Scriptures that Refute Calvinism

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Big Boy Johnson

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Really! Your defense is God made you stab your wife!

That's what the calvinists claim, God makes people do sin because they claim everything that happens is God making it happen.

This is why you don't want any calvinists to know where you live because they'll rob your house and claim it was God's will for them to take all your stuff :funlaugh2
 
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PinSeeker

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God's Word says sin came UPON us, it never says we were born with sin in us.
Does it say how old we were? <smile> I would be a bit interested to know what in Scripture you are referring to. But even David says he was born in sin, even conceived in it ~ "I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me" (Psalm 51:5).

But feel free to believe God made you a sinner when He created you.
That's surely not what I ~ or Calvin, or any Calvinist ~ believe or ever believed. This would be to say that God is the author of sin and even the source of evil, which is surely not true in any shape, form, or fashion.

It's no problem for me at all.
To believe that God made you a sinner? Well, it should be. I mean yeah, that would be a big problem. To call evil good and good evil... <shudder> He certainly did form you inside your mother's womb (as he does all people). But we all effectively chose... because we are in Adam and thus dead in our sin, even before we have actually sinned, from birth. Adam took on this condition, this state of the heart/spirit; we are all born in that same condition, that same state of the heart/spirit. It's not about any one specific sin, but our being born in it and thus our propensity toward it.

Speak for yourself.
I am.

Jesus said the Kingdom of God is being like a little child (Matthew 18:3)
Well, He said unless we turn and become like children, we will never enter the kingdom of heaven. You and I will probably agree on this, but turn from what, Big Boy? So, Jesus is surely not saying children are without sin; only Jesus was and is without sin. And of course there is the fact that He specifies no age... And He's speaking to adults and saying they must become like children. So what do you think Jesus meant when He said we must become like children? I mean, I think you'll agree that He means for us to be humble as a child, ~ surely not "become sinless like a child," as children are not sinless, and likewise as we at any age cannot become sinless ~ with a childlike trust, vulnerability, and acknowledgment of our inability to advance our own cause apart from the help, direction, and resources of a parent... our Father in Heaven.

Even on above all this, the issue is not outward manifestation of sin but inward propensity toward it, which... we are born with, as we see in Romans 5:12... "sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"... Paul is saying there that not that we are guilty of Adam's particular sin in Eden but that all sinned in Adam's sin because Adam represented all mankind to come. His unrighteousness is imputed to all of us, even from birth. Conversely, if and when we are born again of the Spirit, Christ's righteousness is imputed to us in God's pronouncement upon us of justification and His raising us to life in Christ Jesus.

and the calvinists twist that to mean they were born sinners...
This is exactly what it means.

...Jesus wants them to live in sin...
Most certainly not.

which calvinists are doing...
Nope.

No, Jesus is not saying little children are sinners...
Well, no, but neither is He saying little children are not sinners. See above. He's exhorting us to be humble like they are ~ which he explicitly says in Matthew 18:4 ~ which is a result of knowing we have no hope aside from... well, a parent, but in our case aside from our Father in heaven.

as the calvinists's god claims
<eye roll> I mean, just false accusation after false accusation... This is always how it goes. <sigh...>

...no thanks.
<chuckles> None needed... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Big Boy.
 
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Grailhunter

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That's surely not what I ~ or Calvin, or any Calvinist ~ believe or ever believed. This would be to say that God is the author of sin and even the source of evil, which is surely not true in any shape, form, or fashion.

It is not good for someone not to know their own religion.....
Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing with the question of the control that God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."The second use of the word "predestination" applies this to salvation, and refers to the belief that God appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation by grace, while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin. The former is called "unconditional election", and the latter "reprobation". In Calvinism, some people are predestined and effectually called in due time (regenerated/born again) to faith by God, all others are reprobated.

Find a better religious belief....
 

Big Boy Johnson

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In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."

This is why they believe when some terrible crime is committed, that God actually made the criminal do the crime and then they try to gaslight people by saying they don't believe that.




It is not good for someone not to know their own religion.....

Oh they are aware of their own religion, they're just gaslighting people to make their religion seem more palatable so they can recruit more people to join their religion




Find a better religious belief....

They should get hooked up with the Real Jesus of the Bible and quit following calvin
 
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PinSeeker

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It is not good for someone not to know their own religion.....
I agree...

Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing with the question of the control that God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."The second use of the word "predestination" applies this to salvation, and refers to the belief that God appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation by grace, while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin.
Nice cut and paste. I mean, really, nice... that's not meant to be belittling in any way. ...despite the M.O of you and Big Boy... But notice the bolded and enlarged part of your own quote above. There, it is plain to see that God did not predestine some ~ any ~ to this eternal state of condemnation/damnation. The only active predestining God does is, for some and not all, predestining "for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will" (Ephesians 1:5). There is no other predestination by God anywhere in Scripture.

With regard to unbelievers, those who "exchange the truth for a lie and worship and serve creation rather than the creator" ~ which is a voluntary, free action all their own ~ He "gives them up to their own foolish passions and desires"... "in the lusts of their hearts to impurity"(Romans 1)~ so lets them do what they want ~ and even in so doing, He "endures them with much patience" (Romans 9:22), even giving them great grace (though not salvific grace) throughout their lives here on earth ("the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and patience," Romans 2:4-5). You could actually say, Grailhunter, that they predestine themselves to this fate... but there is no "pre-" to it. One does not pre-exist himself or herself, of course. But through his or her own actions and inactions, he or she destines himself/herself.

And actually, we all do that, and God would be perfectly just to leave us all to ourselves and thus save none of us. But God "has mercy on whomever He wills" (Romans 9:18); to some... The greatest "but" in the history of mankind: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loves (them), even when (they) were dead in (their) trespasses, made (them) alive together with Christ ~ by grace (they) have been saved ~ and raised (them) up with Him and seated (them) with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward (them) in Christ Jesus. For by grace (they; we) have been saved through faith..." (Ephesians 2:4-8).

The former is called "unconditional election", and the latter "reprobation". In Calvinism, some people are predestined and effectually called in due time (regenerated/born again) to faith by God, all others are reprobated.
Even from the very link you provided, Grailhunter, reprobation is a doctrine which teaches that a person can reject the gospel to a point where God in turn rejects them. So, again, it's not so much that He rejects them, but gives them the due penalty for their own rejection, so... again... it is a self-destining.

Grace and peace to you.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I'm going by what God's Word teaches not what Calvin teaches so it's not wise when people call God a liar.
Well as you seem fiercely determined to present what you believe God says against Calvinism, you accusation of calling god a liar is very vacuous.
No, the Lord provided for all men to be saved which does not automatically mean all men are saved.

The ilk of calvinism claims God decided to assign most people of hell before they were even even born that's because calvinism serves satan and his deceptions so they claim god is a monster because they are serving the monster, satan.
No the ilk of Calvinism is not that. That is the lie that anti biblical anti Calvinists use to hide their ignorance. All men are by birth condemned to hell. God chooses to save some.
Those not paying attention, like they don't pay attention to God's Word instead being too busy following men, wouldn't know I already did - See Post #71, and Post #72, and Post #73
My apologies, somehow I missed those posts. I will respond to your misunderstanding of Scripture on these soon.
No, the Lord provided for all men to be saved which does not automatically mean all men are saved.
No the Lord's death men all men savable. But even Jesus said most will not and Paul in Romans 9 showed that most will not.

Will show your error in refuting th efive points shortly.
 

Grailhunter

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I agree...


Nice cut and paste. I mean, really, nice... that's not meant to be belittling in any way. ...despite the M.O of you and Big Boy... But notice the bolded and enlarged part of your own quote above. There, it is plain to see that God did not predestine some ~ any ~ to this eternal state of condemnation/damnation. The only active predestining God does is, for some and not all, predestining "for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will" (Ephesians 1:5). There is no other predestination by God anywhere in Scripture.

With regard to unbelievers, those who "exchange the truth for a lie and worship and serve creation rather than the creator" ~ which is a voluntary, free action all their own ~ He "gives them up to their own foolish passions and desires"... "in the lusts of their hearts to impurity"(Romans 1)~ so lets them do what they want ~ and even in so doing, He "endures them with much patience" (Romans 9:22), even giving them great grace (though not salvific grace) throughout their lives here on earth ("the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and patience," Romans 2:4-5). You could actually say, Grailhunter, that they predestine themselves to this fate... but there is no "pre-" to it. One does not pre-exist himself or herself, of course. But through his or her own actions and inactions, he or she destines himself/herself.

