Scofield Bible Damage and Atheist Arguments

[PGS11]

It all happened at once.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Yom, in this context, means a 24 hour day. Why?
Scripture confirms it after each day of events. Are you blind?
Vs. 5
God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

>> Would you also like to change the meanings light and darkness, evening and morning too?

God defines the length, equivalent to adding an eve ing and morning. "And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

... "And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
... "And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day... and so on.

You're quoting “evening and morning” like it proves 24-hour clock time — but that only works if you ignore everything else about Hebrew language, ancient cosmology, and Genesis itself.

Let’s walk through what your argument misses:

“Yom” (יוֹם) in Hebrew is a flexible word — it can mean a 12-hour daylight period, a full 24-hour day, or an undefined era or epoch. That’s not a fringe theory — that’s standard biblical Hebrew, recognized in every lexicon and by every credible Hebrew scholar.

Evening and morning are literary markers, not clock measurements. Genesis 1 is written in poetic parallelism, not in scientific prose. The “evening and morning” formula is structure, not stopwatch. This is common in Hebrew storytelling — it’s not a timestamp, it’s a rhythm.

And here’s the nail in your 24-hour coffin:

The sun and moon weren’t even created until Day 4 (Genesis 1:14–19).
So how are you measuring 24-hour days without a sun to define a “day”?

The ancient Hebrews weren’t dumb. They weren’t thinking “24-hour solar cycles” on Day 1 — they were describing divine order emerging from chaos, using a repeated pattern for literary flow:

Evening (chaos/obscurity) to morning (clarity/form) — it’s a theological structure, not a weather report.

Augustine, writing over a thousand years before Darwin or Scofield, warned believers not to interpret Genesis 1 as a literal 6-day timeline. He believed creation was instantaneous in God's eternal act, and the “days” were structured revelations for human understanding.

“What kind of days these were is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible, to determine.” — Augustine, City of God, Book 11, Ch. 6

Genesis 2:4 uses “yom” to refer to all six days of creation as one:
“In the day [yom] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens…”
So which is it? One day? Six days????
Context defines yom — not Scofield.

You want to keep pretending “evening and morning” means “24 hours,”
but without a sun, without a moon, without a Hebrew scholar alive who agrees with you,
you’re just repeating a 20th-century Westernized reading built on English grammar and Scofield footnotes.

So no — I don’t need to redefine “light” or “darkness.”
But I do need to read the text through the eyes of its authors — not a Study Bible printed in Oxford in 1909.

You can keep swinging your Rapture chart at Genesis 1 if you want —
but I’ll keep reading the Bible in the language God actually inspired it in.

 

[talons]

7. You quote Scofield’s footnotes like scripture,
but have never read Irenaeus, Augustine, or a single line of Hebrew.
(But hey, at least you know what page the Rapture chart’s on.)

Augustine, writing over a thousand years before Darwin or Scofield, warned believers not to interpret Genesis 1 as a literal 6-day timeline. He believed creation was instantaneous in God's eternal act, and the “days” were structured revelations for human understanding.

Augustine , I am not a fan .

Don’t Blame the Devil: St Augustine and Original Sin – Utne

St Augustine of Hippo was a prolific contributor to the formation of modern Christianity, particularly through the concept of Original Sin. The philosophy of human nature this idea implies continues to inform contemporary morality.

www.utne.com

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That’s what makes the Scofield Bible so dangerous — it doesn’t change the text, it reframes how you interpret it.

Yes, the scripture is still there… but once you start reading the Bible through Scofield’s footnotes, you’re no longer letting scripture interpret scripture — you’re letting a 19th-century Zionist-funded conman with no Hebrew training and a criminal record tell you what the Bible really means.

And it’s not just “notes.” Scofield’s commentary redefines major doctrines — like turning “Israel” into a geopolitical state instead of the Body of Christ, separating the Church and Israel as if God has two peoples, and inserting a two-stage return of Christ that the apostles never taught and the early Church never believed.

