Secure Eternal Salvation

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BreadOfLife

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btw in Syriac:
Ke'pha -- a pebble; a small, moveable stone
Shu'a -- a boulder or bedrock
Nice try . . .

BTW - iin ARAMAIC, which is the lamnguage Jesus and the Apostles spole . . .
Képhas: "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Original Word: Κηφᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Képhas
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-fas')
Definition: "a rock", Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter
Usage: Cephas (Aramaic for rock), the new name given to Simon Peter, the apostle.

So Gods church is built on a pebble?

Lol
Nope - it's built on a ROCK (Kapha).
See above . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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lol!

that or the peshitta, which is at least 4 or 500 years later than Matthew, is wrong, and "That Rock was Christ"
Ummmmm, from the Peshitta:
Aramaic:
ܐܴܦ݂ ܐܷܢܳܐ ܐܴܡܰܪ ܐ̱ܢܳܐ ܠܴܟ݂ ܂ ܕܱ݁ܐܢ̄ܬ݁ ܗ̄ܽܘ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܂ ܘܥܰܠ ܗܳܕ݂ܶܐ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐܐܷܒ݂ܢܶܝܗ ܠܥܺܕ̱݁ܬ݁ܝ܂ ܘܬ݂ܱܪ̈ܥܶܐ ܕܱ݁ܫܝܽܘܠ ܠܴܐ ܢܶܚܣܢܽܘܢܳܗ܂


English:
“Again I say to you that you are the Rock (Kepha), and upon this Rock (Kepha) I will build my Church, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it.”

The Aramaic word "Kepha" is in BOTH places.
Sorry, dude . . .
 
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theefaith

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since 'catholic' literally means 'universal' i've decided to call myself a catholic.

i believe God has sheep all over the world; some among wolves, some among goats, probably some among gnomes & faeries - God knows.
John 10.

would you please ask your associate Mssr. Webster if he is amenable to my decision?

pan-Christian is a condemned heresy
Only one true church of Jesus Christ founded on Peter and the apostles
The body of Christ is a physical unity based on faith
 

theefaith

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Jesus answered and said unto him,
If a man love Me, he will keep My words:
and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him,
and make Our abode with him.

(John 14:23)

Thus saith the LORD:
Cursed be the man that trusteth in man
(Jeremiah 17:5)

all His covenants are personal. in Genesis 15, Abraham fell into a deep sleep ((see Genesis 2))
and God passed between the parts, alone - in two visages with a flame and smoke between.
it is God who wills and works, and God knows that every pope at his best is worthless ((Psalm 39:5)) - as all men

worship God and Him only
there is no one without sin.
not Peter. not Mary. not your saints-declared-by-men. not your statuaries;
neither your beads nor any ((every)) high hill.
no one but God:

JESUS OF NAZARETH

jude 1:3 common salvation
Only one new covenant not billions
 

Pearl

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On a site like this with Christians from all over the world agreeing on the basics of our faith it beats me why Catholics can’t see that their beliefs are out of step with the rest of the Church.

Christians worldwide follow Jesus in a personal relationship with him but it seems to me that Catholics follow the ordinances of mere men and will never agree that a personal relationship with God through Jesus is even possible.

We may not agree on certain doctrines but we do agree that there was a time we were not Christians and a time when we were born again into God’s family, we agree that we need the Holy Spirit to empower us and guide us, we agree that Jesus is our High Priest and that we are a Royal priesthood of believers.

But Catholic people on the other hand, it seems, remain doggedly committed to the doctrines laid down by men who took the Church as it was, with people ministering to people with no need of priests of clergy and made it into a spectator event where a small minority were given precedence over the people who had to just shut up and believe what they were told to believe.
 
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theefaith

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Pretty sure a person calling themselves a Christian is believing Jesus is the Christ, and Jesus’ Father exclusively IS the Holy Father.

John 17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said...
[11] ...Holy Father...

Isa 22:21-22 the holder of the keys is called father
 

BreadOfLife

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On a site like this with Christians from all over the world agreeing on the basics of our faith it beats me why Catholics can’t see that their beliefs are out of step with the rest of the Church.

Christians worldwide follow Jesus in a personal relationship with him but it seems to me that Catholics follow the ordinances of mere men and will never agree that a personal relationship with God through Jesus is even possible.

We may not agree on certain doctrines but we do agree that there was a time we were not Christians and a time when we were born again into God’s family, we agree that we need the Holy Spirit to empower us and guide us, we agree that Jesus is our High Priest and that we are a Royal priesthood of believers.

But Catholic people on the other hand, it seems, remain doggedly committed to the doctrines laid down by men who took the Church as it was, with people ministering to people with no need of priests of clergy and made it into a spectator event where a small minority were given precedence over the people who had to just shut up and believe what they were told to believe.
This is complete nonsense.

First of all – you ignorantly make a distinction between “Christians” and “Catholics”. I shouldn’t have to remind you that Catholics were the very FIRST Christians. Your P{rptestant Fathers came out from the Catholic Church.

Secondly – everything above in RED is also true for Catholic Christians.
YOUR charge that we reject the Holy Spirit’s guidance in favor of blindly following “mere men” is patently false. You need to provide proof from the Catechism if you're going to make that kind of idiotic claim.

This post is a PRIME example of why it is necessary for a guy like me to be here in the first place – because YOU people cannot police yourselves when it comes to being dishonest.

I have NO tolerance for dishonesty on a forum like this.
HOWEVER, if you would like to rationally discuss the differences between Catholics and Protestants – I’m ALL ears . . .
 
