Should Christians Celebrate Christmas?

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Buzzfruit

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Why wait til Midwinter?

Because otherwise people would be too drunk to get any work done during the year.

And you are saying that they don't get drunk as it now is? And who are these people that you are talking about...Christians or unbelievers? I am talking about Christians......I am not interested in trying to get unbelievers to stop celebrating Christmas......Jesus is the farthest thing from their minds.....they are not interested in Jesus. I guarantee you, if Christians celebrated Jesus’ birth on another day or month it would not matter one bit to those in the world......they would continue the Christmas calibration on December 25.

But are we that immature that we would feel left out so we are not wiling sever ourselves from their day of self indulgence and materialism?



Oh and by the way, I don't think the first Christians in Northern Europe were all that sincere (apart from the saints like Wilfred and Cuthbert) because it was their kings that made the decision for them to convert not themselves. King Edwin of Northumbria was converted by St Paulinus and his Queen Aethelburga but when Ewin died the kingdom was invaded by Mercia (pagans kingdom) and fell into mass apostacy, so no I don't think the general populace were particularly eager to convert to Christianity. Back then kings had alters to many Gods and they saw ours as just one of the est and even when they were Christians, they still kept the pagan shrines going.

Anyway, yous till ahvn't told me how you observe Christmas.

I am not into it but some of members of the Church that I attend keep it.
 

Templar81

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Well I'm not a puritan you see. I believe that Christians should have fun and that Jesus had fun. Think about when he turned water into wine at Caner. He was at a wedding celebration. If he didn't believe people should enjoy themselves then he wouldn't have done it. He'd have told them to drink water isntead.

We celebrate CHrist's coming all year, of course and I do just as we dion't need Easter to celebrate his ressurrection as we can do that everytime we take part in the Eucharist.

Seriosuly though, why not have a set time of the year when people can get together and have a special celebration of Jesus coming.

I dn't udnerstand why thee is such hostility to tradition on thsi forum because practically everything is man made anyway, even the Bible. Man wrote it and man put it together but Goc endorsed it.
 

Buzzfruit

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Well I'm not a puritan you see. I believe that Christians should have fun and that Jesus had fun. Think about when he turned water into wine at Caner. He was at a wedding celebration. If he didn't believe people should enjoy themselves then he wouldn't have done it. He'd have told them to drink water isntead.

We celebrate CHrist's coming all year, of course and I do just as we dion't need Easter to celebrate his ressurrection as we can do that everytime we take part in the Eucharist.

Seriosuly though, why not have a set time of the year when people can get together and have a special celebration of Jesus coming.

I dn't udnerstand why thee is such hostility to tradition on thsi forum because practically everything is man made anyway, even the Bible. Man wrote it and man put it together but Goc endorsed it.

I never said Christians can't go to weddings.......what does that have to do with what I am talking about? You can't enjoy yourself unless you celebrate Christmas? I enjoy myself everyday......I don't need to have any special going on to enjoy myself......I enjoy life. I partake of beer or wine occasionally but when I do it don’t do it to enjoy life. It’s a sad existence if one needs to drink, have a party or go to a wedding in order to enjoy life.

People will defend what they love.....good or bad. So defending it and loving it does not mean it is good. What’s wrong with celebrating Jesus’ birth on another day?
 

Comm.Arnold

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Santa Claus is a lie that is told to children. He is given 'qualities' like Jesus. "He knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good..." When they find out that Santa is a lie then why should they believe in Jesus?

Did I mention Jer 10 ?

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (KJV)
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

How can you even compare the two ? You sound crazy, or you are surrounded by some not smart people.
 

Duckybill

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How can you even compare the two ? You sound crazy, or you are surrounded by some not smart people.
Santa is a lie. Do you lie to kids?

Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
 

Duckybill

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Do you decorate trees?

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (KJV)
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
 

Comm.Arnold

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Santa is a lie. Do you lie to kids?

Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

:lol: You are the one comparing Jesus to santa clause.