It’s not a neutral study tool. It’s a filter.
And once that filter is installed, people stop seeing what the Bible actually says and start parroting a system that was literally invented to support political Zionism and Western foreign policy — not the Gospel.

The danger isn’t in the translation.
The danger is in the man-made framework pretending to be biblical.

It did not reframe me. I do not even agree with everything

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're quoting “evening and morning” like it proves 24-hour clock time — but that only works if you ignore everything else about Hebrew language, ancient cosmology, and Genesis itself.

Let’s walk through what your argument misses:

“Yom” (יוֹם) in Hebrew is a flexible word — it can mean a 12-hour daylight period, a full 24-hour day, or an undefined era or epoch. That’s not a fringe theory — that’s standard biblical Hebrew, recognized in every lexicon and by every credible Hebrew scholar.

Evening and morning are literary markers, not clock measurements. Genesis 1 is written in poetic parallelism, not in scientific prose. The “evening and morning” formula is structure, not stopwatch. This is common in Hebrew storytelling — it’s not a timestamp, it’s a rhythm.

And here’s the nail in your 24-hour coffin:

The sun and moon weren’t even created until Day 4 (Genesis 1:14–19).
So how are you measuring 24-hour days without a sun to define a “day”?

The ancient Hebrews weren’t dumb. They weren’t thinking “24-hour solar cycles” on Day 1 — they were describing divine order emerging from chaos, using a repeated pattern for literary flow:

Evening (chaos/obscurity) to morning (clarity/form) — it’s a theological structure, not a weather report.

Augustine, writing over a thousand years before Darwin or Scofield, warned believers not to interpret Genesis 1 as a literal 6-day timeline. He believed creation was instantaneous in God's eternal act, and the “days” were structured revelations for human understanding.

“What kind of days these were is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible, to determine.” — Augustine, City of God, Book 11, Ch. 6

Genesis 2:4 uses “yom” to refer to all six days of creation as one:
“In the day [yom] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens…”
So which is it? One day? Six days????
Context defines yom — not Scofield.

You want to keep pretending “evening and morning” means “24 hours,”
but without a sun, without a moon, without a Hebrew scholar alive who agrees with you,
you’re just repeating a 20th-century Westernized reading built on English grammar and Scofield footnotes.

So no — I don’t need to redefine “light” or “darkness.”
But I do need to read the text through the eyes of its authors — not a Study Bible printed in Oxford in 1909.

You can keep swinging your Rapture chart at Genesis 1 if you want —
but I’ll keep reading the Bible in the language God actually inspired it in.

And you say wcofueod is dangerous. I would look inside before you start attacking others. You have serious issues yourself

 

[Rockerduck]

You're quoting “evening and morning” like it proves 24-hour clock time — but that only works if you ignore everything else about Hebrew language, ancient cosmology, and Genesis itself.

Let’s walk through what your argument misses:

“Yom” (יוֹם) in Hebrew is a flexible word — it can mean a 12-hour daylight period, a full 24-hour day, or an undefined era or epoch. That’s not a fringe theory — that’s standard biblical Hebrew, recognized in every lexicon and by every credible Hebrew scholar.

Evening and morning are literary markers, not clock measurements. Genesis 1 is written in poetic parallelism, not in scientific prose. The “evening and morning” formula is structure, not stopwatch. This is common in Hebrew storytelling — it’s not a timestamp, it’s a rhythm.

And here’s the nail in your 24-hour coffin:

The sun and moon weren’t even created until Day 4 (Genesis 1:14–19).
So how are you measuring 24-hour days without a sun to define a “day”?

The ancient Hebrews weren’t dumb. They weren’t thinking “24-hour solar cycles” on Day 1 — they were describing divine order emerging from chaos, using a repeated pattern for literary flow:

Evening (chaos/obscurity) to morning (clarity/form) — it’s a theological structure, not a weather report.

