Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture

[Davy]

Is the 1 Thess 4.17 cloud stopover to gather the saved just a short pause on the way down to earth ?
Please state the text that confirms that so that we can try and understand why you believe the way you do.

I have no problem responding to that.

1. The 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 verses are only about Jesus' bringing the 'asleep' saints that had already died in Christ with Him when He comes, with their being first resurrected. And Paul shows Jesus DESCENDING TO THE EARTH.

2. The 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse is ONLY about the saints still alive on earth when Jesus comes with His asleep saints from Heaven. And the alive saints are then "caught up" to Jesus and His resurrected saints ON HIS DESCENT TO EARTH.

3. Then one must go to Zechariah 14 to find the 'rest of the story', as it shows Jesus comes with ALL... His gathered Church to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, ON EARTH. It says Jesus' feet will touch down upon that Mount of Olives, bringing all His elect Church with Him there. Per Acts 1, that Mount of Olives is where Jesus ascended into Heaven, and is where the two angels said He will return to in like manner as He ascended into Heaven.

Thus the idea that Jesus comes for His Church, and then goes back into Heaven with them is a doctrine from men ADDED to God's Word.

 

[William Barton]

The pre-tribulation rapture is noted in the following verses:
o. Daniel 12:2-3
o. John 14:2-3
o. 1Corinthians 15:51-53
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17
o. Revelation 11:12
o. Revelation 14:16

The purpose is to spare believers from the bowl judgments. It occurs at the midpoint of the final "seven" (Daniel 12:2-3).

The U.S. did something similar during World War 2 before dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. U.S. planes dropped warnings to get out.

It's in the Book.

 

[Davy]

Thus the idea that Jesus comes for His Church, and then goes back into Heaven with them is a doctrine from men ADDED to God's Word.

 

[Taken]

The pre-tribulation rapture is noted in the following verses:
o. Daniel 12:2-3
o. John 14:2-3
o. 1Corinthians 15:51-53
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17
o. Revelation 11:12
o. Revelation 14:16

Not going to Look up your references.

The purpose is to spare believers from the bowl judgments. It occurs at the midpoint of the final "seven" (Daniel 12:2-3).

Purpose is to Deliver, Escape, the Already… “Prepared… body, soul, spirit…”already accounted Righteous”…
From “All” Tribulations and Wrath to Be sent down from Heaven.

When you examine Scripture…
The Tribulations sent down from Heaven…
Begins with the Wrath of the Lamb…
The very Same, who “Prepared the Already Prepared”…
And you have, they whom the Lamb of God Prepared…Subject to, Present ON Earth, suffering His Wrath…
Why?

The U.S. did something similar during World War 2 before dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. U.S. planes dropped warnings to get out.

It's in the Book.

Sure.
The USofA was founded, established on Biblical Standards and Principles.

 

[Taken]

Thus the idea that Jesus comes for His Church, and then goes back into Heaven with them is a doctrine from men ADDED to God's Word.

WHO is making the Claim “Jesus” is coming TO Earth…
to gather His Church?

 

[William Barton]

WHO is making the Claim “Jesus” is coming TO Earth…
to gather His Church?

Jesus come to earth is shown in the Bible, Revelation 14:14-16.

The purpose is to remove believers, so that they may avoid the coming judgments on the land (scroll, trumpet, bowl).

I suppose this is Middle East only, since that is the place of contention.

 

[William Barton]

Not going to Look up your references.

Purpose is to Deliver, Escape, the Already… “Prepared… body, soul, spirit…”already accounted Righteous”…
From “All” Tribulations and Wrath to Be sent down from Heaven.

When you examine Scripture…
The Tribulations sent down from Heaven…
Begins with the Wrath of the Lamb…
The very Same, who “Prepared the Already Prepared”…
And you have, they whom the Lamb of God Prepared…Subject to, Present ON Earth, suffering His Wrath…
Why?


Sure.
The USofA was founded, established on Biblical Standards and

I have no problem responding to that.

1. The 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 verses are only about Jesus' bringing the 'asleep' saints that had already died in Christ with Him when He comes, with their being first resurrected. And Paul shows Jesus DESCENDING TO THE EARTH.

2. The 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse is ONLY about the saints still alive on earth when Jesus comes with His asleep saints from Heaven. And the alive saints are then "caught up" to Jesus and His resurrected saints ON HIS DESCENT TO EARTH.

3. Then one must go to Zechariah 14 to find the 'rest of the story', as it shows Jesus comes with ALL... His gathered Church to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, ON EARTH. It says Jesus' feet will touch down upon that Mount of Olives, bringing all His elect Church with Him there. Per Acts 1, that Mount of Olives is where Jesus ascended into Heaven, and is where the two angels said He will return to in like manner as He ascended into Heaven.

Thus the idea that Jesus comes for His Church, and then goes back into Heaven with them is a doctrine from men ADDED to God's Word.

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord." (1Thessalonians 4:16-17)

The purpose is to remove believers from the land, so that they may avoid the coming judgments.

a

 

[Taken]

Jesus come to earth is shown in the Bible, Revelation 14:14-16.

The purpose is to remove believers, so that they may avoid the coming judgments on the land (scroll, trumpet, bowl).

I suppose this is Middle East only, since that is the place of contention.

Jesus “does NOT” come to Earth to Gather HIS CHURCH.

Jesus… descends FROM WHERE He IS…NOW (At the right hand of God, where no man has Gone…)
WHERE… IS God…Jesus…NOW?