Do you decorate trees?

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (KJV)
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

First of all I don't have to answer to you at all that is between God and I, second of all who appointed you judge ?
 

Duckybill

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:lol: You are the one comparing Jesus to santa clause.
I was quoting the words of a song about Santa, comparing that lie to Jesus. I was not comparing Santa to Jesus.

"He knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good..."
First of all I don't have to answer to you at all that is between God and I, second of all who appointed you judge ?
God's Word is the judge of all of us. And yes you will have to answer to God.

"Learn not the way of the heathen"
 

Comm.Arnold

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I was quoting the words of a song about Santa, comparing that lie to Jesus. I was not comparing Santa to Jesus.

"He knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good..."

God's Word is the judge of all of us. And yes you will have to answer to God.

"Learn not the way of the heathen"

Well you do seem awful worried about it, remember Matthew 6:27 "And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?"
 

FHII

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Then you will be celebrating Christmas. :p

Nope! I won't be and haven't for about 10 years. The main reason is what Pegg brought out when she quoted John 4:23 (I usually go with v. 24, but it says basically the same thing). The verse you gave Duckybill is pretty good too (Jer 10), but that is a side reason. The whole arguement about Santa Claus being modeled after Jesus is a good one too. I actually knew a person who wondered if Jesus was real after learning that Santa was a lie. I don't know if it happens often, but overall in society, you can't say people take Jesus very seriously.

Something Templar said got my attention:

"Do you know what would have happened if the Church suppressed these festival?

I'll tell you, people woud'l not have accepted Christianity in the first place or if they did then they would have apostacised because people back then wouldn't ahve stood for a religion that didn't allow celebrations."


It should be noted that he acknowledged the history of how Christmas came to be, and I agree with him. However, this is clearly an act of compromising the truth in order to gain "converts". I don't agree with this. Yes, it worked (sort of...) but I don't believe God needed to allow a lie to go forth to gather his sheep. Don't forget, ministers, preachers and missionaries don't win souls, the don't convert people, and they don't lead people to God. God uses them, but ultimately it is God that does it. He didn't need gimmicks or compromises. It seems like a lack of faith in God to think that if the Pope and the Roman Empire didn't compromise, then Christ wouldn't have been accepted. So I'm sorry Templar, I can't stand with you on this point.

As for the commercialization of Christmas. Yea, it's there, its terrible, and everyone knows its wrong. Funny thing is people still participate. Ain't that something.

I work with a lot of people who celebrate Christmas. In fact, I believe I am probably the only one who doesn't. I leave them alone and fully support their right to do it, as long as they leave me alone. The real funny thing is many of them don't want to accept I DON'T do it. They still leave me Christmas cards when I ask them not to. They still invite me to pre-work parties when I say I don't want to be invited. And then they cover it up with a lie: "It's not a Christmas party." Well, I see Christmas tree cookies, Santa Clause cookies, "Merry Christmas" paper plates and napkins, and Rudolph all over the place during these times.

So yes, I stand with what Buzzfruit and Pegg said.
 

FHII

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Good on you FHII,

now you just have to find a church who takes the same stance :lol:
What are you talking about? I have!
 

Buzzfruit

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Good on you FHII,

now you just have to find a church who takes the same stance :lol:

One does not have to leave a Church that celebrate Christmas......a person can still be there but not participate in the Christmas celebration. And if they say don't you believe in celebrating Jesus' birth? You can say, I do it everyday...I don't need a particular day to do that.
 

brionne

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One does not have to leave a Church that celebrate Christmas......a person can still be there but not participate in the Christmas celebration. And if they say don't you believe in celebrating Jesus' birth? You can say, I do it everyday...I don't need a particular day to do that.

i dont really believe that a christian church who participates in such things is being led by Gods spirit though. And if Gods spirit is not with a christian church....then how can the members of that church have Gods spirit?

Jesus said his church would be guided by the 'helper' the holy spirit.
 