Augustine, writing over a thousand years before Darwin or Scofield, warned believers not to interpret Genesis 1 as a literal 6-day timeline. He believed creation was instantaneous in God's eternal act, and the “days” were structured revelations for human understanding.

“What kind of days these were is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible, to determine.” — Augustine, City of God, Book 11, Ch. 6

Genesis 2:4 uses “yom” to refer to all six days of creation as one:
“In the day [yom] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens…”
So which is it? One day? Six days????
Context defines yom — not Scofield.

You want to keep pretending “evening and morning” means “24 hours,”
but without a sun, without a moon, without a Hebrew scholar alive who agrees with you,
you’re just repeating a 20th-century Westernized reading built on English grammar and Scofield footnotes.

So no — I don’t need to redefine “light” or “darkness.”
But I do need to read the text through the eyes of its authors — not a Study Bible printed in Oxford in 1909.

You can keep swinging your Rapture chart at Genesis 1 if you want —
but I’ll keep reading the Bible in the language God actually inspired it in.

Why did God institute the Sabbath day by making this statement

Exodus 31:17 - It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Why did God institute the Sabbath day by making this statement

Exodus 31:17 - It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

Already completely covered back on post #6

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

And you say wcofueod is dangerous. I would look inside before you start attacking others. You have serious issues yourself

I present Hebrew, Augustine, and biblical context — and you throw a fortune cookie insult? Come back when you have an argument.

 

[shepherdsword]

I’m not appealing to authority—I’m appealing to original language, historical theology, and consistent biblical context.

You need to google what an appeal to authority it. Google "dunning kruger effect" while you are at it.

The Hebrew word “yom” is used throughout the Old Testament to mean different lengths of time, including metaphorical and epochal periods. That’s not cherry-picking; that’s linguistic fact acknowledged by every credible Hebrew scholar from ancient rabbis to modern experts. If Scripture itself uses yom flexibly, then context must determine meaning—not modern English assumptions. “Evening and morning” were literary structures in ancient Hebrew, especially in poetic or cosmological texts like Genesis 1, where the sun itself wasn’t created until Day 4. Measuring “24 hours” without a sun is scientifically and theologically incoherent. You’re not defending Scripture—you’re defending a 19th-century framework built by men who neither knew Hebrew nor reflected the views of the early Church. You accuse me of fallacy while standing on a Scofield footnote. Study the Word in its original language—or keep defending a timeline the apostles never taught, based on footnotes written by a drunk criminal who abandoned his family and wasn’t even a theologian.

The entire creation story defined a day as a "night and an evening" You can make all of the nonsensical dodges and feints you want. However, it doesn't change the fact that in the context of creation,,,yom means a 24 hour period.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You need to google what an appeal to authority it. Google "dunning kruger effect" while you are at it.


The entire creation story defined a day as a "night and an evening" You can make all of the nonsensical dodges and feints you want. However, it doesn't change the fact that in the context of creation,,,yom means a 24 hour period.

You keep saying “evening and morning = 24 hours” as if repeating it makes it true, but the text says no such thing. You’re reading that into the passage, not pulling it out of it. Genesis 1 uses poetic structure — not clocks — and the fact that the sun and moon don’t exist until Day 4 makes a literal 24-hour cycle scientifically and theologically impossible for Days 1–3. That’s not a “dodge,” that’s a basic observation from the text.

The word “yom” is used dozens of times throughout the Old Testament to mean more than just a 24-hour day — including in Genesis itself (Gen 2:4: “In the day [yom] the Lord God made the earth and heavens” — referring to all of creation as one “day”).

If “evening and morning” forces yom to always mean 24 hours, then Genesis 2:4 is a contradiction. But it's not — unless you’re forcing the Scofield lens onto the Hebrew Bible.

So no — I’m not dodging. I’m doing exactly what Paul told Timothy: rightly dividing the Word of truth. You’re the one twisting Hebrew poetry into a science textbook and pretending a 19th-century chart is divine revelation. That’s not faith — that’s theological cosplay.

