Messiah 2030

[covenantee]

`...the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple (Naos) of God, showing himself that he is God.` (2 Thess. 2: 4)

The Temple built by Solomon, the Temple frequented by Jesus and His Disciples were both built on Mount Moriah. Ezekiel predicts that another will be constructed on the same place after Jesus returns in Glory.

Every reference to all three Temples on this site was a translation of the Greek Word "Hieron".

Any "Temple" erected elsewhere was invariably from the Greek word "Naos". This word is frequently rendered "Meeting Place", "Dwelling" or "Synagogue". It is the later word "Naos" that is used by Paul (2 Thess 2:4) in reference to the Temple used by contemporary Israel. It has
absolutely no connection exegetically with the site on Mt. Moriah. In fact there is no prerequisite for it to be built there. To the contrary, in line with Greek usage, it must be constructed elsewhere.

Quote from Ps. A. Gardiner)

Another important detail is that the `temple` the A/C sets himself up in does NOT have a veil blocking off the most holy place. Instead the people can see the image set up. This is a picture of the altar in Jerusalem`s temple today without the veil.

View attachment 64808

Paul is consistent in his identification of and distinction between the different temples.

His "naos" temples refer exclusively to NT believers within the NT Church.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

Ephesians 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

 

[Marilyn C]

Paul is consistent in his identification of and distinction between the different temples.

His "naos" temples refer exclusively to NT believers in the NT Church.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

Ephesians 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

So the A/C is going to set himself up in our body?

 

[covenantee]

So the A/C is going to set himself up in our body?

The man of sin was already setting himself up and seating himself down in the Church when Paul wrote. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-7.

 

[Marilyn C]

The man of sin was already setting himself up in the Church when Paul wrote. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-7.

`...so that he sits in the temple, showing himself that he is God.` (2 Thess. 2: 4)

`...he who restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way, and THEN the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth, and destroy with the brightness of His coming.` (2 Thess. 2: 7 & 8)

All very literal.

 

[covenantee]

`...so that he sits in the temple, showing himself that he is God.` (2 Thess. 2: 4)

`...he who restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way, and THEN the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth, and destroy with the brightness of His coming.` (2 Thess. 2: 7 & 8)

All very literal.

Both literal and spiritual.

 

[Marilyn C]

Both literal and spiritual.

Doesn`t make sense spiritual. And God`s word always interprets His own symbols. And they are NOT symbols.

 

[covenantee]

Doesn`t make sense spiritual. And God`s word always interprets His own symbols. And they are NOT symbols.

To reiterate, all of Paul's "naos" temples are spiritual.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't book mark them, but if you read thru some of the posts on here you can tell some of these folks hate the Jews claiming Christians took their place and God hates the Jews now.

Nope. I don't see that at all. I see people pointing out how Jesus rebuked unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and scribes for their hypocrisy and told them that their father is the devil and such. How does pointing that out mean someone hates Jews? It doesn't. You have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[Marilyn C]

To reiterate, all of Paul's "naos" temples are spiritual.

Not in 2 Thess. 2: 4 Acts 7: 48.

 

[covenantee]

Not in 2 Thess. 2: 4 Acts 7: 48.

If Paul had meant a literal physical temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he would have used "eidóleion" or "hieros/hieron", as he did in the other Scriptures that I cited.

Paul wasn't speaking or writing in Acts 7:48.

 

[Marilyn C]

If Paul had meant a literal physical temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he would have used "eidóleion" or "hieros/hieron", as he did in the other Scriptures that I cited.

Paul wasn't speaking in Acts 7:48.

No, the Holy Spirit knew exactly what word to use - Naos, NOT the Temple on the sacred site - hieron.

 

[covenantee]

No, the Holy Spirit knew exactly what word to use - Naos, NOT the Temple on the sacred site - hieron.

Yes, and He used the same word as in every other occurrence of "naos" that He inspired Paul to write.

Every one, the spiritual temple.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dougggg you added in where his palace will be, The Holy Mount is Jerusalem, Between the Dead Sea and Mediterranean Sea in Jerusalem, this does not say anywhere specific besides Jerusalem overall, but here is how you jump tom wrong conclusions.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:15, that the abomination of desolation will be standing in the holy place, i.e. on the temple mount.

The AoD is the 1290, not the 1260 which comes 30 days later. The AoD is not the AC/Beast. Rev. 13 tells us this if one will listen. The 2nd Beast got the people to make an IMAGE of the 1st Beast and worship him.