Buzzfruit

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i dont really believe that a christian church who participates in such things is being led by Gods spirit though. And if Gods spirit is not with a christian church....then how can the members of that church have Gods spirit?

Jesus said his church would be guided by the 'helper' the holy spirit.

You never know....God could use one individual to get the Church start thinking about a lot of things that they blindly do.
 

tim_from_pa

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I bookmarked that video to watch on a day when my work is caught up, as it is rather long. However, I did glimpse the beginning of it and his outline of that program, and some excerpts e.g. the Vatican and the solar wheel.

Let me reminisce a little for those who want to join me. Back before the Internet, we basically had the TV, radio, newspaper and magazines to read and was fed to us what they told us. I have a feeling this video is more of the same history of the pagan sources of Christmas, which most Christians did not know prior to say, 30 years ago except folks from say the WWCG or other such "cults" we were warned about. But lately, information and ministries that point out this same thing have exploded with the information age, and I doubt there's any serious Christians ignorant of this any longer. 30 years ago it may have been "controversial", but today most know the pagan origins IMO.

From my stance, although I outwardly conform to the Christmas celebration in the sense of family gatherings, and decorations and all that, I openly admit it's a solar, solstice festival and a nice midwinter party, nothing else. I rarely go to church on that day any longer as from a Christian perspective, it means nothing to me personally. Rather, I tell people about God's festivals in Leviticus, and I'm constantly conscious of the ancient Israelite calendar which was and is actually lunar based, not solar based like the pagan sun-god worship. The sun only measured the days, that was it, and the seasons were reckoned by the ripening of the barley (as opposed to solar observation) so that intercalation of the lunar months kept in exact timing with a solar year. Except for the seasons, there is no need to reckon the calendar by the sun at all, and indeed, they did not do so.

However, I must admit I have a special place in my heart for the physical sun --- it's the natural counterpart to the light of God (as a type) and keeps my house warm even in the winter without the furnace going on much. I love to make sundials so the sun is always an interest to me, so Christmas is really the birth of the sun to me since it's declination is starting to make a positive upswing again, and we can look to warmer days. It's not worshiping, merely a thankfulness and fondness for our nearest star.

I can see why the ancients worshiped the sun --- although that is wrong, it is an honest mistake.
 

Comm.Arnold

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Nope! I won't be and haven't for about 10 years. The main reason is what Pegg brought out when she quoted John 4:23 (I usually go with v. 24, but it says basically the same thing). The verse you gave Duckybill is pretty good too (Jer 10), but that is a side reason. The whole arguement about Santa Claus being modeled after Jesus is a good one too. I actually knew a person who wondered if Jesus was real after learning that Santa was a lie. I don't know if it happens often, but overall in society, you can't say people take Jesus very seriously.

Can you tell us about this experience ? I find this very hard to believe.
 

brionne

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You never know....God could use one individual to get the Church start thinking about a lot of things that they blindly do.

Matthew 24:45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

If the slave is appointed by God, its because they are a faithful slave. But Jesus gave an illustration to show that not all the slaves are faithful so we need to be very wary of which slave we choose to follow:

Mathew 25:14-29 “For it is just as when a man, about to travel abroad, summoned slaves of his and committed to them his belongings. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, to still another one, to each one according to his own ability, and he went abroad. 16 Immediately the one that received the five talents went his way and did business with them and gained five more. 17 In the same way the one that received the two gained two more. 18 But the one that received just one went off, and dug in the ground and hid the silver money of his master.
19 “After a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20 So the one that had received five talents came forward and brought five additional talents, saying, ‘Master, you committed five talents to me; see, I gained five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 Next the one that had received the two talents came forward and said, ‘Master, you committed to me two talents; see, I gained two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’
24 “Finally the one that had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be an exacting man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went off and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him, ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you ought to have deposited my silver monies with the bankers, and on my arrival I would be receiving what is mine with interest.
28 “‘Therefore TAKE away the talent from him and give it to him that has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone that has, more will be given and he will have abundance; but as for him that does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.’