Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

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ChristisGod

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Here we go again, the same verses the same arguments, and the same outcome. Nothing changes. Just let me take a break from answering it, as you say are all my opinions anyway etc...you have time...I would ask you though to seriously study the words, Godliness or Godhood and then later they were nearly all translated into the single word Godhead ....what do this mean?
you are correct nothing changes since you reject Christ is God in the flesh and that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him. He lacks nothing in His deity just like the Father and Holy Spirit lack nothing in their deity.

next.....................
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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I see you ran away from the text he quoted so here it is with exegesis not eisegesis like you practice with nothing bot personal opinions.

Here lets begin with the syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.

Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.

It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”

That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".

He self-limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

In Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily.” Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells(is present) bodily in Jesus.

ALL THE FULNESS OF DEITY= nothing absent, missing its the same FULNESS of the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT- The Godhead.

Try to engage the text and exegete the passage rather than use eisegesis- reading your own thoughts and ideas into the text.

He shed His blood on the cross when all the Fulness of Deity was in Him bodily as the passage plainly SAYS in Colossians 1:19-20.

What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature. The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.

hope this helps !!!

You're denying that it was the Only Begotten Son of God Who came in the flesh, or became human? See if you're saying you believe that it was God manifest in the flesh or became human then you're denying it was the Only Begotten Son who was manifest in the flesh or became human.
 
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Wrangler

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You're denying that it was the Only Begotten Son of God Who came in the flesh, or became human? See if you're saying you believe that it was God manifest in the flesh or became human then you're denying it was the Only Begotten Son who was manifest in the flesh or became human.

Undoubtedly, they will make a dualistic Appeal, such as Apples are oranges.
 
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ChristisGod

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You're denying that it was the Only Begotten Son of God Who came in the flesh, or became human? See if you're saying you believe that it was God manifest in the flesh or became human then you're denying it was the Only Begotten Son who was manifest in the flesh or became human.
Wrong the Eternal Son was together with the Father before creation as per John 17:5 sharing the exact same Glory together as God.

next……
 
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Emily Nghiem

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I see you ran away from the text he quoted so here it is with exegesis not eisegesis like you practice with nothing bot personal opinions.

Here lets begin with the syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.

Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.

It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”

That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".

He self-limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

In Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily.” Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells(is present) bodily in Jesus.

ALL THE FULNESS OF DEITY= nothing absent, missing its the same FULNESS of the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT- The Godhead.

Try to engage the text and exegete the passage rather than use eisegesis- reading your own thoughts and ideas into the text.

He shed His blood on the cross when all the Fulness of Deity was in Him bodily as the passage plainly SAYS in Colossians 1:19-20.

What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature. The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.

hope this helps !!!
Dear @APAK
I think your description of Jesus submitting to God describes what we do as the people of the church embracing God through Christ Jesus.

Jesus is still greater than that because He as one with God's Will is Perfect.
Our will is not.

Jesus is still a higher spiritual level than human will of everyone else.

His will had NO conditions of sin that all other humans have.

I think you and @Christophany nailed it
why the "Jesus is God" statement is trying to clarify this distinction.

Trying to avoid the misperception that Jesus is just like all others of us who can follow God's will by submitting our will to God.

Jesus WAS in full the embodiment of God's will laws and WORD.

The rest of us THROUGH CHRIST are able to connect this way because Jesus is God's perfect will.

Jesus is not like other people, angels, prophets or others receiving God's Word.

Jesus IS God's Word incarnated in man.

@Wrangler does this help pinpoint that side of the objections?
 

post

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*ahem*

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

(Acts 20:28)​

God's church
bought with God's own blood

the church of Christ -- Romans 16:16
bought with the blood of Christ -- Ephesians 5:23-27

Q.E.D. Christ is God

calling Him 'just a man' is blasphemy.
 

Addy

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Wow... you guys sure write LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG posts... LOL
 

Gregory

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Irrelevant. Fact is, David, Daniel & Nebuchadnezzar were all men who were worshipped according to Scripture, the Word of God.
It would be appropriate to always tell the truth when you are talking about the bible.

The real truth is that David was worshipped according to a minority of bibles. The rest do not use the word "worship", but use "obeisance". That is the truth. What you said is a half truth. The worst kinds.
 

