The apostles do not define truth. They are witnesses of the truth and preacher of the truth, truth that was taught revealed to them by Jesus Christ and the Spirit of truth.
Tong
R3770
Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...
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Tong
R3770
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And now a word from JESUS Himself unto the original apostels .
GO ye into all the world , baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son and Holy Ghost
and teaching them to observe , TO DO , all things that i have taught you .
Careful how ye hear . Unto those who hear from HIM they shall be hearers and doers , loving and embracing upon the heart
every thing He ever taught , Just as did the original apostels . For the SPIRIT is our guide
and the Spirit does not contradict TRUTH . IT IS TRUTH and leads us only into truth .
But beware of men for many deceivers do abound and have decieved many and are busy deceiving and be deceived .
They are always learning , always instructing , always speaking elegant and using words to twist doctrine .
heed them not . HEED and FOLLOW the Great Shepard of the sheep . Learn the biblical Christ well
Learn the letters from the apostels well , learn the bible well .
GO ye into all the world , baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son and Holy Ghost
and teaching them to observe , TO DO , all things that i have taught you .
Careful how ye hear . Unto those who hear from HIM they shall be hearers and doers , loving and embracing upon the heart
every thing He ever taught , Just as did the original apostels . For the SPIRIT is our guide
and the Spirit does not contradict TRUTH . IT IS TRUTH and leads us only into truth .
But beware of men for many deceivers do abound and have decieved many and are busy deceiving and be deceived .
They are always learning , always instructing , always speaking elegant and using words to twist doctrine .
heed them not . HEED and FOLLOW the Great Shepard of the sheep . Learn the biblical Christ well
Learn the letters from the apostels well , learn the bible well .
Really
Acts 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
After you explain why ANY non saving works are counted as debt.
The royal law fulfills the love command that Jesus said is a new command, the law of love, which fulfills ALL THE LAW - which is not the Ten Commandments - but has replaced the Decalogue in the new covenant.
If you keep the two love commands you keep some of the ten commands, but for a completely different reason - however the two love commands far exceed the Decalogue in scope.
The ten commands as they pertain to our relationship with other people, are negative commands, that only limit 6 kinds of bad behavior, and they were kept out of fear of punishment - they had the death penalty by stoning, for breaking them.
There’s also not one drop of love for your neighbor commanded in the Decalogue.
Whereas the two love commands are positive commands, not negative ones.
If you love your neighbor as yourself, it’s true that you won’t kill him, steal from him, or lie against him, etc, and therefore in effect keep 6 of the ten command limitations on bad behavior - BUT if you love your neighbor as yourself, you’ll go far beyond a mere six negative commands in what harm you WONT do to your neighbor.
You won’t gossip about him for one example - and there’s no OT command that says thou shalt not gossip about your neighbor.
In fact you won’t do ANY of the things that would do some kind of harm to your neighbor, which far exceeds a mere 6 limitations.
Jesus didn’t say, love does none of the 6 things to harm your neighbor prohibited by the ten commands, thus love fulfills the law.
He said instead, that love does NO HARM to your neighbor, so love fulfills the law.
Get the difference?
The two love commands go far beyond the ten commands in how well you treat your fellow man - instead of limiting any harm you’d do to your neighbor to six, if you love him you won’t do ANY HARM to him in any way, shape or form.
And the two love commands also go beyond not doing any kind of harm to your neighbor - if you love him as yourself, besides not harming them, you will HELP him in every kind of way.
If you love your neighbor you’ll mow his lawn when he breaks his leg, for just one example.
If you’re just keeping the Decalogue, you can do things against him not prohibited by the 6 limitations to bad behavior in the Decalogue - and ignore any needs he has such as needing his lawn mowed if he breaks a leg, and still pat yourself on the back for keeping the Decalogue to a tee.
That’s why the two love commands are far superior to the very limited ten commands, and they’re kept for a very different motive than fear of being stoned to death under the law.
Thus you really can’t equate the ten commands to the two love commands, nor claim that the two merely restate the ten, when in reality they are far different, as different as night and day.
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Yes, really.
Why do you keep quoting scriptures only to misuse them? If you quote scriptures to refute what I said, quite scriptures that does.
Take this opportunity to explain how the quoted passages refutes what I said.
Tong
R3772
Tell us, how does your patience save you?
Jesus Christ is the Savior, not anyone else nor anything else. There is nothing in man not anything that he can do that could save himself.
Tong
R3773
You seem to not really understand what Romans 4:4 is saying, not even with your qualification of the works there.
That even becomes evident in that you totally dropped the part of my post that showed you that James, in James 2 was talking even about the works of the law of Moses, which refuted your contention that what Paul said in Romans 4:1-8 is relevant to what James was saying in James 2 regarding the matter of being justified by works.
