Shunning

[aspen]

first oft, let me be clear; I have never experienced shunning here on CB, never. Even from brothers and sisters who abhor what I post. The charity I have experience here amazes me and I am grateful - cannot wait to eat you all. However, in my life, I have never been rejected by anyone, but Christians. And if I was keeping count (apparently I am) Catholics lead rejection 3 to 1. Although, right now, I am in danger of expulsion from a men's group that I have been meeting with for about 6 months because I recently relapsed after getting fired from a job I loved.

So, this brings up my topic; shunning. What is Biblical shunning? Is shunning effective? Do you practice shunning? What is the end goal? Is it effective in dealing with addiction?

 

[justaname]

Aspen,

UGH! I am so sorry to hear about your job situation and your recent relapse.

You are still in my prayers.

The goal of shunning is to bring the individual back into fellowship without the sin habit. I have never practiced it personally yet I know many that promote it and it is a biblical example of discipline (so in my estimation it must be effective).

Perhaps some are too quick to shun though, where the concept should first be confrontation to the individual with kindness, patience, and loving leading the individual to repentance. I see shunning as a last resort.

 

[pom2014]

I will ask a question of all of you, and preface with just the request that you simply answer the question without elaboration or explanation.

Alright then.

Would any of you desire to be shunned?

 

[FHII]

I will ask a question of all of you, and preface with just the request that you simply answer the question without elaboration or explanation.

Alright then.

Would any of you desire to be shunned?

No

 

[clark thompson]

he only time shunning should be done is when a believer is living as the world, this is after they are told time and time again to turn back to the Lord.

 

[justaname]

I will ask a question of all of you, and preface with just the request that you simply answer the question without elaboration or explanation.

Alright then.

Would any of you desire to be shunned?

If it effectively brought me out of sin and back to fellowship, yes.

 

[Alsett]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't this insinuate that the other people in the group are not sinning at all? I find this hard to believe. So in that case it is related to sins that have either been found out, been confessed, or is something impossible to hide, or that they are putting a hierarchy on sin and only punishing some sins. It seems a bit unfair. My sin struggle is desiring the acceptance of my peers over the acceptance of God (idolatry), and I'd say I "relapse" on a regular basis, but I don't imagine any group would shun me for this.

I would never shun someone especially in what is likely a huge time of need, and I would never join a group in which this is occurring.

If however as a group this has been decided on as a tool and everyone involved agrees to be shunned for whatever reasons they decide I won't speak against it, but I think it should be made clear to new members coming in.

 

[FHII]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't this insinuate that the other people in the group are not sinning at all? I find this hard to believe. So in that case it is related to sins that have either been found out, been confessed, or is something impossible to hide, or that they are putting a hierarchy on sin and only punishing some sins. It seems a bit unfair. My sin struggle is desiring the acceptance of my peers over the acceptance of God (idolatry), and I'd say I "relapse" on a regular basis, but I don't imagine any group would shun me for this.

I would never shun someone especially in what is likely a huge time of need, and I would never join a group in which this is occurring.

If however as a group this has been decided on as a tool and everyone involved agrees to be shunned for whatever reasons they decide I won't speak against it, but I think it should be made clear to new members coming in.

Yep... it pretty much does! I don't know what verses anyone is using to shun people, unless its 2 Thes 3:14. If so, it makes no mention that we shouldn't be like the world, be worldly or anything of the such. Personally I believe its saying to to separate yourselves from those who don't have sound doctrine. But if you want to stick to the nuts and bolts of what paul was saying, then stay away from freeloaders and gossipers.

 

[River Jordan]

I've only ever seen shunning accomplish one thing...push people farther apart. Usually those who shun have their senses of right/wrong and justice stunted at the punishment-reward stage. IOW, it's pretty childish and ineffective.

 

[pom2014]

If it effectively brought me out of sin and back to fellowship, yes.

Well so much for the preface.
For me its a resounding no.

If we follow the King we'd be the ones that leave not force others to.

But I'm sure the old wine "I was here first they should go" mentality would creep in.

