Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

[theefaith]

Nope. Misuse of scriptures yet again. No one deserve God’s mercy. Mercy is grace. Even those who were not merciful before their conversion, received God’s mercy.

Tell us, how have you considered yourself as merciful, that God in His mercy, gave His Son Jesus Christ to die for you?

Tong
R3679

Matt 5 blessed are the merciful, they shall obtain mercy

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Lord’s Prayer forgive us as we forgive

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

not deserved no, but as baptized member of Christ in his life of grace Jn 1:16-17 our actions become meritorious by grace

 

[theefaith]

That’s sad to hear.

It means you don’t see and experience your salvation yet, that you still hope for it.

Do you not have faith? Or do you not know what scriptures says faith is?

Tong
R3680

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[theefaith]

Apparently you are not reading out the passage as to what it says, but is reading into it what you say there. Again, misuse of scriptures.

Tong
R3681

Both faith and works thru grace as baptized members of Christ

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified byworks, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

You have faith alone Protestant colored scales spiritual blindness

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Are you referring to the church that do not have or call Peter “pope”?

Also, are you referring to the church who believes in the Jesus who said “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.”?

Call no man father


Typical fundamentalist misunderstandings!

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,


———-


Eph. 3:14-15 – every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

<<<Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?>>>

Go read and see for yourself.

1Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.3Therefore whatever they tell you [a]to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.5But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,7greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

In verse 8, who do you say are the “you”?

Tell us, what do you think is the reason why Jesus told them what He said in v. 8-10? Does that not tell you that such was a wrong thing to do?

Besides, did any of the apostles called Jesus “Father”? Were the apostles have the church call them “Father”?

Tong
R3682

 

[Taken]

not works alone
But faith and works with grace as members of Christ
Mark 16:16

He is our model in everything!

FAITH is paramount. Without Faith, a relationship with the Lord God can Not be established.

Repeating a string of Scriptures does nothing to convince me FAITH is not the Paramount Factor.

 

[Taken]

faith and baptism Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Faith is paramount. Baptism of the Holy Spirit follows after ones Confession of Faith.

 

[theefaith]

<<<Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?>>>

Go read and see for yourself.

1Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.3Therefore whatever they tell you [a]to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.5But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,7greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

In verse 8, who do you say are the “you”?

Tell us, what do you think is the reason why Jesus told them what He said in v. 8-10? Does that not tell you that such was a wrong thing to do?

Besides, did any of the apostles called Jesus “Father”? Were the apostles have the church call them “Father”?

Tong
R3682

peter!

isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

 

[theefaith]

FAITH is paramount. Without Faith, a relationship with the Lord God can Not be established.

Repeating a string of Scriptures does nothing to convince me FAITH is not the Paramount Factor.

you can’t enter a covenant by faith alone
Must be a ritual an outward sign of inward grace

 

[theefaith]

Faith is paramount. Baptism of the Holy Spirit follows after ones Confession of Faith.

don’t know any baptism of the HS
The Christian ritual of baptism is in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit
Matt 28:19
Maybe you’re referring to the sacrament of confirmation

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes their teaching. Such as that the teaching that the virgin Mary is the mother of God. None of the apostles taught that.

This brings to mind, the Bereans, who were of noble character, for they go to scriptures and examine what is preached to them, even that preached personally to them by the apostle Paul.

lk 1:43

Yes, that speaks of the blessed virgin Mary, as being the mother of Jesus according to the flesh.

Is Mary the mother of God or the mother of the man Jesus according to the flesh? Is James not a brother of the Lord? Why not have James be called the brother of God?

Does the mother God need a Savior?

Again a misuse of scriptures in Luke 1:43.

Tong
R3683

 

[theefaith]

Yes, that speaks of the blessed virgin Mary, as being the mother of Jesus according to the flesh.

Is Mary the mother of God or the mother of the man Jesus according to the flesh? Is James not a brother of the Lord? Why not have James be called the brother of God?

Does the mother God need a Savior?

Again a misuse of scriptures in Luke 1:43.

