 2 shows we are not saved by any work!
Baptism is an outward acxt of what is already an inward reality. Baptism is for believers only!

eph 2 refers to redemption not justification or salvation

baptism required

why is it mentioned in eph 4:5 three things important
One Lord one faith (Catholic) one baptism

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[theefaith]

Wisdom of the Church fathers successors of the apostles with the authority of Christ

A) "It does not suffice to believe. He who believes and is not yet baptized, but is only a Catechumen, has not yet fully acquired salvation." St. Thomas Aquinas

B) "Now, even the Catechumen believes in the Cross of the Lord Jesus, but unless he be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace." St. Ambrose

C) "Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified. If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

D)
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

E) “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
JUSTIN MARTYR

TERTULLIAN
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

ORIGEN
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

POPE LEO I
“And because of the transgression of the first man, the whole stock of the human race was tainted; no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ’s sacrament of baptism, in which there are no distinctions between the reborn, as the apostle [Paul] says, ‘For as many of you as were baptized in Christ did put on Christ; there is neither Jew nor Greek . . . ‘ [Gal. 3:27–28]” (Letters 15:10[11] [A.D. 445]).

FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
“From that time at which our Savior said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], no one can, without the sacrament of baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without baptism, pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).

Baptism

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying INFANTS; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

Origen
THE CHURCH RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The APOSTLES, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

 

[theefaith]

Thee faith has lived as a soldier of the RCC . I pray he dies not as one . For the end of that does not bode well .
His father is the RCC , His mother is the RCC . He knows only the RCC . WE must pray for him , but do not follow that path .

At least in the mind of a fundamentalist
Thanks for the compliment “faithful” that’s what we called to be

 

[theefaith]

Is pope francis an apostel of Christ . I mean he so called sits in the seat . THIS is a far better question for you to answer .
IF the so called seat of peter IS IN THE RCC , that means POPE FRANCIS SITS ON IT . AND you gonna tell me
that man is an apostel of Christ . THE RCC made the simplicity of CHRIST so man made tradition and added too and took from the original pattern .
You must flee her my friend . I will keep praying for you . My desire is for your good .

there have been imposters and anti-popes before
See what he teaches
Is it thee faith of the church
If not do not follow him
Must be valid

 

[amigo de christo]

At least in the mind of a fundamentalist
Thanks for the compliment “faithful” that’s what we called to be

Before i ask this next question , remember i once asked you another question . You answered it , and i never once got mad .
SO i ask this next question out of curiosity . And no matter what you say , worry not i wont be offended .
What do you think should be done unto fundamentalists who refuse to conform to society or any other religion .
Do you think they ought to be re educated . Or do you see them as dangerous .
What kind of ideas do you think would work in a society . I mean i know the RCC is huge on this world peace and unity .
Only i will never conform to it . So how can this world have true peace and unity when there are some who wont conform to this
said peace and unity . Do remember i would never harm a fly . I Dont even beleive in self defense .
However , what do you think ought to be done unto those who refuse to conform to anything that is contrary
to what was first written in the bible . The gosples , the letters of the apostels and so forth .
HOW would you solve this . If the decision was up to you . HOW would you solve the problem with the fundamentals
who refuse to conform .

 

[theefaith]

Before i ask this next question , remember i once asked you another question . You answered it , and i never once got mad .
SO i ask this next question out of curiosity . And no matter what you say , worry not i wont be offended .
What do you think should be done unto fundamentalists who refuse to conform to society or any other religion .
Do you think they ought to be re educated . Or do you see them as dangerous .
What kind of ideas do you think would work in a society . I mean i know the RCC is huge on this world peace and unity .
Only i will never conform to it . So how can this world have true peace and unity when there are some who wont conform to this
said peace and unity . Do remember i would never harm a fly . I Dont even beleive in self defense .
However , what do you think ought to be done unto those who refuse to conform to anything that is contrary
to what was first written in the bible . The gosples , the letters of the apostels and so forth .
HOW would you solve this . If the decision was up to you . HOW would you solve the problem with the fundamentals
who refuse to conform .

the catholic faith is the gospel
The church wrote the New Testament

 

[theefaith]

If there was a perfect country?

everyone would be catholic!

With a king and queen ruling and reining in peace and justice

 

[theefaith]

Suffering is good for us!

grace is sufficient?

grace enabled him to suffer virtuously for Christ!

if it was God’s Grace why did he still suffer? That would be works?


Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.





Heb 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He is our model in everything!

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[kcnalp]

I think if you write this in bold print a total of 4,962 times- it still won't be true, but at least you will have done a lot of writing!