 

[Rockerduck]

Already completely covered back on post #6

You called it everything in post # 6 except God's covenant and a sign between Israel and God. It was a literal 6 days and rest on the 7th. Joshua circled Jericho 6 days and shouted on the 7th. The is a pattern that God uses. 6 days the Israelites picked up manna and none on the 7th.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You called it everything in post # 6 except God's covenant and a sign between Israel and God. It was a literal 6 days and rest on the 7th. Joshua circled Jericho 6 days and shouted on the 7th. The is a pattern that God uses. 6 days the Israelites picked up manna and none on the 7th.

You’re confusing symbolic repetition with literal chronology. Yes, God uses the number seven throughout Scripture as a pattern — but patterns aren’t proofs of time duration. They’re literary structures, theological rhythms, covenantal symbols.

The fact that Israel marched around Jericho for seven days, or gathered manna for six and rested on the seventh, doesn’t mean Genesis 1 is a clock-based journal of cosmic mechanics. It means God likes structure. It means He embeds meaning in numbers. That’s Hebrew theology — not stopwatch theology.

The Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20 reflects that pattern for human life. It doesn’t define the physics of creation. You’re still conflating moral law (rest every 7th day) with cosmic history — and still ignoring that the sun didn’t exist until Day 4, which breaks the possibility of literal 24-hour days from the start.

And no — I didn’t deny that the Sabbath is a covenant. I said exactly that: it’s a sign between God and Israel — a moral rhythm, not a scientific timestamp.

You’re using biblical numerology like a tape measure, trying to calculate creation with a ruler God never gave you. Genesis 1 isn’t a lab report. It’s sacred theology in poetic form, declaring who God is, not giving you a chart to win Facebook debates.

If patterns automatically made everything literal, then Jesus is literally a door, a lamb, and a vine — all at once. But we both know that’s not how Scripture works. So stop treating Hebrew poetry like a NASA manual.

 

[shepherdsword]

You keep saying “evening and morning = 24 hours” as if repeating it makes it true, but the text says no such thing. You’re reading that into the passage, not pulling it out of it. Genesis 1 uses poetic structure — not clocks — and the fact that the sun and moon don’t exist until Day 4 makes a literal 24-hour cycle scientifically and theologically impossible for Days 1–3. That’s not a “dodge,” that’s a basic observation from the text.

This has to be the silliest argument I have ever heard.The fact that the Sun wasn't created until the 4th day but vegetation on the 4th proves that "yom" in this context could not have meant an extended period of time. How long do you think a plant can go without photosynthesis?

The word “yom” is used dozens of times throughout the Old Testament to mean more than just a 24-hour day — including in Genesis itself (Gen 2:4: “In the day [yom] the Lord God made the earth and heavens” — referring to all of creation as one “day”).

Of course it is. However, in the context of creation it is a 24 hour period. It's like Yom Kippur...a 24 hour period.

If “evening and morning” forces yom to always mean 24 hours, then Genesis 2:4 is a contradiction. But it's not — unless you’re forcing the Scofield lens onto the Hebrew Bible.

Day and evening is not used in Gen 2:4. In that could context it DOES mean an indefinite period

So no — I’m not dodging. I’m doing exactly what Paul told Timothy: rightly dividing the Word of truth. You’re the one twisting Hebrew poetry into a science textbook and pretending a 19th-century chart is divine revelation.

You aren't rightly dividing the word.You are stubbornly clinging to your paradigm despite it being proven wrong. Who is using a 19th century chart? Not me.

That’s not faith — that’s theological cosplay.

The only cosplay I see is the one you play by pretending to be some kind of scholar.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

This has to be the silliest argument I have ever heard.The fact that the Sun wasn't created until the 4th day but vegetation on the 4th proves that "yom" in this context could not have meant an extended period of time. How long do you think a plant can go without photosynthesis?

