And you post to bury the issue under discussion. Well,…
Regarding what you posted here, that perhaps affects you, as you had bind yourself to that. But that does not affect me at all nor is bound by it.
Tong
R3777
Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...
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Regarding what you posted here, that perhaps affects you, as you had bind yourself to that. But that does not affect me at all nor is bound by it.
Tong
R3777
Christ didn’t say one word about keeping the sabbath as a salvation requirement - and your problem is that the warning in the new covenant that if you make any part of the law of Moses, which includes the Decalogue, you’ve fallen from g ace and made Christ of no effect unto you.
TheslightestID
Active Member
Christ said to keep the commandments. You still didn't answer the questions, but here is another:
Is keeping the Sabbath one of the commandments?
The fact you're not answering the questions speaks loudly, and not in your favor.
I know. Arent you paying attention? I said the following in an earlier reply to you on this thread.
And your comment about my falling from grace. First, I get it, when ones is losing a debate so badly, they are liabe to come up with all kinds of nonsense as defense.
Secondly, prove that accusation is biblical.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
They forget the law of Moses did not anual the abrahamic covenant. In which Abraham was told that all nations would be saved by the seed which would come. And Abraham believed. Just like we are saved
Very simple answers.
Jesus never ever said to keep the sabbath for salvation, period.
And Paul makes it clear that the law is not in effect for Christians, but IS IN EFFECT for the unconverted, ungodly, sinners, and the unrighteous.
Thus the law is both in effect today, and not in effect today, simultaneously, depending on which group you’re in - the Christian, or ungodly group - as I will show.
And it’s scripture, not me, that clearly says the Decalogue is the covenant on two tables of stone - and scripture that clearly states the old covenant has ended, replaced by a better covenant founded on better promises - and that the Two love commands now fulfills ALL the law and the prophets - so it’s undeniable that both the ten commands AND the law of Moses, have now ended (for Christians).
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Jesus Himself said the two love commands fulfill all the law.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.
Therefore, Jesus never ever restated the 4th command, and the ones he stated, are kept by keeping the two love commands.
There’s no day keeping command in the two love commands, either, which is why sabbatarians want to hang onto the Decalogue so badly.
What so many people don’t realize is, the law of Moses is not meant for the righteous but for the ungodly, for sinners, for murderers, etc.
Thus the law is both in effect for the ungodly, but not in effect for Christians.
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for THE UNGODLY and for SINNERS , for UNHOLY and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Christians are not ungodly anymore, but are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, thus we’ve died to the law.
Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have DIED TO THE LAW through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, AROUSED BY THE LAW, were at work in our members to bear fruit for DEATH.
Rom 7:6 But now we are RELEASED from the law, having DIED to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the NEW way of the SPIRIT and not in the OLD way of the written code.
See 2 Corinthians 3, which calls the ten commands given to Moses on the mountain the letter that kills, but in contrast the Spirit gives life.
For Christians only, (not the ungodly) Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross and took it out of our way:
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And the law of Moses, as concerning Gods people - not the ungodly - was temporary, until faith came.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, UNTIL the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made (Jesus Christ), and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:23 But BEFORE faith came, we were KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore THE LAW was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But AFTER that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.
And Christians have the fruit of the spirit, instead of the letter of the law, which is why for us THERE IS NO LAW, of Moses for us:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW.
Paul comes right out and says, he is not under the law of Moses, but IS under the law of Christ ( the law of love aka the two love commands).
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though NOT being myself UNDER THE LAW) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but UNDER the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
In conclusion:
1. Jesus nowhere said the sabbath is still in effect. and especially never made keeping it a condition for salvation.
2. The law hasn’t ended for the ungodly and unconverted, but believers have died to the law.
TheslightestID
Active Member
Except that has nothing to do with the questions I asked of you.
Your lack of answers prove you are aware of the truth, because the answers prove what I say is true, the very reason you refuse to answer.
I've no reason to believe you will ever answer, and every reason to believe you will continue to evade admitting the truth, so I think we are done here.
The ten are only kept today by those who have bought into Ellen G. Whites claim, centuries after the fact, that believers are still required to keep the ceremonial day of rest command, from the ended Decalogue.[/QUOTE]
I'm not 7th day, and what you say there is not true. A few of the 10 will get us put in jail or worse, if we don't keep them. As far as the Sabbath, I can't find it now, but there is scripture that pretty well says, not keeping the Sabbath, is not a damnable son, but we shouldn't judge those who do or try to teach them not to.
