Seventh Day Adventist Beliefs

[Enoch111]

What a monstrous abomination of Seventh day Adventism!

In all fairness (and Christians are to judge righteously in all things) I don't believe you can call their doctrines an abomination, or call them a cult (as Walter Martin and others have done). Out of 28 fundamental beliefs there are seven which in my opinion are questionable. But when it comes to the core doctrines of Scripture, God, Christ, and salvation, and the Christian walk, there is no deviation from the Bible.

 

[Enoch111]

Christ is the Archangel Michael.

That's what JWs believe. But that's not in the SDA Statement of Faith.

 

[brakelite]

What a monstrous abomination of Seventh day Adventism!

People, here you SEE the cowardice of the SDA system. What Enoch111 is here writing about, is their false doctrine that some special people, of course number one Mrs E.G. White, will resurrect before Christ comes again.

This thing to call it 'the rapture' is a new thing, having originated only round about the turn of the century and foremost through internet. Bob Ryan of BaptistBoard.com was a chief promulgator.

If there was ever an example of misunderstanding SDA teaching and formulating an attack based on that misunderstanding, this would take first prize.
SDAs cowards? Their belief in the so-called "secret rapture" an abomination? After all that Enoch wrote above and copied from SDA teachings, how on earth can anyone come to the conclusion that Adventists believe in the rapture? Gerhard, perhaps it is a language problem, but my friend Adventists do not believe in the "rapture". Nor do we believe people will resurrect before Christ comes...we resurrect at the second coming, and not a moment before. See "resurrection" in part1V above. It is Enoch, not Adventists, who believes in the rapture.

 

[brakelite]

Out of 28 fundamental beliefs there are seven which in my opinion are questionable.

Yes, people can raise questions regarding them, but as you see above in the fundamentals we publish, we do have a Biblical basis for those beliefs. They aren't pulled out of thin air, nor are they accepted without careful consideration and study.

That's what JWs believe. But that's not in the SDA Statement of Faith.

We do not believe the same as the JWs. They believe Michael is an angel...a created being. We believe the name Michael is merely the OT name of the Son of God. Being the Archangel does not reduce Jesus to a part of creation...it simply means He, as the Son of God, and in His divine capacity, is God's chief Messenger, Spokesman, Word of God, Mediator and Head over all the Angelic host...also called the Lord of hosts. All perfectly consistent with scripture.

 

[brakelite]

Which is when Seventh day Adventism as an organisation like all denominations disappoints and fails, and believers are forced to find hope and surety in Jesus Christ the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS ONLY.

The Scriptures! The Scriptures! The "'blind spot'" is Christianity's total blindness for the Scriptures!

If you peruse the first four posts of Enoch on page one, listing the fundamental beliefs of the church, you would note that every one has a scriptural basis. The only way anyone can rightly critique those beliefs is by taking a text from scripture which "appears " to be contrary to what we are teaching, but also by ignoring what we have listed as support above. Sure, bring your scripture to the table that you think is contrary to our beliefs, and I will show you how it complements, not contradicts, those texts we use as support for our doctrines..

 

[brakelite]

Annihilation- Damned spirits will not spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. They will cease to exist.

Yes, quite correct, because the wages of sin is death...not eternal life.

Christ is the Archangel Michael.

If from scripture you can prove Michael is a created angel, then we would instantly scrap that belief. Or perhaps you can prove that created angels can raise the dead to life?

Will the Earth be Desolate During the Millennium? Lifeless Earth

I really hope so, because trust me, I do not want to be in any clean-up team that is tasked with making the earth habitable after all the nuclear waste, and toxic fall-out and chemical residues that will permeate the planet after the events of the final weeks/months before Christ comes. The unburied bodies of men, and animals, birds and fish, covering the earth from one end to the other. The broken down cities, the mountains now levelled, the plains cracked and disfigured by the hailstones and earthquakes,...and the church teaches this will be a time of peace and glory unsurpassed in human history. Sorry, I'll pass.

 

[mjrhealth]

The second death is mentioned in the section on the millennium, so nah, not stupid, just in its right place chronologically. As to your assertion that all seventh day Adventists will be subject to that second death, based on your claim that they trust in their works for salvation, I can only refer you to the very last section of the first page. Or you could ask an Adventist perhaps to see if they think they are saved by their works. I think there's one or two around here somewhere....

I could of posted @Phoneman777 post about being judged by his works. but after 7 pages of searching, i gave up, not even i post that many posts in a week.

 

[brakelite]

I could of posted @Phoneman777 post about being judged by his works. but after 7 pages of searching, i gave up, not even i post that many posts in a week.

We are indeed judged by our works, and it may have been me who posted that recently. But that doesn't mean we are saved by them. There is a world of difference between being judged by works, and using works as a means to salvation.