Of course it is. However, in the context of creation it is a 24 hour period. It's like Yom Kippur...a 24 hour period.

Day and evening is not used in Gen 2:4. In that could context it DOES mean an indefinite period

You aren't rightly dividing the word.You are stubbornly clinging to your paradigm despite it being proven wrong. Who is using a 19th century chart? Not me.

The only cosplay I see is the one you play by pretending to be some kind of scholar.

You just admitted “yom” doesn’t always mean a literal 24-hour day in Genesis 2:4 — which torpedoes your entire claim that it must mean that in Genesis 1 just because of “evening and morning.” You can’t have it both ways. The same author, the same book, the same word — used flexibly depending on the context. That’s how Hebrew works.

If you want to pretend “evening and morning” locks the timeline to a modern clock, go for it — but you’re reading Western assumptions into an ancient, Near Eastern poetic text. That’s called eisegesis, not exegesis.

Also, the “plants need photosynthesis” argument? Come on, man. It’s theology, not a botany manual. If God can create the universe out of nothing, He can keep plants alive for a day — or a thousand years. You're trying to argue divine creation must obey modern photosynthetic science while simultaneously saying it's a miraculous event. That’s cognitive dissonance in HD.

You’re not defending Genesis. You’re defending a system built on Scofield's charts and Darby’s assumptions — not the actual Hebrew text.

 

[shepherdsword]

You just admitted “yom” doesn’t always mean a literal 24-hour day in Genesis 2:4 — which torpedoes your entire claim that it must mean that in Genesis 1 just because of “evening and morning.” You can’t have it both ways. The same author, the same book, the same word — used flexibly depending on the context. That’s how Hebrew works.

You err, I never said Yom alway means one day. I said it means a 24 hour period in the creation context.

If you want to pretend “evening and morning” locks the timeline to a modern clock, go for it — but you’re reading Western assumptions into an ancient, Near Eastern poetic text. That’s called eisegesis, not exegesis.

So I guess Yom Kippur is an indefinite age too

Also, the “plants need photosynthesis” argument? Come on, man. It’s theology, not a botany manual. If God can create the universe out of nothing, He can keep plants alive for a day — or a thousand years. You're trying to argue divine creation must obey modern photosynthetic science while simultaneously saying it's a miraculous event. That’s cognitive dissonance in HD.

Yeah and .He could have meant there was a huge gap between Gen 1:1 and 2. Then again, he could have meant a day was simply a day. Stop trying to wiggle your way out of a loss.

You’re not defending Genesis. You’re defending a system built on Scofield's charts and Darby’s assumptions — not the actual Hebrew text.

If you are going to apply metaphoric symbols to a day in Gen 1 then be consistent and say the entire account was metaphorical.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You err, I never said Yom alway means one day. I said it means a 24 hour period in the creation context.


So I guess Yom Kippur is an indefinite age too

Yeah and .He could have meant there was a huge gap between Gen 1:1 and 2. Then again, he could have meant a day was simply a day. Stop trying to wiggle your way out of a loss.

If you are going to apply metaphoric symbols to a day in Gen 1 then be consistent and say the entire account was metaphorical.

You're arguing in circles now. First you say "yom means a 24-hour day in context" — then ignore the actual context, which is a non-clock-based poetic creation hymn where the sun (the basis of our 24-hour system) doesn't exist until Day 4.

"Evening and morning" is not a stopwatch, it's a literary marker. That phrase was used in Jewish writing to denote closure, not exact timekeeping. If you think the ancient Hebrews needed a digital watch to honor God’s creative rhythm, you're dragging modern Western constructs into a text written over 3,000 years ago.

“So I guess Yom Kippur is an indefinite age too”
Nice try — but that’s not even the same usage. “Yom Kippur” is an appointed festival day on the Jewish calendar, where the time unit is explicitly defined by context and tradition. Genesis 1 is not a calendar. It’s not a festival. It’s a revelation. You’re comparing apples to scrolls.

