Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

[theefaith]

Perhaps you want to describe what life you have with your church. But the issue is not that, but that salvation is by grace through faith and not by grace through faith plus the 7 sacraments that your church have.

You see, there are unbelievers to whom your church preach, right? What do you preach to them? Perhaps you’ll say the gospel. Can you tell us that gospel?

Tong
R3700

that’s a 1500 year late heresy
Council of Trent if anyone says you can be justified by faith alone let him be anathema

 

[theefaith]

If it is not faith alone for you and your church, then it will be with you and your church then. It would then be faith and works and the 7 sacraments then for you and your church.

I see that as a salvation not by grace. Perhaps you will say it is salvation by grace, but with works and the 7 sacraments. And that could not be. If you know what grace is, you will easily see that your church’s salvation could not be what you say it is.

Further, do you not know what scriptures says why salvation is by grace and not by another? Why salvation is of faith and not of anything else? I guess not for you say it is not faith alone. If not, then you ought to read scriptures.

Tong
R3701

it is by grace we are baptized into Christ members of Christ thru grace and faith and works are meritorious prayer virtues alms fasting
Jesus did not say if you fast and give alms but when you fast and get alms
James 5:16 .....The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[Tong2020]

Jn 8:32 jn 16:13
God established the church perfect Matt 16:18 divine revelation cannot be error or God would be the author of error

The point being is that they were not inspired like the original apostles and they could be wrong. That said, we need to examine if what they teach is in keeping with the truth revealed in scriptures.

You claim of new revelations. But is there anything else lacking in Christ that new revelations about God and the things of the Spirit of God, about truth, life, and the way to the Father still are being given? Then you might not be aware who Jesus Christ is and what He had done and revealed to His apostles Himself and through the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R3702

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Acts 2:44-47. Why did you not cite that together with Acts 2:42?

Besides, and going back to the issue, those you refer to in Acts as the church were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And as you seem to suggest, that should be a disobedience to Mt.28:19.

believed

You are not being clear and seems to want to be not so. Why?

Tong
R3703

 

[theefaith]

The point being is that they were not inspired like the original apostles and they could be wrong. That said, we need to examine if what they teach is in keeping with the truth revealed in scriptures.

You claim of new revelations. But is there anything else lacking in Christ that new revelations about God and the things of the Spirit of God, about truth, life, and the way to the Father still are being given? Then you might not be aware who Jesus Christ is and what He had done and revealed to His apostles Himself and through the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R3702

Same authority from Christ
Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (apostles or his church) until the end

 

[theefaith]

You are not being clear and seems to want to be not so. Why?

Tong
R3703

Where does it say on the name of Jesus

 

[Taken]

In Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Faith and baptism
1 cor 13:2 faith alone avails nothing
Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone

You forego trying to reason with you.
Gifts from God are offered BY God.
...Take them or Not.
Works "OF GOD" are offered BY God.
...Take them or Not.
* NOTHING pertaining to Gods "OFFERING TO A MAN".... and Gods WORKS of "FORGIVENESS, Salvation, (of ones soul), Sanctification, Justification, Covering of Sin, Freedom from Sin, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Receiving Gods Seed (a rebirth of mans natural spirit), Being Bodily Crucified with Christ, (bodily death), A MAN TAKING these OFFERINGS as a mans REASONABLE SERVICE , Being Risen Uncorrupted....(in the likeness of Christ).... Can be accomplished...WITHOUT FAITH.

A man receiving the Gift of Gods FAITH WITHOUT.......GODS WORKS...
IS DEAD....MOOT!

All day long men can RECEIVE THE GIFT OF "FAITH" from God.
Plainly Scripture teaches... .A MAN WHO "HEARS" the Word of God "RECEIVES" Gods Gift of FAITH.

Plainly Scripture teaches...Without Gods Works in a man...
Forgiveness, Soul Salvation, Bodily Death with Christ, Receiving the Holy Baptism of Gods Spirit, Gods Seed, to rebirth a mans spirit is a man WITHOUT GODS WORKS.

FAITH is a gift.
Works of God can be manifested IN A MAN...
Only after the man HAS received FAITH...
AND the man AGREES to RECEIVE/TAKE/HAVE...God effects OF HIS WORKS IN THE MAN.

It seems rather clear, you believe a MAN must DO WORKS, for his Salvation, Water Baptism and Quickening of his spirit to be accomplished.

* A mans Faith, WITHOUT Gods Works is DEAD.
Many men receive Gods Faith, and NEVER accept Receiving/ TAKING Gods Works.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, your church take Matthias as the successor of Judas Iscariot, the traitor, the son of perdition. So more then, as you pointed out, you also have a successor of every apostle after their death.

But after that, was there any other event /s of the same nature and purpose? Who was the first successor of Peter, of Andrew, of James, of John, of Philip, of Bartholomew, of Thomas, of Matthew, of James the son of Alphaeus, and of Lebbaeus, of Judas the son of James?

