Should I buy a sword?

[markalan]

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Mat 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Why did Jesus instruct His disciples to buy a sword?
How should we apply this today?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Mat 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Why did Jesus instruct His disciples to buy a sword?
How should we apply this today?

>>>>>>>""How should we apply this today?
A similar question can be asked about Rom 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[markalan]

>>>>>>>""How should we apply this today?
A similar question can be asked about Rom 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Yes, that is interesting.
I have always thought that Romans 13:4 authorizes government agencies like the police & military to use physical force, and even kill if necessary.

Do you think Jesus was telling the disciples to get a sword for their personal protection?

 

[Armour of God]

Do you think Jesus was telling the disciples to get a sword for their personal protection?

I think so.
To defend themselves against evil attackers

 

[PeterAndroz]

Yes, that is interesting.
I have always thought that Romans 13:4 authorizes government agencies like the police & military to use physical force, and even kill if necessary.

Do you think Jesus was telling the disciples to get a sword for their personal protection?

""""Do you think Jesus was telling the disciples to get a sword for their personal protection?
Peter carried one & used it


Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die:
Paul accepted death if guilty of an offence where death is the penalty.
Rom 13:4
Since the teachings of Paul are from Christ, I expect that Christ does allow death for certain offences to be carried out by the powers that be but not by individual persons acting on their own behalf.

 

[markalan]

""""Do you think Jesus was telling the disciples to get a sword for their personal protection?
Peter carried one & used it

View attachment 85122
Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die:
Paul accepted death if guilty of an offence where death is the penalty.
Rom 13:4
Since the teachings of Paul are from Christ, I expect that Christ does allow death for certain offences to be carried out by the powers that be but not by individual persons acting on their own behalf.

You make a very good point ... though I am pretty sure I would use physical force to protect my family if someone was attacking them.

Peter thought he was protecting Jesus ... but of course we know that Jesus understood God's plan for Him to die.

Is the equivalent of a sword these days a gun? Are there any circumstances in which you would use a gun?

 

[markalan]

I think so.
To defend themselves against evil attackers

I have heard it said that the word for sword here (machaira) is more like a large knife which is sometimes used for butchering animals. Some have suggested that since Jesus was leaving them He was telling them they would now have to provide for themselves. What do you think of that idea?

And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.​

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.​

A large sword was called rhomphaia as in "a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." (Luke 2:35)

 

[SavedInHim]

I have heard it said that the word for sword here (machaira) is more like a large knife which is sometimes used for butchering animals. Some have suggested that since Jesus was leaving them He was telling them they would now have to provide for themselves. What do you think of that idea?

And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.​

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.​

A large sword was called rhomphaia as in "a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." (Luke 2:35)

A person would have to do some digging into history to get a better idea; but it makes as much sense as anything else I've heard, if not more. I've always had a problem with Jesus telling them to arm themselves.

 

[Rockerduck]

Jesus said it to fulfil this prophesy about Him from Isaiah 53:12

 

[Lambano]

I have heard it said that the word for sword here (machaira) is more like a large knife which is sometimes used for butchering animals. Some have suggested that since Jesus was leaving them He was telling them they would now have to provide for themselves. What do you think of that idea?

And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.​

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.​

A large sword was called rhomphaia as in "a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." (Luke 2:35)

I think you're on the right track here. The Disciples were under God's special protection while Jesus was here. The after-supper conversation from Luke 22:20-38 is about what's going to happen after Jesus leaves and they (we) no longer have God's special protection. Which involves betrayals, self-aggrandizing leaders, resource issues, and physical attacks. We have been warned.

 

[Lambano]

I have heard it said that the word for sword here (machaira) is more like a large knife which is sometimes used for butchering animals. ...

A large sword was called rhomphaia as in "a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed." (Luke 2:35)

Thank you for posting BLB concordance links. I note that the rhomphaia is more properly a javelin. It's kinda hard to carry one of those concealed in public.

 

[Rockerduck]

I think you're on the right track here. The Disciples were under God's special protection while Jesus was here. The after-supper conversation from Luke 22:20-38 is about what's going to happen after Jesus leaves and they (we) no longer have God's special protection. Which involves betrayals, self-aggrandizing leaders, resource issues, and physical attacks. We have been warned.

It was to fulfill a prophesy from Isaiah 53:12. Nothing more.

 

[quietthinker]

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Mat 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Why did Jesus instruct His disciples to buy a sword?
How should we apply this today?

It makes cutting carrots easier ie, having a sword. I mean, why else would I want to have one unless I aspire to be a pirate!

 

[Wrangler]

Should I buy a sword?

Of course, we should be prudent in all ways.

My SIL was approached at a Walmart parking lot with a would be robber. He used the cart to get some separation between him and the robber, reached for his concealed weapon and asked the aspiring profiteer if he "really wanted to do this." See my SIL with his hand on a firearm about to draw down on him caused him to reconsider his life choices. He peacefully walked away mumbling to himself.