In Gods Estate.
Where IS Gods Estate?
The Heaven Above the Heaven(S)

What IS and Where Are “the Heaven(s)?
1) Heaven Closest to Earth…Clouds.
2) Heaven above the Clouds… Place Where departed saved Souls Go.
3) Heaven where Stars can be Seen at Night…Holy Angels Estate.
Higher…Gods Estate.

Lord Jesus Descends….
* FROM where He IS:
Heaven Above the Heavens…
* TO the Lowest Heavens, and Summons His Church UP TO Him…
* BEFORE…Tribulations and Wrath IS Sent Down from Heaven upon the Earth.

AT that point …Jesus Has Not Returned to Earth…

And WHEN Jesus RETURNS TO Earth… His Angels AND Church / Bride (are With Him).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Jesus come to earth is shown in the Bible, Revelation 14:14-16.

Sure Later….not the Rapture.

The purpose is to remove believers, so that they may avoid the coming judgments on the land (scroll, trumpet, bowl).

“believers” are Not Removed…
Their Body is Dead Remains On Earth…
Their Soul IS Saved, (BY God) departs their Dead Body…and their saved Soul is Escorted to Heaven… to be reunited with their Body,
When their Body is raised from it’s grave ON Earth to their body Standing on Earth…
First Resurrection.
Their body never leaves the Earth…

I suppose this is Middle East only, since that is the place of contention.

World wide.

 

[William Barton]

WHO is making the Claim “Jesus” is coming TO Earth…
to gather His Church?

"The Lord whom you seek will come suddenly to His temple" (Malachi 3:1).
The temple is on earth.

Prior to that Jesus will descend to the sky and catch up believers (Revelation 14:14-16), so they may avoid the coming judgments.

The sky contains oxygen (necessary for breathing) and an upper ozone layer, shielding against cosmic radiation. None of the other eight planets has these

Return of Jesus with his angels to rule is noted in Revelation 19:1-21.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Is the last day of the OT the same as the last day of the NT? Is the last day of the thousand years the same as the last day of satan's little season?

The answer to this is quite obvious.

 

[TLHKAJ]

This summation locks the entire biblical timeline down tightly. Packing the resurrection, the catching-up, the final judgment, and the destruction of the wicked all into the singular, climactic event of the Last Day aligns perfectly with the text.

There is no scriptural room for a staggered, multi-phase escape hatch when Jesus explicitly ties the resurrection of believers to the Last Day in John 6, and Paul anchors the descent of the Lord, the resurrection of the dead, and the gathering of the living directly together in 1 Thessalonians 4. It all converges on that one definitive day.

Brother, can you comment on these verses?

2 Peter 3:7-13
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


I was saved at age 13 and God gave me a vision of His coming when I was about age 17. In that vision, I was in a green pasture with other believers and we were all looking up. The sky was wondrous to look at. It was the colors of fire ...vivid shades of red, orange, yellow, blue, purple ...etc ....and yet we felt no heat. It all rolled back and we saw our Lord. Immediately upon seeing Him, our hands went up to praise... "It's Him! It's Jesus! It's Jesus!" ...and Holy Spirit drew us up. I came out of that vision being physically shaken by my unsaved cousin who was calling my name over and over. She said she saw my whole body shaking/trembling. When I came out of the vision, it felt like it was still happening. It was beyond words glorious JOY!!!

 

[Taken]

"The Lord whom you seek will come suddenly to His temple" (Malachi 3:1).
The temple is on earth.

Yes… WHEN, He return TO Earth.

Prior to that Jesus will descend to the sky and catch up believers (Revelation 14:14-16), so they may avoid the coming judgments.

No. He is Dividing / Separating them…

The sky contains oxygen (necessary for breathing) and an upper ozone layer, shielding against cosmic radiation. None of the other eight planets has these

Return of Jesus with his angels to rule is noted in Revelation 19:1-21.

His “Raised Church” does not Require Oxygen. They are raised up in a glorified body.
Like Angels, They are not seen by human eyes.
And both… Holy Angels AND His Church / Bride return to Earth With Him.

Rapture up… forever With the Lord…
Whoever He IS.
1 Thes. 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truth7t7]

I shall Return to Earth With KING Christ the Lord Jesus To His Kingdom…while mortals in their Nations are being born, living, dying…
Where are you going to Be?

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)​

Sound The Alarm!

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium, this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)​

No, he didn't. He warned about false christs before and during the tribulation not about the Millennium.

 

[William Barton]

Not going to Look up your references.

Purpose is to Deliver, Escape, the Already… “Prepared… body, soul, spirit…”already accounted Righteous”…
From “All” Tribulations and Wrath to Be sent down from Heaven.

When you examine Scripture…
The Tribulations sent down from Heaven…
Begins with the Wrath of the Lamb…
The very Same, who “Prepared the Already Prepared”…
And you have, they whom the Lamb of God Prepared…Subject to, Present ON Earth, suffering His Wrath…
Why?


Sure.
The USofA was founded, established on Biblical Standards and Principles.

There has always been tribulation. The rapture is escape from the great tribulation, noted in Matthew 24:21, Revelation 14:14-16.

 

[William Barton]

Is the 1 Thess 4.17 cloud stopover to gather the saved just a short pause on the way down to earth ?
Please state the text that confirms that so that we can try and understand why you believe the way you do.

1Thessalonians 4:17 is the rapture, removing believers from the field of the coming battle. Those who are raptured presumably go to heaven.

"Fire and final judgment" comes after the Millennium in Revelation 20:10-14. Jesus will bring all believers in heaven with him at that time (1Thessalonians 4:14-17).