Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?
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I would disagree with 2. To say that "by faith in ONLY the death/burial/resurrection ...." fails to acknowledge the many colorful ways the Gospel is given in the New Testament. For example, Paul's presentation of the Gospel to the Philippian jailer was simply "believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved." Paul does not even mention death, or burial, or resurrection. You could argue from silence but that kind of evidence is just that, silent.
"I would disagree with 2. To say that "by faith in ONLY the death/burial/resurrection"
Do you reject the saving Gospel that Christ taught to Paul ?
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
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Philippian Jailer Acts 16 is prior to Gal 1:11-12
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Brakelite
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And that word, iniquity, the Greek ἀνομία anomia , literally means without law. The Christian world is filled with those who believe the law is no longer a Christian thing. It's Jewish they say. It's old covenant they say. We don't need the law to inform us on how to love. Mmmm. The acceptance of LGBT in our congregations, our pulpits, even in our church manuals, days they certainly do need to the law to inform them, not to love, but how to love. Not only how to love each other, but especially how to love God...
"If ye love Me, keep My commandments".
“3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. ”
1 John 2:3-6 KJV
And yes, you are absolutely correct. The NC doesn't remove the law, it creates in us, through the Cross of Christ, the capacity to obey the law. Jesus came to save us from our sins. He has done that through the power of the cross by making us righteous. Declaring us righteous legally by imputed righteousness, and making us righteous forensically through "creating in us a clean heart and renewing a right Spirit in us".
Is that YES, you reject the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 saving Gospel or NO ?
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"I would disagree with 2. To say that "by faith in ONLY the death/burial/resurrection"
Do you reject the saving Gospel that Christ taught to Paul ?
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
Yes sir.
I believe the early church was correct.
Why?
Because it followed exactly what the NT teaches --- thus what the Apostles taught and the writers of the NT (mostly Apostles).
They did NOT teach that baptism is a symbol.
They taught that it's salvific in nature.
Even if we don't understand why,,,we must accept what the Apostles taught.
It WASHES us,,,just as water washes the body.
1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
It would seem, from Romans 6:4, that we cannot really walk in the newness of life without baptism.
Apparently Ezra, you like to limit your knowledge.
Which is exactly what you're doing.
The early Christians understood baptism to be a seal.
Let me ask you something:
What was the seal/sign of the Abrahamic Covenant?
What is the seal/sign of the New Covenant?
Use ONLY the bible, as you like to do.
I'll provide scripture after you reply.
Faith saves us immediately.
And HOW do we receive the Holy Spirit?
(the indwelling)
Why did the believers in the NT have to be baptized?
Acts 2:41
They received the word.
They wre already saved.
But they also had to be baptized.
Ephesians states that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.
As I've asked,,,HOW do we receive the Holy Spirit?
John said HIS baptism was for repentence...
One coming after him would baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit.
In all of the bible....baptize always meant with water.
People add water Ezra, because this does not have to be repeated each and every time a writer speaks of salvation.
If it is mentioned even only 2 times,,,it will be sufficient...
ALL verses make up the NT, not only the ones we personally like
The NT explicitely states that baptism saves:
Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Acts 2:37-38
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is received at baptism.
Jesus taught what was necessary.
He didn't teach affirmations.
The only affirmation Jesus taught is that we are to obey Him.
He told the Apostles to baptize
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jesus told the Apostles to obey everything He commanded.
He commanded them to baptize.
Jesus coupled this with:
make disciples
obedience
So...Jesus said that to be saved we must
be a disciple
obey
be baptized
That's what scripture says Ezra.
WHAT is my job Ezra?
To post scripture to complete the OP's statement?
No sir.
That is HIS job....not mine.
Maybe before speaking,,,, you should go back and see what was being spoken of?