“If you're going to say Gen 1 is poetic, then say the whole thing is metaphor.”
Okay — so by that logic, if Jesus says, “I am the door,” I should assume He’s a piece of wood? The Bible is full of both literal and poetic language — often side by side. The job of a faithful interpreter is to rightly divide, not force everything into one category.

The real issue here? You’re not defending Genesis. You're defending a 19th-century theological system that needs six literal 24-hour days so it can glue together Scofield’s timeline, Darby’s rapture chart, and a fake divide between Israel and the Church.

I’m not the one doing theological gymnastics. You are — trying to bend ancient Hebrew into a modernist mold just to protect a system that didn’t even exist before John Nelson Darby started scribbling on napkins.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I present Hebrew, Augustine, and biblical context — and you throw a fortune cookie insult? Come back when you have an argument.

lol. Dude, you’re so stuck with pride. You would never hear anything anyone says.

Your not here to argue, you here to push some phony agenda

 

[PS95]

I have had multiple Scofield bibles.

my first bible was a KJV scofield study

My second was a NKJV Sofield

My third was a NKJV scofield 3

They all have the same words of scripture as the rest.

what they have is what all study bibles have, notes. References to other passages. and the like..

The bible itself is great. Literally there is no difference in a NKJV scofield reference than their is a regular NKJV as it comes to the words written.

Hey, hope all is well with you.
Thanks. Yep, I knew that is was kjv. It seems that his notes are the issue. I haven't had time to look into the financial backers of it, and that I am interested in. Perhaps someday. My comment was merely in reference to a school needing a "study" bible. I just find that somewhat amusing in an off sort of way.
What was posted about the financial background was stunning, yet it would not surprise me given the infiltration of all institutions. I would need to verify it myself. Maybe someday..
Its not as if I can do a thing about it. But if true, it would be a real alarm in my mind. It's one of those things though, will many care enough to deeply delve into the word without being simply taught of man, or would they just be offended and dismiss it?

That might sound odd, but having once been bitten now twice shy, because I once blindly trusted, I have had to become a very cautious berean, no matter the credentials of the teacher.

 

[PS95]

You are absolutely right to be suspicious about why a seminary would lean so heavily on a “study Bible” — but when the footnotes are used to reinterpret the actual biblical text, what you’re seeing is a shift in doctrinal authority from scripture to commentary. That’s how Scofield’s notes gained power. They weren’t just notes — they became the lens through which generations of pastors were taught to read the Bible.

This is what concerns me most. How do we know that is what happened for certain?
My question is this- do these notes happen to contain cross references to the verses that take you to another and another that appears to be right- except one problem is noticed- the cross reference many times, ignores the direct context, as well as ignores large portions of scripture elsewhere that are clear?
IOW, if you read the bible alone you would definitely never not conclude this.
Do you happen to know?
IF So, that's not the 1st time that has happened and it is a very serious and powerful manipulation tactic. wow

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

And here’s the nail in your 24-hour coffin:

Here's a nail in your bonehead.

The sun and moon weren’t even created until Day 4 (Genesis 1:14–19).
So how are you measuring 24-hour days without a sun to define a “day”?

God created the physical light on the 1st day ( the color spectrum, waves and particles). His light transcended into ourbreqlm and unto earth. He set the earth in motion, he spun it in a 24 hour revolution. As the earth made one rotation, the portion the earth moving away from the light became darker and evening came on the other side of the planet and as it became lighter, morning on God's side. Capisce?

The ancient Hebrews weren’t dumb

They might question your perception.

You're quoting “evening and morning” like it proves 24-hour clock time — but that only works if you ignore everything else

You are in denial. The context defines their meaning. Remember light and darkness is also literally tied to their meaning. This is SO COMMON TO humans, it is amazing how you don't get it. We experience this every single yom!
You screw up the meaning of our origins in Genesis and likely you will distort much of the Bible. It is foundational. If you get the beginning confused, likely the end will he as well and maybe the whole journey.