Very sad that people would withhold communication. Its a dysfunctional way of resolving issues.

 

[FHII]

I've only ever seen shunning accomplish one thing...push people farther apart. Usually those who shun have their senses of right/wrong and justice stunted at the punishment-reward stage. IOW, it's pretty childish and ineffective.

River, have a look at the verse I mentioned in2 thes 3. There is reason to "shun" . But it must be done properly and for the right reasons. We should also look at rebukes in the same way. Pay attention to hebrews 12.

Above all, no one should ever look at correction as an opportunity to beat up on a fellow saint. We should stack it up vs our own behavior.

 

[Wormwood]

The purpose of "shunning" is to bring conviction and encourage a person to repent. I think it can be healthy and is a vital part of what it means to be a community of faith. Allow me to explain. If the church never "shunned" or restricted the definition of what it means to be part of the community of faith, then it simply cannot be distinct or holy. When a group of Christians say, "Because of your behavior and attitude, we cannot have you fellowship with us" they are showing that being a Christian MEANS something. The call of Christ is a high calling. Jesus often rejected people from following him if they were not ready to pay the price of discipleship. I imagine Jesus would get all kinds of hate mail today for telling the rich young ruler he cannot follow him unless he sells all his possessions. Jesus loved the man, but saw the man loved his wealth more than he loved God. Jesus was not trying to be "holier than thou" (although he certainly was), he was trying to show the man that being a disciple MEANS something and it is a high calling that should be a person's first priority in life.

Now, to Aspen's situation. From the sound of it, I am not sure these believers are correct in their action. If Aspen is struggling with this issue and knows its is sinful (which it sounds like you understand that) then what he needs is encouragement and prayer. If Aspen is not struggling with the issue and feels no shame about his behavior then that would be the proper time to exclude him from fellowship so that he might be convicted and realize that the community of faith in Christ does not accept or associate with such behavior. Hopefully, that act would open the person's eyes to see that the entire community will not align itself with such lifestyles as they are not in accordance with the holy calling of Christ. I think this is what Paul means when he says, "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." If someone is acting sinfully and is not ashamed about their actions and they are accepted by the community anyway, it wont be long before those behaviors become prevalent among the entire community since the people of God have refused to distance themselves from such actions. Again, it is quite different if the person knows they are sinning and needs correction, encouragement, prayer, and perhaps regular counseling. The church is supposed to be there to help carry the load and pray for each other in such circumstances.

To answer the question: If I were involved in a behavior that I embraced and felt no shame over that was perhaps leading me toward eternal destruction....I would want people to take whatever measures they could to help me turn my life around...including shunning me. To me, this question is like asking a child, "Would you want to get spanked?" Of course no one wants that...but it can be a good thing if used for the right reasons in love and for godly discipline.

 

[pom2014]

I would want people to take whatever measures they could to help me turn my life around.

Whatever measures?

Like the dunking stool? Or the scolds bridle?

Or perhaps being caned, pressed or humiliated?

Or maybe a spanking?

Be careful stating things like whatever it takes. You may get just that.

 

[Axehead]

I would want people to take whatever measures they could to help me turn my life around.

Whatever measures?

Like the dunking stool? Or the scolds bridle?

Or perhaps being caned, pressed or humiliated?

Or maybe a spanking?

Be careful stating things like whatever it takes. You may get just that.

Sometimes, God takes whatever measures are necessary to bring you back to Him. Do we disagree with God's methods? Jesus exposed sin and hypocrisy all the time and shunned the Pharisees or at least tried to. He went to those who knew they needed a Physician. The Pharisees were always coming to Him, trying to catch Him in a trap because He was drawing the crowds away from them. Jesus wasn't looking for trouble, but when confronted, He spoke the truth and exposed hypocrisy. You don't shun someone that is seeking victory over sin, but definitely shun the hypocrites who are a living mockery of the Lord and His Church. A little leaven, leavens the whole lump.

