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Secession should be considered and allowed

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics Forum' started by Stranger, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Patient Mary, Never mind. Forget my questions. You will never answer them. But I will answer yours. Of course, I would rather be a slave owner than a slave. Now what?

    Stranger
     
  2. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Hi Stranger,

    Why would you rather be the owner?

    Mary
     
  3. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I just would. Who would not rather be the owner than the slave?

    Stranger
     
  4. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Dear friend,

    I agree with you. Everyone would rather be the owner.

    According to your previous post on this subject, I thought we were already slaves? Now you would rather be the owner. What has changed?

    Mary
     
  5. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Nothing has changed.

    Stranger
     
  6. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Dear Stranger,

    Maybe i didn't word that correctly.

    If you are already the slave and life isn't that bad for you, why do you now prefer to be the slave owner and not the slave?

    I know why I would rather be the owner.

    Respectfully, Mary
     
  7. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    It is just part of human nature.

    Stranger
     
  8. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    I agree with you. It is part of human nature to want to be the master. Because as the slave you loose your dignity, freedom and free will. As the master you maintain all of those.

    Being a slave to God is not the same as being a slave to another man.

    Your statement that slavery is slavery is not accurate.

    Love, Mary
     
  9. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Lovely Mary, show me in Scripture that slavery is wrong. Slavery is slavery no matter who is the slave or master.

    Stranger
     
  10. tabletalk

    tabletalk Active Member

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    "Everyone would rather be the owner."
    No, this old boy would rather be the slave.
    You might ask why: Even though my "human nature" (old man) says it would be much better to be the slave owner, as a slave I would be almost forced to learn to submit to God. Much more suffering leads to much more submission. It would turn into joy.
     
  11. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    If there is nothing wrong with it then why not be the slave instead of the master?

    Curious Mary
     
  12. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I am a slave of God and Jesus Christ. It is my choice to be a slave of God. I have no choice to be the master.

    Now, show me in Scripture where slavery is wrong.

    Stranger
     
  13. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Hi Tabletalk,

    Stranger is equating human slavery to a slave of God. He is also suggesting that scripture is OK with human slavery.

    Mary
     
  14. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Dear Stranger,

    Exodus 21:16

    Would you ever submit to being a slave to another man?

    Mary
     
  15. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Now, again, show me in Scripture where slavery is wrong.

    Stranger
     
  16. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    You don't like Exodus? Not even going to debate it? How about Matthew 22:37-40? Would you take Jesus as a slave?

    Why would you never submit to being the slave of another man? Scripture doesn't say that slavery is wrong?

    Wait...I get it. It's ok to be a slave as long as it's not you?

    Curious Mary
     
  17. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    (Ex. 21:1-11) gives the laws of master slave relations. (Ex. 21:16) speaks to not stealing another man's servant. Israel could have slaves, they just couldn't steal from their brethren. (Deut. 24:7)

    Well, it's not wrong to be destitute either. But if you ask me if I want to be destitute or prosperous I will choose prosperous. Simple as that.

    It's ok to be destitute. But if I have my choice I choose prosperous. So?

    Stranger
     
  18. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Hi Stranger,

    Being destitute and being a slave to another man is not remotely the same. Your response is cute, but not logical or an equal comparison. You are once again trying to justify your belief to make yourself feel better. We generally have a choice to be destitute. It can be caused by no fault of our own but one can work their way out of destitution and some have worked their way into destitution by not budgeting correctly or making poor life choices. If the slave had a choice, they wouldn't choose to be a slave OR destitute. Just like you, that is your choice also, not to be a slave OR destitute. Slaves are both. And you think it's ok to force that upon them, but it's not something you would want for yourself. Interesting.o_O

    Based on your responses it sounds like you are ok with slavery because the bible doesn't condemn it. But your only ok with it as long as it's not you being the slave. Hypocritical? Which slave industry are you ok with? Human trafficking, forced labor, debt bondage, forced/servile marriage, commercial sexual exploitation (sex slavery)?

    You didn't address my Matthew 22 question. Why? Because it doesn't fit into YOUR belief? Only quote scripture that fits YOUR opinion and ignore the rest? I will address it: Shouldn't we show slaves love with all our heart, soul and mind? Shouldn't we love them as we love ourselves? You love yourself so much that you have already admitted you would not want to be a slave. But your ok with someone else being a slave? Does your love die for someone once they become a slave or you find out they are a slave?

