Scripture challenge!
- Thread starter theefaith
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I agree with those texts. Not in disagreement. Though I will disagree with how you "interpret" those texts, since I must agree with how God interpreted those texts.
Yes, the church has authority, but not to take away from or add to God's written word. It's authority is in matters accepting or rejecting who are members of the church. It's authority cannot equal nor supercede what is written in scripture. It's authority in individual members (apostles, elders, deacons, prophets, teachers, etc) are not as Lord's over God's heritage, but as brethren in orderly conduct (including submission to council as in the Lord, Acts 15).
Scripture came by God, even the Holy Ghost, 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:19-21.
You have a private interpretation of "tradition", that the Bible does not approve of.
Sola Scriptura simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught either explicitly or implicitly in Scripture. It is not a claim that all truth of every kind is found in Scripture, nor is it a claim that no truth can be found anywhere else other than in Scripture. Sufficiency is the crux of it.
Grace and peace to all.
Grace and peace to all.
What verses do you specifically refer to? I do not disgree that the Bible refers to, in a few places in the NT, positive "tradition". It just doesn't mean, in it's own context, what Roman Catholicism says it means, being apart from the predefined context.
Lk 22
All apostles
But prays for Peter alone
Jn 21 Peter entrusted with the flock or church
Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!
Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!
Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter
It’s Christ who does this
Why is the name of peter even mentioned?
Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!
Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!
Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!
Peter is head of the church!
Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)
Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.
Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father
Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22
Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
4 important questions:
1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?
Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!
Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(Protestants, fundamentalists, etc.)
Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!
True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics like luther, calvin, etc. but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!
How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?
If Christ is the rock:
1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?
2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)
3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)
4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?
5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17
If Peter’s confession is the rock:
1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
Acts 2;42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine
apostles have authority from Christ to teach
Lk 1:4 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21
that’s what I said by tradition
Divine tradition
Tradition means teaching
Christ teaching his apostles in person!
Not passing out books
the church of the apostles does not need scripture to know the truth! The church was taught the truth in person by Christ who is truth itself! Jn 14:6
The church wrote the New Testament
The church was founded and acts with the authority of Christ before the New Testament
The church was founded by Christ before the New Testament was inspired
The church exercised the authority of Christ before the New Testament was written
The church wrote the New Testament and has authority to interpret
The scriptures are the possession of the church to be used in her liturgy
Jude 1:3 contend for the faith
The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!
The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17
Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
God does not reveal His truth in a vacuum!
God does not set His true adrift on a sea of spiritual anarchy!
God sets His truth in His church, in the possession of His apostles to safeguard, to ensure it is not added to, or taken away from, or changed in any way!
And to teach the same truth to all nations and all ages!
Verified by scripture:
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost!
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints!
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness!
(all scripture not 66 books alone)
Must be instructed in the faith:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…
Jn 29:21-23 as the father sent me, so I send you. (Same mission, power, and authority to teach all nations)
Lk 10:16 He who hears you, (His apostles) hear me.
Jn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 8:32 You (the apostles) shall know the truth; and the truth shall make you free.
Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(His apostles)
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,466
- 1,707
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
c'mon theefaith.... @ReChoired did a pretty darn good job of providing the "list" from Scripture. I think you are straining gnats here!
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,466
- 1,707
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Hi ReChoired,
You say 'the church has authority'. Which church is that?
Also, what do you make of Matthew 18:18?
Respectfully, Mary
Similar threads