 

[mjrhealth]

We are indeed judged by our works, and it may have been me who posted that recently. But that doesn't mean we are saved by them. There is a world of difference between being judged by works, and using works as a means to salvation.

But you see not all will be judged by there works, if we where all to be judged by our works, Heaven is going to be a very empty place, grace will not be by faith, a gift, and God would be a liar, and all Christ works and suffering would have being for nothing.

How is one judged by His works if it is for nothing???

 

[mjrhealth]

@brakelite you have a good heart, but religion is keeping you from His best as it does so many.

 

[brakelite]

But you see not all will be judged by there works, if we where all to be judged by our works, Heaven is going to be a very empty place, grace will not be by faith, a gift, and God would be a liar, and all Christ works and suffering would have being for nothing.

How is one judged by His works if it is for nothing???

In the following instruction given by Christ, how were the sheep and the goats divided? On what basis was one judged to be a sheep, and on what basis was one judged to be a goat? And what was the result of that judgement.... Rewards for good work done, or eternal destiny?

 

[brakelite]

In the following instruction given by Christ, how were the sheep and the goats divided? On what basis was one judged to be a sheep, and on what basis was one judged to be a goat? And what was the result of that judgement.... Rewards for good work done, or eternal destiny?

Now @mjrhealth I am not saying you are wrong...our works save no-one. Doing those good works did not turn a goat into a sheep. You see, one has to become a sheep first, by the grace of God, converted, born again, then, Jesus looks at our works and uses them as the standard by which He makes the decision as to whether our conversion was real, or whether we are just a goat in sheep's clothing.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Definitely. But that does not nullify the so-called *secret* Resurrection/Rapture.
[NOTE: Some people love to denigrate the Pre-tribulation Rapture by using *secret* pejoratively. But since it is only for the saints (not for the world) it is secret to the world. Which is GOOD THING.]

This verse is about the beginning of the Millennium after Christ establishes His Kingdom on earth. Which is AFTER the Second Coming, which is AFTER the Resurrection/Rapture. So the order of events is:

1. Resurrection/Rapture
2. The Tribulation
3. The Great Tribulation
4. The Second Coming
6. The Judgment of the Nations
7. The Millennium

Who is coming back with Jesus in the second coming. Paul says only the dead in Christ will come back with him, the alive and remain (on earth) will meet them in the air. If there was a secret resurrection and rapture, wouldn't they all return?

 

[CoreIssue]

That's what JWs believe. But that's not in the SDA Statement of Faith.

So what if it's not in their statement of faith. Even Brakelite has confirmed the belief.

Since wounded in the denomination or religion put everything it believes in a singular statement of faith?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Now @mjrhealth I am not saying you are wrong...our works save no-one. Doing those good works did not turn a goat into a sheep. You see, one has to become a sheep first, by the grace of God, converted, born again, then, Jesus looks at our works and uses them as the standard by which He makes the decision as to whether our conversion was real, or whether we are just a goat in sheep's clothing.

In other words, God saves one by grace, then looking at one's works, decides if He's not or if He's going to save one. Weird. A weird God or a weird church.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If there was ever an example of misunderstanding SDA teaching and formulating an attack based on that misunderstanding, this would take first prize.
SDAs cowards? Their belief in the so-called "secret rapture" an abomination? After all that Enoch wrote above and copied from SDA teachings, how on earth can anyone come to the conclusion that Adventists believe in the rapture? Gerhard, perhaps it is a language problem, but my friend Adventists do not believe in the "rapture". Nor do we believe people will resurrect before Christ comes...we resurrect at the second coming, and not a moment before. See "resurrection" in part1V above. It is Enoch, not Adventists, who believes in the rapture.

At least Enoch has the guts to mention his ideas about some sort of rapture whatever it may be. Nevertheless I know perfectly just what and which thing he is talking about. He is talking of the thing which you now and here try to defend with no success because you both believe the same fraud.

But you go on about my supposed ignorance concerning the rapture Enoch refers to as though it never existed in SDA theology and confession, IGNORING everything I specified concerning it being but a new name for an old heresy of the SDA -- the one, the "'special resurrection'", you believe in just like Enuch. Or you are a SDA ignorant about your own doctrine.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

At least Enuch has the guts to mention his ideas about some sort of rapture whatever it may be. Nevertheless I know perfectly just what and which thing he is talking about. He is talking of the thing which you now and here try to defend with no success because you both believe the same fraud.

But you go on about my supposed ignorance concerning the rapture Enuch refers to as though it never existed in SDA theology and confession, IGNORING everything I specified concerning it being but a new name for an old heresy of the SDA -- the one, the "'special resurrection'", you believe in just like Enuch. Or you are a SDA ignorant about your own doctrine.