    If you lived in a country that slavery was legal would you own a slave? Or would you comply with Matthew 7:12?

    Would you ignore Jesus commandment in John 15:12? Or are you just ok with slave owners ignoring it?

    Did the NT laws negate the OT laws?

    Curious Mary
     
  19. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Manipulative Mary, I didn't address (Matt. 22) because it has nothing to do with the institution of slavery, which you saw that God gave in (Ex. 21:1-11). Which you ignored. Why?

    The question is not rather I would want to be a slave or not. That is just your 'cute' response. And I at least answered you. The question was and is, was the War between the States over slavery? Which argument you cannot win, thus you try and manipulate the discussion over the 'right' of slavery. Which you cannot also win because you cannot show that God is against slavery.

    Nothing wrong with loving a slave as yourself. (Matt. 7:12) says nothing about the institution of slavery. (John 15:12) says nothing about the institution of slavery.

    If I live in a country where slavery is legal, that doesn't mean I have to own a slave. But, if I was involved in a business where a slave would be profitable to own, then why wouldn't I? Nothing in Scripture says I shouldn't own a slave.

    The New Testament did not negate slavery.

    So, you see, as much as you want the South to be hated for slavery, because that is the whipping post the abolitionists and the north used to attack the South, salvery was protected by the north, by the union, by the Constitution, by the Bible. Which makes the north the traitors, not the South. Which makes you wrong...not the South.

    Keep waving the bloody flag, manipulative Mary, we have seen it before.

    Stranger
     
  20. Marymog

    Marymog Active Member

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    Dear, Dear Stranger,

    I have not ignored your quotes from the OT. I addressed it in the last question from my post, which you failed to completely answer: Did the NT laws negate the OT laws (plural)? You say the NT did not negate the OT law of slavery (singular). That was very cute of you. Nice dodge. It didn't work. Is that the only law from the OT the NT did not negate? What about all the laws in Leviticus?

    You ask:
    Was the war between the States over slavery? I will answer once again: Yes. (Please refer to my previous post for full response) Please stop beating that dead horse.....He can't do what you want it to do....It's dead!!!!

    You stated if you were involved in a business where a slave would be profitable to own AND said if you lived in a country were slavery was legal then why wouldn't you own a slave? That takes us back to Matthew 22:37-40 which says in part that the second commandment, love your neighbor as yourself, is LIKE the first and greatest commandment. ALL THE LAW hangs on these two commandments. So how do you justify loving yourself so much that you would never consider being taken a slave but you don't love your neighbor enough to not enslave him or free him from slavery? You say Matthew 22 has nothing to do with slavery. Is a slave not your neighbor? Or are they non-humans to you. Why do you ignore this NT law but adhere to the OT slavery law? I assure you if you were ever a slave, I would make every effort to free you.

    You make it very clear that you are ok with following the OT slavery laws or at least allowing to happen. But you ignore the NT law of Matthew 7:12: In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets. IN EVERYTHING, except slavery of course according to Stranger and his ilk!!!! You are a hypocrite when you say it's ok to make another man a slave but you don't want anyone making you a slave. You violate scripture with your immoral belief and you fulfill 2 Peter 3:16 to back up that belief.

    You pretend that John 15:12 means nothing: Love each other as I have loved you. To you supporting or agreeing with the enslaving of another man IS showing the love that He has shown you. How bizarre.


    You act as if John 15:10 was never written: If you keep my commands you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. Can you show me a command that Jesus gave to continue slavery?


    I NEVER said I want the south to be hated for slavery. Our discussion is about SLAVERY...period. YOU quoted from the OT passages that supports YOUR southern, outdated and immoral beliefs. Neither I nor scripture said anything about SOUTHERN slavery. Only you have. And you call me manipulative Mary? Based on your lies I should start calling you lying stranger.

    I will proudly wave the "bloody flag". You wanna know why it is bloody? The blood on the flag is from the men and women who fought and died to end a morale evil that Jesus never supported.

    Another question you conveniently dodged: Which slave industry are you ok with? Human trafficking, forced labor, debt bondage, forced/servile marriage, commercial sexual exploitation (sex slavery)?

    Which do you choose Stranger?

    Curious Mary
     
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