Those things just don't match up for the Antichrist to be a Muslim. The Antichrist will be a Jew who the Jews will think for a while is their long awaited king of Israel messiah.

You are both in error, all pf the Beasts before were GENTILE KINGS, and Antiochus Epiphanes was the Archetype. He will be born in Greece, which makes him an E.U. Citizen, this fulfilling both Dan. 7:7-8 and Daniel 8:9. Finally, he must have Old Assyrian Bloodline fulfilling Isaiah 10. God does this on purpose, those who solve it know that they know that they know. Like Jesus being born in Bethlehem AND coming out of Egypt. Both were true. He will not be a Muslim, nor a Jew, however the False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus Epiphanes.


The two Archetypes had to live at the EXACT SAME TIME !!

 

[Gottservant]

The question is "what would the return of the Messiah mean, in terms of work for the kingdom, if it was in 2030?"

If the Lord has revealed to you, where your cross is taking you, you don't give much thought to these kind of things - you want to be watching for the Lord, regardless!

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, and He used the same word as in every other occurrence of "naos" that He inspired Paul to write.

Every one, the spiritual temple.

So how is the A/C going to `sit as God` in us?

 

[covenantee]

So how is the A/C going to `sit as God` in us?

Not "going to". Paul declared, "the mystery of iniquity doth already work". The seeds of iniquity were already being sown, and over the ensuing centuries would reveal the results in the form of the apostate papacy, which would take up residence within the spiritual temple of the Church, usurping and arrogating the spiritual power and authority which Christ had bestowed upon it. In form and function the apostate papacy would explicitly fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4, thus e.g. claiming:

1. “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
3. “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

There is no mistaking identities and characteristics involving the "naos" to which Paul was referring.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Was Jesus a calvinist who was actively preventing those Jews from getting saved?

According to the calvinists, Jesus was ignorant and did not know what He was talking about

Jesus said to go out in to the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY creature, but calvinists claim God only assigned salvation to just a few (and of course they claim only calvinists can be saved) so they must take the position that John Calvin is much smarter than Jesus and Jesus did not teach calvinism therefore they think Jesus is a false teacher.

These people are definitely off their rocker that's for sure!

 

[rebuilder 454]

LORD Jesus Christ = the ULTIMATE Post-Tribber = you need to believe Him and all that HE Says

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Yep
100% agrees with pretrib doctrine.

The part you need to go back and learn is how is Rev 14:14, and acts ch1, and matt 25, the exact same thing as Rev 19 ?( your misplacement of the rapture of the church)

 

[rebuilder 454]

`...the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple (Naos) of God, showing himself that he is God.` (2 Thess. 2: 4)

The Temple built by Solomon, the Temple frequented by Jesus and His Disciples were both built on Mount Moriah. Ezekiel predicts that another will be constructed on the same place after Jesus returns in Glory.

Every reference to all three Temples on this site was a translation of the Greek Word "Hieron".

Any "Temple" erected elsewhere was invariably from the Greek word "Naos". This word is frequently rendered "Meeting Place", "Dwelling" or "Synagogue". It is the later word "Naos" that is used by Paul (2 Thess 2:4) in reference to the Temple used by contemporary Israel. It has
absolutely no connection exegetically with the site on Mt. Moriah. In fact there is no prerequisite for it to be built there. To the contrary, in line with Greek usage, it must be constructed elsewhere.

Quote from Ps. A. Gardiner)

Another important detail is that the `temple` the A/C sets himself up in does NOT have a veil blocking off the most holy place. Instead the people can see the image set up. This is a picture of the altar in Jerusalem`s temple today without the veil.

View attachment 64808

I think that dude you are addressing is amil.
Which is a TOTALLY different bible.
They really need their own thread, because they challenge us from a weird angle.
You will be rocking along in a discussion and wonder why EVERY SINGLE POINT does not even come close to registering with them.

EVERYTHING you believe is different than them.

 

[David in NJ]

Yep
100% agrees with pretrib doctrine.

The part you need to go back and learn is how is Rev 14:14, and acts ch1, and matt 25, the exact same thing as Rev 19 ?( your misplacement of the rapture of the church)

Rapture of the Church only occurs at "His Coming" SINGULAR = Gospel, 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Cor ch15, Revelation

FYI = there is no room for 'pre-trib' in the Gospel and especially in "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days....I COME"