A few legit questions not for the sake of argument;
How does one becomes sealed and knows they are sealed? what about the book of life?, some scripture say a name can be removed from the book of life?
you hold on to that false teaching . born of the spirit its a spiritual birth .the spirit of God indwells us the moment we get saved.. he then seals us places ownership upon us aka the earnest of the spirit.. the infilling comes through growth . thats all i need to say.. thats all i am going to say.
maybe you dont know what i have read .. just maybe your strange fire simply does not compute
I am not really able to decipher what you're trying to say with this post. your quotes and comments don't seem to offer anything I would deny.
If Paul taught it, I believe it.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Begin … (ignore the Mind) who knows best WHAT the HEART ( ie. Natural spirit of man) Believes?
A- that man AND God.
Who Offers… blessings, gifts, rewards… for an Eternal Life With God?
A-ONLY the Lord God Himself.
Who KNOWS “IF” a man has Truthfully in his spirit (ie Hearts belief) , is Prepared, Ready, Willing TO TRUST, Yield, Consider, Take Gods Offering? (OR Not)
A-The man himself AND God.
An individual man “Knows”…
By, through, of…Heartful Believing, Faith, Trusting IN Gods Word and His Offering…and calling on the Lords Name… with (Heartful…spirit To Spirit) confession of his belief and Acceptance of Gods Offering.
In short…it is an exclusive experience Between ONE individuals “spirit” and Gods Spirit…
And thereafter… that individual has a phenomenal (strange, unnatural) calming, soothing like, relationship with God, like no other explainable relationship between two entities. It’s a 24-7 anytime, anywhere relationship…for ANY issue / circumstance.
(A weird sort of 24-7 WELCOMED being Observed by God…
While we challenge and discuss being watched 24-7 by governments, technology.
(God did reveal men would be doing things he does!)
In short … your question…How?
True Heartful Agreement to Submit …
* By giving your word like man to man does.
By
* Wait…By giving your body unto Death to God, to affirm your word…Yes.
Two Books of Life…
Gods Book of Life…
* Contains Every NAME of every person, WAS, IS, SHALL be Alive…
… if they be NOT saved, ie Bodily Die for bings AGAINST God…and
Their name is Blotted out… (shall not be saved).
The Lambs Book of Life… began as a Blank Book… Names ARE ADDED as men (while Alive in their flesh)… confess to the Lord their True Heartful belief, and willingness to laid down their Bodily Life For the Lord God…( ie Crucifixion WITH Jesus’ body and Saved, by, through, of Christ Jesus,)
They called, IN Christ.
Their name can Never be “blotted out”.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ezra...
if you're incapable of discussing baptism due to your lack of knowledge on the subject...
that's fine with me.....and I'm referring to your post no. 110
As to your above post....
I'm expecting an apology from you.
You broke into a conversation with another poster...
read ONLY what he posted...
and you did NOT go back to find out what HIS post was about.
DO IT NOW.
And then please come back and apologize..as you should.
I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for providing scripture for someones's OP.
If that is not clear to you..
then you don't understand how OP's work
or how Forums work.
FIND OUT...
and then come back and apologize.
Oh... And the above sounds like you believe in OSAS.
A heretical teaching that was NEVER taught by the Apostles.
Is it any wonder you don't understand baptism either.
The entire NT is not understood by you.
@LoveYeshua
I've found Taken to be a very mysterious person.
However, what this person (it's a she) is trying to say, in their very own personal way,
is that we are saved NOW
but receive this salvation AT DEATH
since we cannot know if we will persevere.
She is actually 100% correct and I agree fully.
IF I have NOT understood her correctly,
after years of reading her posts....
she can correct me.
Sorry Ezra,,,
I can't help it.
Some have their theology so lopsided as to not make any sense.
Look at what you've said above:
"WE ARE INDWELT AT THE MOMENT OF SALVATION"
"THE INFILLING COMES THROUGH GROWTH"
So,,, being indwelt is not the same as infilling.
So, I'm RIGHT that we need baptizing for what YOU call the "INFILLING".
Funny stuff going on in the land of Christianity.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes… “IF WE” are they who were “crucified bodily with Christ…
A bodily death accounted.
Thereafter “they live IN Christ Jesus’ risen Body”…. Called IN Christ….until their own body is risen up (rapture).
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
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