Gerhard, do you think a person is saved by having the correct eschatology?

 

[quietthinker]

Agree. After my acceptance of Sabbath keeping as a legitimate Christian practice and certain other doctrines that I had come to believe in which was common with the Adventist church as shown above, it still took me 5 years before I was willing to actually join the church because of what I perceived as 'faults' and 'errors'. And I could use those very same excuses today to leave the church and become one of the great herd that gathers outside the door and criticises the church for its faults as if the great herd itself is now perfect and exempt. But I became an Adventist and committed myself to the church not because it was a perfect church, but because what they taught, and what they practiced, to my mind was the most practicable reproduction of the apostolic church to the needs , the pressures, the cultural dynamics and current worldview of this so unique present age. That it is growing faster than any Protestant denomination tells me that while they can certainly do better, they are doing some things right.
I still do not agree with everything that is done...there are disagreements within the church, among our theologians and the more lowly among us, which while dividing us in thought, do not divide us in mission. Women's ordination and issues over the trinity being examples, and in the 1970s the church did divide over the investigative judgement issue...and people still today criticise the church on how that issue was handled. Some still criticise the church over compromising over some minor teachings in order to bring us into more acceptance with orthodox Christianity simply for the sake of removing the then prevalent charges of being 'sectarian' or 'cultish'. Me, I couldn't care less what people think of us so long as they judge us by our fruit, and not by what they misunderstand concerning what we teach and believe. Those fruit include a second to none worldwide education system in size only second to the Catholic church, and a medical system that has clinics and hospitals all over the world serving communities in the most remote, and the most populated, areas. Unfortunately, some of our hospitals carry out abortions where it is adjudged the life of the mother is threatened. Some of us vehemently disagree with that. Some regret decisions made long ago that resulted in our educational institutions seeking secular accreditation which brought influences into our universities, our medical training centers (such as Loma Linda) etc that were distinctly contrary to the ideals etc upon which our church was founded, and has forced the church since to compromise in some areas. So we have our issues. Yet for a church only 160 years old, but which is almost alone in continuing the reformation, has only 20 million members (recently increasing by 1 million every year worldwide) has been singularly blessed by God and is serving communities all over the globe in numerous ways. Look up ADRA as an example, in being an organisation that for resources pales into insignificance compared to other aid agencies such as red cross, accomplishes so much more, bringing practical answers to people in need and staying with them, to ensure they grow. This of course in addition to the many lives radically changed by Christ through the efforts of our evangelists through such agencies as Adventist World Radio and numerous television channels and media outlets all around the world that God is using to reach the lost in areas previously unreachable. For example, local language I-pod recordings of the gospels now offered free to indigenous people in Africa who have never before heard the gospel. World Church: 'GodPod' Technology to Bring Gospel to Remote Peoples So why do I remain in my church despite it faults and short-comings? Because God is still working in it. And using it for His glory.

Thank you brakelite for that explanation.
I still keep my distance from institutions although from time to time I do venture through the doors of a Church in the hope that I can connect. The presentations are disappointing for the most part and have been such an irritation that I have got out of my seat and left wondering why I travelled the hundred kilometres
I care not to criticise neither do I want to be annoyed by the evasion and 'niceness' which I experience fronts as an excuse for a straight testimony. I often wonder where God's people are. Religious people, yes, they are around but they have nothing that attracts me.

 

[brakelite]

Thank you brakelite for that explanation.
I still keep my distance from institutions although from time to time I do venture through the doors of a Church in the hope that I can connect. The presentations are disappointing for the most part and have been such an irritation that I have got out of my seat and left wondering why I travelled the hundred kilometres
I care not to criticise neither do I want to be annoyed by the evasion and 'niceness' which I experience fronts as an excuse for a straight testimony. I often wonder where God's people are. Religious people, yes, they are around but they have nothing that attracts me.

Yes, been to some like that also. Its the human factor that is present anywhere we go. Some to a greater extent than others.

 

[Enoch111]

Who is coming back with Jesus in the second coming. Paul says only the dead in Christ will come back with him, the alive and remain (on earth) will meet them in the air. If there was a secret resurrection and rapture, wouldn't they all return?

RAPTURE
1. Souls and spirits of the "dead in Christ" come with Christ
2. They are given resurrected, glorified bodies for Heaven
3. Living saints perfected, transformed, glorified, and raptured
4. All these saints meet the Lord in the air and return to Heaven
5. All of this happens within nanoseconds (*the twinkling of an eye*)

SECOND COMING
After the Marriage of the Lamb, all the saints and angels from Heaven accompany Christ who comes down to earth for the battle of Armageddon.
See Revelation 19.