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Eternally Grateful

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jude 1:3 common salvation
Only one new covenant not billions
yes

Salvation by grace through faith

It is grace by which we are saved. not works

We receive it in faith or we reject it in unbelief.

those are the only two options.

If we try to receive it by faith plus works. we in essence have rejected grace and thus rejected in unbelief.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Isa 22:21-22 the holder of the keys is called father
20 ‘Then it shall be in that day,
That I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah;
21 I will clothe him with your robe
And strengthen him with your belt;
I will commit your responsibility into his hand.
He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem
And to the house of Judah.
22 The key of the house of David
I will lay on his shoulder;
So he shall open, and no one shall shut;
And he shall shut, and no one shall open.

this concerns the city of Jerusalem. The house of Judah, and the house of David (Israel)
 

theefaith

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Your only a child of God if you obey the true gospel of Christ.

obey??? That’s works???

You need to seek your soul and dee if you have done that.

he who will lose his life shall save it

The true gospel is as moses lifted the serpent, so must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believed (true saving faith) in him will NEVER DIE but has eternal life (2 ways of saying they will never die) for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him will never perish but has eternal life (4 times Jesus said they will never die if they have true saving faith and are born again) For God did not send his son to judge the world. But that the world may be saved, He who believes is not condemned (eternal life) he who does nt believe is condemned already. For that have not believed.

never faith alone! If you love me keep my commandments

Thats gospel 101 my friend. The believers will never perish. The non believers are already in a condemned state.

Now what you have to determine, is what is a true believer IN CHRIST

If you claim to be a true beige in christ, But believe you can still perish. Well then you need to refocus your thinking, and go internal and ask yourself if you really believe in christ after all. Because why do you NOT believe in what Jesus himself said. That goes for all people. Catholic or protestant

mk 16:16 baptism required to be a Christian
 

Eternally Grateful

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mk 16:16 baptism required to be a Christian
lol

So you make a who doctrine on one verse. Ignoring everything Jesus said in john, that did not mention baptism.

Anyway, I agree. Baptism is required. Holy Spirit Baptism, which is an act of Gos at the moment of faith

not water baptism. which is a work of righteousness.

not of works lest anyone should boast.

stop boasting of your baptism and give God the credit for him personally baptizing you into him, is my recommendation.
 

theefaith

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There is only one church, no branches Jn 10:16

men have real authority from Christ to govern the church and teach all nations and save souls.

Peter is already administering the kingdom

Matt 17:24-27

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Only Peter and his successors have the keys (jurisdictional authority) from Christ to govern the church and administer the kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Isa 22:21-22

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,

Matt 16:17-19
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments


Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed

The successors of Moses having kingdom authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Mt 23 was taken from them Mt 21:43 and given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: Mt 16:18 Mt 18:18 and Jesus says this power and authority is to be obeyed!

Rom 13:2
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
(If it applies to civil authority, how much more to religious authority)

Mt 28:18-20
all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end!

Lk 10:16 He who hears you hears me...
(The apostles and their successors)

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!

Hierarchy is the nature of authority!

Jn 20:21

Peter is the one who calls for Judas Iscariot to be replaced, leading to the election of the Apostle Matthias (Acts 1:15-26).
Peter is the one who preaches the sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40).
When they are called before the Jewish authorities, Peter is the one who gives the speech in their defense (Acts 4:8-12).
Peter is the one who confronts Annanias and Sapphira about their lie (Acts 5:3-9).
The people of Jerusalem place the sick in the streets so that Peter's shadow might fall on them (Acts 5:15).
When the apostles are imprisoned as a group, miraculously freed, and then appear before the authorities, Peter speaks for them, saying that they must obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29-32).
Peter confronts Simon Magus (Acts 8:20-23).
Peter heals the paralyzed Aeneas (Acts 9:32-34).
Peter raises Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:37-41)
Peter’s name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Mt 10:2, Mk 3:16, Lk 6:14, Acts 1:13), except Galatians 2.
Peter is named first amongst the list of the apostles. (Matthew 10:2).
Peter alone receives a new name, Rock, solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42, Mt 16:18).
Peter is regarded by Jesus as the Chief Shepherd after himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28, 1 Pt 5:2).
Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his “faith may not fail” (Lk 22:32).
Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to “strengthen your brethren” (Lk 22:32).
Peter first confesses Christ’s divinity (Mt 16:16).
Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).
At God’s behest, Peter admits the first gentiles to the Church (Acts 10-11).
Peter (unlike James son of Zebedee) is miraculously delivered from prison and martyrdom (Acts 12:1-18).
Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.
Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).
Peter gave the sermon at Pentecost (Acts 1:14-36)
Peter led the replacing of Judas (1:22),
Peter worked the first miracle of the Church age (3:6-12).
Peter’s name appears at least 54 times in Acts;
 

theefaith

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yes

Salvation by grace through faith

It is grace by which we are saved. not works

We receive it in faith or we reject it in unbelief.

those are the only two options.

If we try to receive it by faith plus works. we in essence have rejected grace and thus rejected in unbelief.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Love required deut. 6:5, 1 cor 13:2, gal 5:6

obedence Heb 13:7, Heb 13:17

patience 1 Tim 6:11, Heb 6:12
 

theefaith

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20 ‘Then it shall be in that day,
That I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah;
21 I will clothe him with your robe
And strengthen him with your belt;
I will commit your responsibility into his hand.
He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem
And to the house of Judah.
22 The key of the house of David
I will lay on his shoulder;
So he shall open, and no one shall shut;
And he shall shut, and no one shall open.

this concerns the city of Jerusalem. The house of Judah, and the house of David (Israel)

Jesus gave these keys to Peter