Gregory

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you are correct nothing changes since you reject Christ is God in the flesh and that all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him. He lacks nothing in His deity just like the Father and Holy Spirit lack nothing in their deity.

next.....................
While Jesus was alive and well, he lacked the death and resurrection.

1) He had to finish his business on the cross to be perfected, like his Father, God the Father.

2) He had to be resurrected and have an immortal body to be perfected, like his Father, God the Father.
 

ChristisGod

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While Jesus was alive and well, he lacked the death and resurrection.

1) He had to finish his business on the cross to be perfected, like his Father, God the Father.

2) He had to be resurrected and have an immortal body to be perfected, like his Father, God the Father.
1- the Father never died
2- the Father is not a man with a body
 

Wrangler

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It would be appropriate to always tell the truth when you are talking about the bible.

The real truth is that David was worshipped according to a minority of bibles. The rest do not use the word "worship", but use "obeisance". That is the truth. What you said is a half truth. The worst kinds.

You are confusing HOW David was worshipped with THAT he was worshipped. How did the worshipper demonstrate their worship? Through obeisance.

Fact is, David was worshipped as were 3 other men in the Bible. Call it what you want. A rose by any other name ....

Many trinitarian translations alter the word of God to fit their doctrine. There is no other reason why this is a sticking point.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Wrong the Eternal Son was together with the Father before creation as per John 17:5 sharing the exact same Glory together as God.

next……

Jesus reflects his Father and Gods glory, that doesn't make Jesus God. The Father and God of Jesus is that glory, but Jesus reflects his Father and God glory.
 
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ChristisGod

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Jesus reflects his Father and Gods glory, that doesn't make Jesus God. The Father and God of Jesus is that glory, but Jesus reflects his Father and God glory.
Sorry the Son in John 17:5 is talking about HIS GLORY with the FATHERS before creation.

Can you exegete John 17:5 ?

any more strawman arguments ?
 

Gregory

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You are confusing HOW David was worshipped with THAT he was worshipped. How did the worshipper demonstrate their worship? Through obeisance.

Fact is, David was worshipped as were 3 other men in the Bible. Call it what you want. A rose by any other name ....

Many trinitarian translations alter the word of God to fit their doctrine. There is no other reason why this is a sticking point.

Clever how you try to reconcile worship with obeisance. However, the definition of both gives up the truth.
Obeisance = humble submission and respect. (as to another human)
Worship = the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

David, nor the people of Israel looked on David as a god. If David had thought the people were worhipping him, he would have stopped it cold.

You say 3 other men were worshipped in the bible. But you do not specify which bible. Not in the KJV which most Christians read. What obscure bibles use the word "worship" in the verse you quoted. Maybe 3 of 100?

There is no reason this should be a sticking point, except that you are making it so. I don't think there is another person on this thread that believes you on this matter.
 
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Wrangler

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Obeisance = humble submission and respect. (as to another human)

So, your ridiculous theory is people do not offer humble submission and respect. (as to a diety); that worship and Obeisance are not aligned even when stated in the Bible?
 

Wrangler

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David, nor the people of Israel looked on David as a god.

That is where you are trying to be clever. The pivot point is worship, not deification of a man. Fact is, the Bible clearly states David was worshipped.

It is your doctrine that pretends only a god can be worshipped. I offered 4 places where that is not true.
 

Wrangler

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So many sentences in the Bible are written in the form of Abbot is X and Costello is Y, clearly indicating they are different beings. From this week's devotional reading from Acts 20 CJB;
  • v21: turn from sin to God; and put your trust in our Lord, Yeshua the Messiah.
  • v28 to shepherd God’s Messianic community, which he won for himself at the cost of his own Son’s blood.

Both are anti-trinitarian. v21 does not read turn from sin to God, the Lord Yeshua, who is also the Messiah. Rather God and the Messiah are depicted as 2 different beings: God is who you turn to and the Messiah is the one you put your trust in.

v28 uses the singular pronoun 3 times in relation to God, in his unitarian nature. It does not refer to "the Father" which one might rationalize is one part of a multi-part Godhead but rather a singular God in his unitarian nature - as clarified by multiple uses of singular pronouns. v28 does not read to shepherd God's Messianic community, which he won at the cost of his own blood. This is because everyone knows God is Spirit and does not have flesh and blood.
 
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