For your sake then, let me answer my own questions for you.
Romans 4:4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
When one works, he earns a wage (misthos, Gk.) for his work. The wages that Paul speaks about is that which is earned by works. Now Paul teaches that such wages are not counted as grace, as some contends they are. They are not. What they are, are debts accounted to him who works.
Now, taking the works spoken there by Paul as the works of the law of Moses, what are the wages accounted as debt to the one who works? Is it justification? Is it life, even eternal life? If so, then justification and eternal life is something that a man could earn as wage by the works of the law. But Paul elsewhere taught that that is not so with the works of the law. He also taught that salvation is by grace. And here he teaches that works, even the wages of working the works of the law of Moses, are not counted as grace.
You see, good deeds, including even the works of the law of Moses, are good works. For the law of God is good. And any one who does good deeds are justified by works. Only that, they are justified by works before man. But are they necessarily justified before God? So that, by the good deeds of man, he had justified himself before God and have for wages, his salvation or eternal life?
I contend not so. For Paul had clearly shown in Romans 4:1-8, that it is God who justifies, not by works but by faith. He had given Abraham’s justification as an example, who was justified by God, not by works nor by works of the law of Moses (not yet given at the time of Abraham), but by faith. It was for faith that righteousness was accounted by God to him. By giving Abraham as an example, Paul made a lot of points. That he was not referring to works as only to the works of the law of Moses, but to works in general. And that what is accounted as righteousness by God to a man is not works but faith. Paul in Romans 4:5 states that truth saying, “But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,” and continues to speak of this righteousness in v.6-8 saying, “
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Such righteousness is an imputed righteousness, apart from works. Now that’s grace, not wage nor debt. This runs consistent with the truth about the salvation of God, that is, salvation is by grace through faith.
So why add works to that? Adding works runs contrary to grace, for as Paul taught, works, its wages are not counted as grace, but as debt.
One final point, Paul in Romans 4:2 explains that if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast. But then, Paul said that salvation is not by works so that no one could boast. Seems contradictory, but is not. For indeed, Abraham was justified by works as James said, and he had something to boast as Paul said. But Paul made clear about that boasting. He said, “he has something to boast about, but not before God.” If not before God, before whom then? That’s right, before man.
So, you see, there are two justifications of a man, one before man and the other before God. The former as being declared righteous before man and earned by the man, the latter as being declared righteous before God and imputed to the man by God.
Hope that helps and shed light regarding James 2:24.
Tong
R3774
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TheslightestID
Active Member
You sound as if you don't believe the Commandments are kept out of fear today.
The commandments are kept out of fear of punishment today, and rightfully so, because the penealty is the second death/hell. Following is just one instance of scripture containing a few commandments, and their penalty.
1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.
replaced really?
Still a commandment!
eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.
If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.
James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Works?
matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Scripture is beyond clear that the two love commands have superseded the old ten commands.
The ten are only kept today by those who have bought into Ellen G. Whites claim, centuries after the fact, that believers are still required to keep the ceremonial day of rest command, from the ended Decalogue.
TheslightestID
Active Member
[/QUOTE]The ten are only kept today by those who have bought into Ellen G. Whites claim, centuries after the fact, that believers are still required to keep the ceremonial day of rest command, from the ended Decalogue.[/QUOTE]
I'm not 7th day, and what you say there is not true. A few of the 10 will get us put in jail or worse, if we don't keep them. As far as the Sabbath, I can't find it now, but there is scripture that pretty well says, not keeping the Sabbath, is not a damnable son, but we shouldn't judge those who do or try to teach them not to.
Are you saying Christ was wrong when he stated we need to keep the commandments in order to get to heaven in the scripture I just showed you?
And then there is the following and the bible is full of such scripture:
Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It's undeniable the Commandments are still in affect.
Mathew 5:17
Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the
prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
How much Clearer can Jesus make it?
I'm not 7th day, and what you say there is not true. A few of the 10 will get us put in jail or worse, if we don't keep them. As far as the Sabbath, I can't find it now, but there is scripture that pretty well says, not keeping the Sabbath, is not a damnable son, but we shouldn't judge those who do or try to teach them not to.
Are you saying Christ was wrong when he stated we need to keep the commandments in order to get to heaven in the scripture I just showed you?
And then there is the following and the bible is full of such scripture:
Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It's undeniable the Commandments are still in affect.
Mathew 5:17
Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the
prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
How much Clearer can Jesus make it?
Apparently sabbath day keepers are unaware that if they are still in effect, the punish of death by stoning would still in effect
TheslightestID
Active Member
You didnt answer my question, was Christ wrong when he said in order to get to heaven, we must keep the Sabbath?
Also, did Christ come to fulfill the law or to do away with it?
Pretty simple questions.
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