I wonder if you have a successor of Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Do you? If so, who was the first successor to Paul?

Can you tell us who are your present twelve apostles, successors each respectively of the original twelve apostles, and the present successor of Paul, if any?

And just to be clear and so we can leave this point, that you and then with the rest of your church, Jesus Christ is not your personal Lord and Savior.

Also, that you have not given a dictionary reference which have promise = sacrament. So please do.

the office of apostle of judus is still a valid office as scripture says his bishoprick let another man take vs 17 and 20

Timothy is Paul’s successor
His spiritual son 1 Tim 1:2

peter is Linus

dictionary
(in the Christian Church) a religious ceremony or ritual regarded as imparting divine grace, such as baptism, the Eucharist and (in the Roman Catholic and many Orthodox Churches) penance and the anointing of the sick.

How about the other apostles? They have no successors? Why?

Was Timothy, whom you claim as Paul’s successor, chosen as was Matthias? Was Linus also chosen like so? I would guess that only the successor of Peter got to be called Pope, right? It makes me wonder why John or any of the other surviving apostles when Peter died, did not become Pope.

So with the dictionary meaning you provided, clearly you have not shown that promise = sacrament. So, why do you take promise = sacrament?

And it seems you can’t tell us here the present successors of the other apostles, of Judas Iscariot, of Paul, of John, and the rest? But at least you claim Timothy as a successor of Paul. And perhaps, somewhere down in time, that was no longer important, right? Not as important as was then when the apostleship of Judas Iscariot must be filled up.

Well……there goes.

Tong
R3704

 

[Taken]

there is a difference between Johns baptism and Christian baptism

The common denominator IS WATER!

A new covenant was being introduced.
* Hebrews and Tribesmen repeatedly Offered Animal Blood for the remission of Sins.
^ That became corrupt.

* John Baptised with Water for the remission of sin. Handy, since;
...Animal Blood tradition had become corrupt.
...And not long after the TEMPLE fell into rubble....(and the Temple was the only place to sacrifice Animal Blood)

* Soon thereafter the teaching was revealed... It is Jesus' Blood spilled, and given FOR the Remission of Sins...mans freewill to believe it, accept it...or not.

* Additionally the teaching was revealed...Confession of a man heartfully Believing, and Accepting Jesus' Blood for remission of SIN...is HOW a man RECEIVES his Forgiveness and souls Salvation.

* It is Gods Works of Baptism of His Holy Spirit, entering a man, by the mans freewill agreement, to give the man Gods SEED, to rebirth the mans spirit (born again).

Works of a man are completely separate from the Works of God, necessary for a man who HAS RECEIVED Faith, (by Gods Works to be forgiven, saved, born again, AND KEPT forgiven, saved, born again FOREVER, BY GODS POWER....His Works...(not mans).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So you are saying that only applies to the baptized, this excluding those not baptized.

But have you not read that God will have mercy to whom He wills to have mercy? That would include all people, not only the baptized, don’t you accept?

Paul was not merciful when God converted him and gave him mercy. He was in fact the opposite, unmerciful.

You tell me why it’s there?

What is it?

Tong
R3705

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Is that so? No wonder then.

What verse says so?

You really have not read baptism with the Holy Spirit in scriptures?

Have you not read what John the baptist told his disciples concerning baptism with the Holy Spirit? He said the he baptizes them with water but the Christ will baptize them with the Holy Spirit. How do you not know of those scriptures?

Even Peter, whom you claim to be a Pope or the first Pope of your church, said “John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”. Do you not know that?

Tong
R3706

 

[amigo de christo]

Let the wonderous and glorious Lord be praised . Ye are saved by grace through faith in Christ . LET THE LORD BE PRAISED .
It is a gift . Cling to the LORD and learn all things HE did and taught .
For many follow another jesus and i am telling us that jesus is not gonna be able to save them
from the wrath the ONE TRUE JESUS does unleash .
Bibles must be opened and from hearts as children we must learn afresh and anew .
For the delusion cannot be stopped . The doorway unto the whore grows very broad and many there be which enter in at her chambers .
Resist Her , through FAITH IN CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

In context please.

Here’s a statement in scriptures that would help the reader get the point of that ~ For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

A child of God who have a body without the spirit, is dead. That does not make him no longer a child of God. The point being, he is at that state unprofitable.

What does it profit if someone have a body but does not have works? What does it profit, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?

Tong
R3695

Tong please dont sell out now my friend . But this is not true . I once had dead faith . And many today do .
I was lost and in darkness , yet i had enough head knowledge to still say JESUS is the savoir . But i was lost and in darkness .
Many still are today . Dead faith is NO FAITH . Take that to your grave my friend . YE SHALL KNOW THEM
not by their lips , but by their fruits . BY THEIR FRUITS .
The lips of a true believer would say JESUS is the only way , but their fruits would match .