Tong
R3683

yes she has a savior her son Lk 1:47

perpetual Virgin

Isa 7:14 a son singular
Matt 1:21-23 one son on child
Nowhere does the Bible say anyone is a biological child of Mary except Jesus

 

[Tong2020]

paul was teaching baptized Christians

Yes. And he did not teach them that they were saved by grace through faith and some 7 sacraments.

Tong
R3684

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
On your first question, it is Paul.

On your second question, the passage does not say. We could only guess.

Now, what I was referring to is what Paul taught, that Christians are saved by grace through faith. On the other hand you teach something different here, that you are saved through faith and some 7 sacraments.

paul

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Too many misused scriptures.

Tong
R3685

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If not inspired, they could be wrong, right?

Again, please give reference scriptures about succession.

the new creation like the old creation is God breathed
Jn 20:21-23

Empty.

Can’t accept that they could be wrong even while you acknowledge they aren’t inspired like the apostles? Well, that’s really hard if you look at them when you are supposed to be looking at Jesus Christ instead, and should be all of the time.

Tong
R3686

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What you say there does not make much sense. And are you suggesting that when you do not obey Matt.28:19, you dishonor the name of Jesus?

What misunderstanding? Here’s what tou said and I quote

“the holy church founded by Christ on the apostles has always baptized with pure water and the spirit in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit and never faith alone or the spirit alone”

Please give reference scriptures where it speaks of one who was baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

the church teaches that’s enough the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42

Acts 2:44-47. Why did you not cite that together with Acts 2:42?

Besides, and going back to the issue, those you refer to in Acts as the church were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And as you seem to suggest, that should be a disobedience to Mt.28:19.

Tong
R3687

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I take that as saying that Jesus Christ is not your personal Lord and Savior.

Well, of course you can say that. Very common of false teachers like Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism.

So, if there are other Divine revelations such as succession perhaps, and there were writings on that, why do your church not include them in your Bible, the inspired words of God?

Interesting. Perhaps you can share that reference dictionary.

The scripture references does not say what you teach nor does it have the apostles there teaching that the church is necessary for salvation. Again, misuse of scriptures.

Peter leader stood up

acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

mattias successor of judas and if it applies to judus how much more to peter and the faithful apostles?

So, your church take Matthias as the successor of Judas Iscariot, the traitor, the son of perdition. So more then, as you pointed out, you also have a successor of every apostle after their death.

But after that, was there any other event /s of the same nature and purpose? Who was the first successor of Peter, of Andrew, of James, of John, of Philip, of Bartholomew, of Thomas, of Matthew, of James the son of Alphaeus, and of Lebbaeus, of Judas the son of James?

I wonder if you have a successor of Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Do you? If so, who was the first successor to Paul?

Can you tell us who are your present twelve apostles, successors each respectively of the original twelve apostles, and the present successor of Paul, if any?

And just to be clear and so we can leave this point, that you and then with the rest of your church, Jesus Christ is not your personal Lord and Savior.

Also, that you have not given a dictionary reference which have promise = sacrament. So please do.

Tong
R3688

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Nope. Misuse of scriptures yet again. No one deserve God’s mercy. Mercy is grace. Even those who were not merciful before their conversion, received God’s mercy.

Tell us, how have you considered yourself as merciful, that God in His mercy, gave His Son Jesus Christ to die for you?

Matt 5 blessed are the merciful, they shall obtain mercy

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Lord’s Prayer forgive us as we forgive

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

not deserved no, but as baptized member of Christ in his life of grace Jn 1:16-17 our actions become meritorious by grace

So you are saying that only applies to the baptized, this excluding those not baptized.

But have you not read that God will have mercy to whom He wills to have mercy? That would include all people, not only the baptized, don’t you accept?

Paul was not merciful when God converted him and gave him mercy. He was in fact the opposite, unmerciful.

Tong
R3689

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s sad to hear.

It means you don’t see and experience your salvation yet, that you still hope for it.

Do you not have faith? Or do you not know what scriptures says faith is?

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Well, you are just repeating yourself.

Am not going to go in circles with you on that. Sorry.

Tong
R3690

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Apparently you are not reading out the passage as to what it says, but is reading into it what you say there. Again, misuse of scriptures.

Both faith and works thru grace as baptized members of Christ

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified byworks, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Just adding to the growing number of misused scriptures.

Tong
R3691