If you don't have Christian works you're gonna have a really BAD day on Judgment Day. James said so.

James 2:20 (NKJV)
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

eph 2 refers to redemption not justification or salvation

baptism required

why is it mentioned in eph 4:5 three things important
One Lord one faith (Catholic) one baptism

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

You need to learn to read!


Ephesians 2:8
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;

salvation- sav ed= "sozo" to save.

Redemption is from three words
agorazo, exagorazo, lutroo

You are wrong.

but I did love the verses you posted- nothing to do with believers baptism but loads for eternal security which you reject.

 

[kcnalp]

So many self proclaimed Greek experts here trying to rewrite our Christian Bible!

 

[theefaith]

You need to learn to read!


Ephesians 2:8
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;

salvation- sav ed= "sozo" to save.

Redemption is from three words
agorazo, exagorazo, lutroo

You are wrong.

but I did love the verses you posted- nothing to do with believers baptism but loads for eternal security which you reject.

no I believe totally in once saved always saved

 

[kcnalp]

no I believe totally in once saved always saved

Christians whose end is to be burned!

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

 

[theefaith]

Christians whose end is to be burned!

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

The difference is when does salvation begin
We are in Christ and his church in grace
And in his covenant
We have eternal life thru grace
But we must believe (not once) Jn 3:16 believes continuing faithful till death matt 24:13 the dying in Christ and his grace we gain salvation rom 13:11 and once saved always saved or eternal security

 

[DPMartin]

You will find them throughout the New Testament. As quoted in the OP "We are not made righteous by doing righteous deeds; but when we have been made righteous we do righteous deeds." LUTHER

i was asking stumpmaster

 

[kcnalp]

The difference is when does salvation begin
We are in Christ and his church in grace
And in his covenant
We have eternal life thru grace
But we must believe (not once) Jn 3:16 believes continuing faithful till death matt 24:13 the dying in Christ and his grace we gain salvation rom 13:11 and once saved always saved or eternal security

"Partakers of the Holy Spirit" have clearly experienced Christian salvation.

"whose end is to be burned"

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I think people fail to realize we are saved by grace period. It is but by the grace of God through the redemption in Christ Jesus that was are saved. But God is not going to force it on us he offers it to all people. But his offer is foolishness to the human spirit, to think that God himself would come and pay the debt for mankind that all we have to do is in faith receive this gift and our debt is paid in full is against human logic, that’s why the worlds religions are based on works, how good we are, or what type of religious things we have done

in order to have true saving faith we must become like the tax collector or as Jesus said, poor (bankrupt) in spirit, calling out to God for mercy. Because we have full repented, and realize we have no other option.

This is what the law teaches, God gave moses a list of commands, and said this is what you are to do. Then he made Moses make the children of Israel confirm that they would obey every word (perfection) this is us achievable, only Christ has met this standard. No one else has. So all have sinned and fall short, when we realise this fact, the law tells us then also what must be done, the shed blood of redemption. Which CHrist did on the cross as lamb of God, as Jesus told nicodemus, he must be raised like Moses raised the serpent, that whoever believes has eternal life.

another thing the flesh will never accept. That Jesus paid the debt in full and just saying yes in faith to God one will never hunger or thirst, never die, live forever and has eternal life (john 6). Eternal security is also shunned. As again, people can not believe our sin debt is paid in full and we have nothing we can offer. The human flesh wants to pay its own debt, its proud, its self seeking, and it will reject the true gospel and try to make their own gospel that suits their desires and their beliefs,

that’s why narrow is the gate,

A Masterpiece Of a Post..... Thank you for your simplicity and eloquence....

 

[kcnalp]

Christianity is a works religion! James said so!

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[MatthewG]

If you do good works it is because you love God and you those works willingly by and through faith; but it doesn’t mean you try to make yourself perfect or holy taking away from Christ Jesus.

As human beings no amount of trying to be self righteous with God will fool Him.

Many people compare themselves to other people as those they are better than the other when all humans on this planet are on the same level ground compared to God who is holy, and we ourselves are not; and it is why we need Christ Jesus in our lives.

He is the one who makes us right with God; not the other way around of us trying to make ourselves right with God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

At the end of the day, Jesus said that "he that endures to the end shall be saved". If we neglect this principle, we will not be saved.

A Legalist just loves to latch on to a verse like this (“ Keep up that performance level , or be damned! “ they would like to say ) and yes, we must “ endure”. But the question becomes this:

“ Who is he that Endures ? it is he that Believes that Jesus is the Son Of God”