 

[Curtis]

Nope. That was not an assumption. It is truth. Abraham had faith even from the time God gave him promise in Gen. 12:1-3.

But the main point is not the when God accounted righteousness to Abraham, but that, it is faith that is accounted by God for righteousness.

Let us learn and keep in mind, it is faith and not works, that God accounts for righteousness, not works. That while works shows our faith, it is however not that which is accounted for righteousness. Faith is.

Tong
R3697

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So explain romans 4. In context, as both say the opposite,

ans romans 4 is not law. Abraham never had the law so we can not use that as an excuse.

Why did James and paul contradict each other. Or did they?

 

[amigo de christo]

So explain romans 4. In context, as both say the opposite,

ans romans 4 is not law. Abraham never had the law so we can not use that as an excuse.

Why did James and paul contradict each other. Or did they?

They did not contradict one another . Not one bit . TRUTH IS we are saved soley by grace , by FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
James is just letting folks know that there are many , LIKE I ONCE WAS , who though we said we believed
WE followed darkness . My fruit was rotted and full of sin . Thus my faith was NOT REAL , NOT TRUE .
FOR WHEN GOD truly does draw one to CHRIST , yes , marvel not no man can come to me lest the father draw him ,
They are indwelt with the SPIRIT and at that point a whole new heart , whole new desires are BORN , by GOD , within that man .
NOW LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED . YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS .

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So the mother of God has a savior. Why? Obviously she have sin. So the mother of God have to be saved by God, else God’s mother will end up in hell.

no she was preserved from original sin and all sin by a miracle of God in virtue of the merits Her divine son.

Jesus cannot have a sinner for a mother cos he is our salvation Lk 2:30 a good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree a sinner cannot bear hood fruit or our salvation

Well that’s what your teachers taught you, not Jesus Christ nor His chosen apostles.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Now, the mother of God have a beginning, but not God. God existed before His mother. The mother of God had a husband. She also have a father and a mother, both of which have sinned as well, and so are sinners. The mother of God worships her Son.

Not mother or source of the divine nature
But mother Jesus Christ who is God hence mother of God

That is clearly misleading, right? Why did your your church, after only centuries later from the time of the apostles, have to give her that title? Your church could have simply called her the mother of Jesus Christ. So, it was all for what?

Tong2020 said: ↑
Did the apostles teach to pray to any one else but God? Did not the apostles teach that there is one mediator between God and man? Not blessed Mary, but Jesus Christ.

Why pray to blessed Mary? Why pray to men who are not mediators even? Was these ever taught by the apostles? None that scriptures have and taught either.

Well……

Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!

Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!


Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us they Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!


Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Mary have a throne? The throne of grace? Why is she a Queen? Where is that coming from? Certainly not found in scriptures. So many strange doctrines men have made out from scriptures. Short of making the blessed and humble virgin Mary to be a goddess. And this progresses over the years. Who knows what strange doctrines will men come up with in the coming years. And this, all for what?

Mary is your advocate? My advocate is Jesus Christ.

Tong
R3707

 

[amigo de christo]

Ps , dont anyone follow pope francis , nor let anyone else do this either .
FOLLOW CHRIST and learn the biblical JESUS Well .

 

[theefaith]

The common denominator IS WATER!

A new covenant was being introduced.
* Hebrews and Tribesmen repeatedly Offered Animal Blood for the remission of Sins.
^ That became corrupt.

* John Baptised with Water for the remission of sin. Handy, since;
...Animal Blood tradition had become corrupt.
...And not long after the TEMPLE fell into rubble....(and the Temple was the only place to sacrifice Animal Blood)

* Soon thereafter the teaching was revealed... It is Jesus' Blood spilled, and given FOR the Remission of Sins...mans freewill to believe it, accept it...or not.

* Additionally the teaching was revealed...Confession of a man heartfully Believing, and Accepting Jesus' Blood for remission of SIN...is HOW a man RECEIVES his Forgiveness and souls Salvation.

* It is Gods Works of Baptism of His Holy Spirit, entering a man, by the mans freewill agreement, to give the man Gods SEED, to rebirth the mans spirit (born again).

Works of a man are completely separate from the Works of God, necessary for a man who HAS RECEIVED Faith, (by Gods Works to be forgiven, saved, born again, AND KEPT forgiven, saved, born again FOREVER, BY GODS POWER....His Works...(not mans).

Glory to God,
Taken

John’s was only a preparation for the real baptism in which we become members of Christ in grace where faith and works are meritorious
James 5:16 prayer of a righteous man avails much

 

[theefaith]

What is it?

Tong
R3705

The beatitudes what are they
Notice it does not say blessed are those who have faith alone, they are justified and shall be saved!