A person who is actively practicing sin and loves his sin and doesn't want to be free from it will not like to be around Christians who are always speaking the truth in love to him. The Christians will be a nuisance to him. The sinner loving his sin will end up shunning committed Christians. But God knows how to bring him around that is of course if he hasn't hardened his heart to the point of reprobation.

1Cor_5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Cor_5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Cor_5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Cor_5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cor_5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Cor_5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Cor_5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Cor_5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Cor_5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cor_5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cor_5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

How different the Church would be today, if it obeyed His Word. Indeed, how different the world might be, too.

 

[Wormwood]

pom2014,

Well, I hope that I would repent and wouldn't need extreme measures. However, I doubt caning or spanking an adult would likely produce genuine repentance. Because I believe in a literal hell that lasts for eternity, then I would gladly accept even "being handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" that my soul would be saved. Yes, whatever it would take to make my life conform to the Lord's desires would be far preferable to eternity in hell. More than that, we should be willing to do whatever it takes to be conformed to Christ's likeness so that we might be a witness to others as well. I think we have turned the church into a politically correct country club that is about trying not to offend and making everyone comfortable rather than a people who are passionate about rescuing people from the coming wrath and being conformed to the likeness of Christ.

 

[Axehead]

pom2014,

Well, I hope that I would repent and wouldn't need extreme measures. However, I doubt caning or spanking an adult would likely produce genuine repentance. Because I believe in a literal hell that lasts for eternity, then I would gladly accept even "being handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" that my soul would be saved. Yes, whatever it would take to make my life conform to the Lord's desires would be far preferable to eternity in hell. More than that, we should be willing to do whatever it takes to be conformed to Christ's likeness so that we might be a witness to others as well. I think we have turned the church into a politically correct country club that is about trying not to offend and making everyone comfortable rather than a people who are passionate about rescuing people from the coming wrath and being conformed to the likeness of Christ.

Amen!!!

 

[Forsakenone]

How different the Church would be today, if it obeyed His Word. Indeed, how different the world might be, too.

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
Hebrews 8:10

So is shunning like not talking to them or hiding one's face from them?

 

[Axehead]

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
Hebrews 8:10

So is shunning like not talking to them or hiding one's face from them?

I'm not really sure what the author means by the word, shunning. I think the scriptures are more descriptive.

 

[pom2014]

There are four phrases in the English language that fill me with dread when uttered for they herald great evil to come.

At any cost
The end justifies the means
For the greater good
This is God's will

I shudder when men utter these or similar phrases.

 

[KingJ]

I will ask a question of all of you, and preface with just the request that you simply answer the question without elaboration or explanation.

Alright then.

Would any of you desire to be shunned?

yes
a bad apple....

I would want people to take whatever measures they could to help me turn my life around.

Whatever measures?

Like the dunking stool? Or the scolds bridle?

Or perhaps being caned, pressed or humiliated?

Or maybe a spanking?

Be careful stating things like whatever it takes. You may get just that.

hahaha!!! You are funny Pom. Perhaps the elders at my church would make an exception for you :lol:.

first oft, let me be clear; I have never experienced shunning here on CB, never. Even from brothers and sisters who abhor what I post. The charity I have experience here amazes me and I am grateful - cannot wait to eat you all. However, in my life, I have never been rejected by anyone, but Christians. And if I was keeping count (apparently I am) Catholics lead rejection 3 to 1. Although, right now, I am in danger of expulsion from a men's group that I have been meeting with for about 6 months because I recently relapsed after getting fired from a job I loved.

So, this brings up my topic; shunning. What is Biblical shunning? Is shunning effective? Do you practice shunning? What is the end goal? Is it effective in dealing with addiction?

Sorry to hear Aspen. Shunning should be an absolute last resort as Justaname said.

My church has asked certain people to leave. But our elders would still visit and help / minister to them. They just werent allowed to affect others at church whilst having no victory with their mortal sin / mortal habit.

I've only ever seen shunning accomplish one thing...push people farther apart. Usually those who shun have their senses of right/wrong and justice stunted at the punishment-reward stage. IOW, it's pretty childish and ineffective.

Is Paul childish in 1 Cor 5?