And actually, we all do that, and God would be perfectly just to leave us all to ourselves and thus save none of us. But God "has mercy on whomever He wills" (Romans 9:18); to some... The greatest "but" in the history of mankind: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loves (them), even when (they) were dead in (their) trespasses, made (them) alive together with Christ ~ by grace (they) have been saved ~ and raised (them) up with Him and seated (them) with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward (them) in Christ Jesus. For by grace (they; we) have been saved through faith..." (Ephesians 2:4-8).


Even from the very link you provided, Grailhunter, reprobation is a doctrine which teaches that a person can reject the gospel to a point where God in turn rejects them. So, again, it's not so much that He rejects them, but gives them the due penalty for their own rejection, so... again... it is a self-destining.

Grace and peace to you.

How many you want.
while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin.
He chooses the ones for heaven and rest for eternal damnatiom.....I think I already said that.
Those chosen for heaven and hell before the world was created is a belief that Calvin was famous for.

You are a victim of Calvinism.
Those that preach and promote Calvinism do not tell people what it is really about. It is not really a denomination ….they are infiltrators. They infiltrate Baptist churches and Methodist churches and non denominational churches.

Now most people are just embarrassed when they find out the truth but I saw it turn into fist fight in a church parking lot. And I have seen it turn people away from Christianity, being deceived once they were not willing to try again.

Find a better religion.
 

Grailhunter

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Well as you seem fiercely determined to present what you believe God says against Calvinism, you accusation of calling god a liar is very vacuous.

No the ilk of Calvinism is not that. That is the lie that anti biblical anti Calvinists use to hide their ignorance. All men are by birth condemned to hell. God chooses to save some.

My apologies, somehow I missed those posts. I will respond to your misunderstanding of Scripture on these soon.

No the Lord's death men all men savable. But even Jesus said most will not and Paul in Romans 9 showed that most will not.

Will show your error in refuting th efive points shortly.

Spoken like a true brain washed Calvinist......be careful of the Kool-Aid
find a better religion.
 

PinSeeker

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Grailhunter

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This:




...is a direct contradiction of this:



The two statements are not congruent at all, and in fact opposite each other.



Yes, you absolutely did. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.


It is sad for you, it sad for all Calvinists. They are victims of a serious false belief. Then you have those that call themselves Calvinists but do not believe what Calvinism teaches. I have ran into a lot of them. Like the OSAS crowd Calvinism is a false belief.

But to put things in perspective, I am an educated theologian and I go to many different churches and yes I have stood with those that call themselves Calvinists and worshipped the Lord. And that is the point I want to make.

WHAT I DID NOT SAY…..
I did not say that Calvinists are not saved.
I did not say that Calvinists do not love the Lord.
I did not say that Calvinists are not good people.
I did not say that I do not stand with them and worship the Lord.

They are victims of those that preach a false belief and deceive many by not telling them what their religion is really about. This is actually a technique they use to infiltrate churches. Whole congregations deceived.

I have seen Calvinism destroy families….that is families in the plural. Because when disaster strikes….like losing a spouse or child they feel God predestined it and so God is either cruel or hates them.

I pray for all Calvinists….I hope they look closely into what Calvinism is really about.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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you accusation of calling god a liar is very vacuous.

Then they should quit considering all the things in God's Word not in agreement with their religion to be false.

All the Lord says is true, not all that calvin says ya know.
I will respond to your misunderstanding of Scripture on these soon.

No, you'll be twisting scripture to claim calvinism is true and God's Word is not.

This has already been proven that calvinists twist and misrepresent what God says so I won't be bothering to read your dark musings since I already have God's Word.,

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, not john calvin who was a wanna be chump and a murderer.
No the Lord's death men all men savable

You are adding your preconceived ideas to God's Word.

God's Word never say Jesus went to the cross only for those who are savable

Calvinist have to twist scripture to makes their false claims.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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I have stood with those that call themselves Calvinists and worshipped the Lord

I hope you repented for fellowship with tares!




WHAT I DID NOT SAY…..
I did not say that Calvinists are not saved.
I did not say that Calvinists do not love the Lord.
I did not say that Calvinists are not good people.
I did not say that I do not stand with them and worship the Lord.