The NRA has statistics that over 90% of firearm use is like above. Just brandishing it stops crimes. Praise God! That last thing criminals want is an armed society.

 

[Lambano]

I have heard it said that the word for sword here (machaira) is more like a large knife which is sometimes used for butchering animals.

 

[Lambano]

Should I buy a sword?​

I understand that the Aussie government has severe restrictions on the possession of swords.

In Japan (and Taiwan and China), this is no joke. Some of the buildings had multi-lingual warning signs stating that possession of any weapon, including guns, knives, and yes, swords, would subject the carrier to arrest. I had asked my host if where I could buy a souvenir samurai sword; I was shocked to find out that swords were still considered deadly weapons (even though souvenir-grade swords are typically blunted).

 

[Lambano]

It was to fulfill a prophesy from Isaiah 53:12. Nothing more.

7 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” - Luke 22:7

Was Jesus asking for props for a piece of prophetic-fulfillment performance art? Jesus was not above doing just that; see the donkey used in the Triumphal Entry, Mark 11:1-10 and synoptic parallels.

Jesus's context was about failing faith and how he'd previously sent the disciples out unprovisioned and unarmed, in contrast to what he was telling them to do now. I don't see how that fits the narrative of "Jesus was asking the disciples buy him a couple of stage props". What about the purses? And the money?

How does having a couple of buddies with swords count as "he was numbered with the trangressors"? When swords are outlawed, only outlaws will have swords? That wasn't the case in occupied Israel in 30 AD; the historical commentaries (NT Wright, John Barclay) says that travelers often carried a machiera to defend themselves against lestes (armed bandits, which is what Barabbas was). But the word ἀνόμοις ("anomois", meaning the lawless and by implication the Gentiles) used in the LXX translation Luke copies here doesn't really capture the flavor of the Hebrew פֹּשְׁעִים ("pash'im") in Isaiah 52:12: Rebels. (Nor does the English "transgressors" or sinners, for that matter.) Okay; maybe the purpose was to show Peter (who no doubt was one of the ones campaigning for who would be the greatest in the Kingdom) that he would soon be using his sword just like one of the rebels and traitors Messiah is prophetically accused of being with. (St. Simon the Zealot, present company NOT excepted.)

And then Messiah Himself would be executed for being a rebel and a traitor against God and against Caesar.

We'll leave this one open for now. I think the Isaiah reference is specifically a message to Peter.

 

[NayborBear]

For those who do not want to "dissuade" any wrong doing against you or yours?
Carry THIS instead!:

Instructions for use:
Whack both hands with the wrench, so he can't remove the paper clips you just attached to his nose and mouth!
Then while he's lying on the ground?
Throwing the shells at him should keep him busy until the cops arrive!

 

[Rockerduck]

7 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” - Luke 22:7

Was Jesus asking for props for a piece of prophetic-fulfillment performance art? Jesus was not above doing just that; see the donkey used in the Triumphal Entry, Mark 11:1-10 and synoptic parallels.

Jesus's context was about failing faith and how he'd previously sent the disciples out unprovisioned and unarmed, in contrast to what he was telling them to do now. I don't see how that fits the narrative of "Jesus was asking the disciples buy him a couple of stage props". What about the purses? And the money?

How does having a couple of buddies with swords count as "he was numbered with the trangressors"? When swords are outlawed, only outlaws will have swords? That wasn't the case in occupied Israel in 30 AD; the historical commentaries (NT Wright, John Barclay) says that travelers often carried a machiera to defend themselves against lestes (armed bandits, which is what Barabbas was). But the word ἀνόμοις ("anomois", meaning the lawless and by implication the Gentiles) used in the LXX translation Luke copies here doesn't really capture the flavor of the Hebrew פֹּשְׁעִים ("pash'im") in Isaiah 52:12: Rebels. (Nor does the English "transgressors" or sinners, for that matter.) Okay; maybe the purpose was to show Peter (who no doubt was one of the ones campaigning for who would be the greatest in the Kingdom) that he would soon be using his sword just like one of the rebels and traitors Messiah is prophetically accused of being with. (St. Simon the Zealot, present company NOT excepted.)

And then Messiah Himself would be executed for being a rebel and a traitor against God and against Caesar.

We'll leave this one open for now.

It was prophesied in Isaiah to be numbered and Jesus fulfilled it. It says what it is and is what it says. Jesus fulfilled all prophecies about Him. The disciples had to carry swords when the temple guards came to get Him, and appear that Jesus was with revolutionaries. This gives cause for Rome to arrest Jesus. But of course Jesus said put them away now. It was enough to be numbered with a band of sword carriers. That's why Jesus said "it is enough."

 

[lforrest]

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Mat 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Why did Jesus instruct His disciples to buy a sword?
How should we apply this today?

Matthew 26:52 seems to be a warning that when taking up arms not to expect God or his angels to defend you from the same. You take your life into your own hands.