Are you saying Christ was wrong when he stated we need to keep the commandments in order to get to heaven in the scripture I just showed you?
And then there is the following and the bible is full of such scripture:
Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It's undeniable the Commandments are still in affect.
Mathew 5:17
Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the
prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
How much Clearer can Jesus make it?[/QUOTE]
The two love commands is what the NT is always talking about, not the Decalogue.
I'm not 7th day, and what you say there is not true. A few of the 10 will get us put in jail or worse, if we don't keep them. As far as the Sabbath, I can't find it now, but there is scripture that pretty well says, not keeping the Sabbath, is not a damnable son, but we shouldn't judge those who do or try to teach them not to.
Are you saying Christ was wrong when he stated we need to keep the commandments in order to get to heaven in the scripture I just showed you?
And then there is the following and the bible is full of such scripture:
Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It's undeniable the Commandments are still in affect.
Mathew 5:17
Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the
prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
How much Clearer can Jesus make it?[/QUOTE]
The two love commands is what the NT is always talking about, not the Decalogue.
TheslightestID
Active Member
I'm not 7th day, and what you say there is not true. A few of the 10 will get us put in jail or worse, if we don't keep them. As far as the Sabbath, I can't find it now, but there is scripture that pretty well says, not keeping the Sabbath, is not a damnable son, but we shouldn't judge those who do or try to teach them not to.
Are you saying Christ was wrong when he stated we need to keep the commandments in order to get to heaven in the scripture I just showed you?
And then there is the following and the bible is full of such scripture:
Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It's undeniable the Commandments are still in affect.
Mathew 5:17
Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the
prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
How much Clearer can Jesus make it?[/QUOTE]
The two love commands is what the NT is always talking about, not the Decalogue.[/QUOTE]
Jesus said to follow the commandments, and you clearly disagree with him, even with the scripture right before you....that is referred to as denial.
Except they claim the sabbath command and the law was in effect from the 6th day of creation and that Abraham kept the sabbath.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this is salvation by works, paul rejected this theory when he said if it is opf grace it is not of works. And also how we were saved by our works of righteousness which we did but his mercy.
Is this works
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Does a person who repented and came to faith in Christ, born of him and given eternal life not do this?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
actually curtis i think you need to replace one word .
So lets redo this .
Scripture is beyond clear that the TWO commandents ............FufillL THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW .
IF we truly have the love that come from GOD . we steal NOT , we LIE NOT , we ................SEE HOW IT FULLFILLS the law
automatically . It works no ill to its neighbor . GOD really did come to make a new covenant .
AND that covenant PUT the law in our hearts . THE LOVE that comes from GOD has us walking Righteously and not trangressing .
Its automatic . And its given by GOD . WE no longer look to the law as though doing the law Saves us . NOPE .
ANY that does that , HAS FALLEN FROM GRACE . BUT we dont trangress either . NO LOVE that comes FROM GOD
would trangress GOD HIMSELF . IT wont make void His law . As for meats drinks , days , cermonies
cleansings , those things . NO Longer needed . JESUS TOOK that and MADE HIMSELF our sacrfice . We dont need to
go buy pigeons or goats to cover our sins . JUST CONFESS and Forsake them . JESUS is faithful
WE dont need to go to a high preist to have our sins covered by His sacrfice . JESUS IS THE HIGH PREIST
and HIS BLOOD has washed us clean . BUT we dont willfully omit and make void the law through grace .
An example . IN the law it is written that man shall not lie with man . WE cant now say , OH THAT DONT Apply no more .
ANY LOVE that comes FROM GOD , AINT GONNA SUDDENLY ACCEPT MAN WITH MAN . SEE what i mean .
Now i already said , meats , drinks , days , ceremonies etc ,
As for me i see every day alike . Some dont . With those i worship as they do , SO LONG as they dont judge others.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
They sure do . For the love of GOD has been shed abroad upon their hearts by the HOLY GHOST .
Lambs follow THE KING . But a strangers voice , the voice of a harlot or any other contrary voice , LAMBS DONT HEED NOR FOLLOW .
JESUS has the lambs . HE TRULY DOES . HE KEEPS our steps from those directions and has put a love for truth upon our hearts .
Now , let all that has breath , leap up if you are able to leap , and praise the glorious LORD .
Add this:
Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Since Jesus Himself said some only believe for a while, and fall away, and since Paul warns believers to examine themselves to see if they’re in the faith, or are reprobates, and since Paul wrote that he has to subjugate his flesh daily, lest he himself end up a reprobate after preaching to others, I’d say YES a believer can fall, is the obvious answer.
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