Wow! You don't know God's Word very well.




I hope they look closely into what Calvinism is really about.

They are reprobate and have been turned over by the Lord to their devices.

Very very few are able to recover themselves from the devil's calvinist snare.
 

Grailhunter

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I hope you repented for fellowship with tares!






Wow! You don't know God's Word very well.






They are reprobate and have been turned over by the Lord to their devices.

Very very few are able to recover themselves from the devil's calvinist snare.

An educated Theologian does not know the scriptures very well ….you so funny. Do not let hate rule your religion. Like I said those that understand Calvinism at times deceive others by not explaining the truth. But as we see here a lot of them do not know what their religion preaches. So where do they sin? Is ignorance a sin? We may all be in trouble. The reason that true Theologians do not indorse any denomination is because they all have faults. No perfect church. It is important to love Christians. But Theologians can have favorites and mine are Holy Ghost churches.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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An educated Theologian does not know the scriptures very well

Those going around saying "Hey, pay attention to me, I'm a highly educated theologian" is the first clue they are NOT what they claim to be. If you were actually a highly educated theologian you would not be tooting your horn about it trying to get everyone one to acknowledge you as a highly educated theologian :funlaugh2

Actually going to bible college or seminary makes people religious minded as they learn what a bunch of old religious guys thinks the Bible says based on their fake denomination rather than learning directly from the Lord being taught by THE Teacher, the Holy Spirit.


So where do they sin?

Their first sin is being a follower of men instead of following the Lord Jesus



The reason that true Theologians do not indorse any denomination is because they all have faults.

If you went to protestant bible college or seminary you have been heavily influenced by calvinist doctrine which of course is why you are so friendly with these tares claiming it's OK for them to teach false doctrine and think they are still saved.

God's Word has some very harsh things to say about those that deceive others with false doctrine not following the Doctrine of Christ as laid out in the New Testament. We are supposed to depart from them and not even break bread with them!
 

Grailhunter

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Those going around saying "Hey, pay attention to me, I'm a highly educated theologian" is the first clue they are NOT what they claim to be. If you were actually a highly educated theologian you would not be tooting your horn about it trying to get everyone one to acknowledge you as a highly educated theologian :funlaugh2

Actually going to bible college or seminary makes people religious minded as they learn what a bunch of old religious guys thinks the Bible says based on their fake denomination rather than learning directly from the Lord being taught by THE Teacher, the Holy Spirit.




Their first sin is being a follower of men instead of following the Lord Jesus





If you went to protestant bible college or seminary you have been heavily influenced by calvinist doctrine which of course is why you are so friendly with these tares claiming it's OK for them to teach false doctrine and think they are still saved.

God's Word has some very harsh things to say about those that deceive others with false doctrine not following the Doctrine of Christ as laid out in the New Testament. We are supposed to depart from them and not even break bread with them!

You are obviously to stupid and rude for me to waste my time talking to......take a flying leap.....
 

David Lamb

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That is exactly right….robots
Predestined to heaven or hell before they born.
Every action and event predestined by God.
An orchestrated play for God to watch.
Got to be boring He always knows the out come.View attachment 64471
Not so. Calvinists know that sinners must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Hence, Calvinists have been, and still are, at the forefront of missionary endeavour. For example, William Carey, sometimes called "the father of modern missions) was a Calvinist Calvinists don't believe (at least, no Calvinist I have come across believes) that God predestines some sinners to hell. Rather, because we are all sinners by nature, then in our natural (unsaved) state we all deserve only punishment from God. As for your idea that God would be bored if He knew all things, I don't find that in Scripture. I do find that He does indeed know all things before they happen:


“Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’ Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.” (Isa 46:9-11 NKJV)
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Educated in 5 countries

So you got some paper to hang on your wall, big deal.

The world is a complete mess, all brought to us by "educated people"

What a farce! But, if this makes you feel good about yourself then pat yourself on the back while looking in the mirror and tell your self "Wow! Ain't I something with all this education" so you and yourself can get some goose bumps!:funlaugh2




You are obviously to stupid and rude for me to waste my time talking to......take a flying leap.....

Oops, looks like all the education is slippin!




Calvinists know that sinners must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.

If that's true then they were not actually predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world as they falsely claim they were