Sin nature?

[InSpiritInTruth]

[SIZE=medium]I’ve heard some discuss the question in other forums if man is born with a sin nature or not, and I would like to take the time to comment on this issue according to scripture. I absolutely believe man is born with a nature to sin[/SIZE]. This nature was introduced into the world through Adams sin, and the spirit of he who is in the world also dwells in the firstborn nature of man. We are told in [SIZE=medium]Romans 5:12[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin[/SIZE]; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

[SIZE=medium]This is what I believe Paul was showing here in the law of sin and death in [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Romans 8:2[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin[/SIZE] and death. Also Paul also said in [SIZE=medium]Romans 5:19[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]There are 2 seeds one corruptible the other incorruptible ([/SIZE][SIZE=medium]1 Peter 1:23[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]) just as there are 2 natures. The first is earthy and of the flesh[/SIZE] and is also carnally minded which is of the spirit of this world, and found in the first Adam after iniquity was found in man (Adam). The second is of the Holy Spirit, and is of God, sent forth in the seed of Promise, even in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ from heaven.

[SIZE=medium]Here is an example of the first nature in [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Ephesians 2:3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our [/SIZE]flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”

[SIZE=medium]Now some believe there is an age of accountability for children, but I believe the scriptures also prove this idea false. In [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Psalm 51:5[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin[/SIZE] did my mother conceive me.” And also here in [SIZE=medium]Psalm 58:3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “The wicked are estranged from the womb: the[/SIZE]y go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Also the Lord said in [SIZE=medium]Genesis 8:21[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]… for the imagination of man's heart is evil[/SIZE] from his youth; ….”

[SIZE=medium]So that is some sound scriptural proof to confirm this point, but think about this; if man did not first have a sin nature from first being born of the flesh[/SIZE] and also carnally minded, then why would man have to be “born again” and made a “new man” in Christ by the Holy Spirit?

[SIZE=medium]The old man of sin[/SIZE] must die, and the body of sin must also be destroyed. And when this happens in Christ crucified, we then are also raised up a new man in Him and given a new nature and mind by the Spirit of God.
[SIZE=medium]Our hearts must be changed, the spirit of our minds must be renewed in Jesus Christ [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Ephesians 4:23[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;[/SIZE]

 

[mjrhealth]

[SIZE=medium]Now some believe there is an age of accountability for children, but I believe the scriptures also prove this idea false. In [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Psalm 51:5[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin[/SIZE] did my mother conceive me.” And also here in [SIZE=medium]Psalm 58:3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “The wicked are estranged from the womb: the[/SIZE]y go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Also the Lord said in [SIZE=medium]Genesis 8:21[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]… for the imagination of man's heart is evil[/SIZE] from his youth; ….”

Why do you think so may countires have celebration when they deterimne the person to be of age. Who do you think God is, that He would allow a child to be seperated from Him??

Mat_18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mar_10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

No probs with teh rest.

In all His Love

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Why do you think so may countires have celebration when they deterimne the person to be of age. Who do you think God is, that He would allow a child to be seperated from Him??

Mat_18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mar_10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

No probs with teh rest.

In all His Love

What many countries celebrate does not change what the word of God says is true. And notice in Matthew 18:3 the Lord said "Except you be converted" This speaks of being born again first, and then in the next part Jesus says "and become as little children."

We don't decrease in age or physically change when born again, but the change is inward. So we to become "as" little children has nothing to do with an age of accountability. Though we are first born with a sin nature children are more apt to receive the message of the gospel because they are not yet as hardened with pride, or overwhelmed so much with the cares of the world and lusts of the flesh as adults.

But this still remains as a must......John 3:7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[mjrhealth]

what the word of God says is true. And notice in Matthew 18:3 the Lord said "Except you be converted"

Oh you mean what the bible says. Have you ever asked Jesus??

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Oh you mean what the bible says. Have you ever asked Jesus??

The Holy Bible contains the words of God, just as holy men spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. Just as the holy prophets spoke by the Spirit of Christ.

1 Peter 1:10-11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

Just as the apostles spoke by the same Spirit of Truth, being the words of God and not men.....

1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

Just as the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy....(Revelation 19:10)

 

[mjrhealth]

And christianlty is going to remain a mess, and the devil laughs at the folly of mankind, for it is only man that could replace God with a book.And still you will not take things to Christ and so recieve no revelation, just mens wisdom, mens understanding mens knowledge,
You should really take a note of what you read.

Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

See they didnt alwasy speak from the Holy Spirit

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It will never change, Men are stubborn

God has given us so much, but men choose to deny all He has given just to prove themselves.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And christianlty is going to remain a mess, and the devil laughs at the folly of mankind, for it is only man that could replace God with a book.And still you will not take things to Christ and so recieve no revelation, just mens wisdom, mens understanding mens knowledge,
You should really take a note of what you read.

Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

See they didnt alwasy speak from the Holy Spirit

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It will never change, Men are stubborn

God has given us so much, but men choose to deny all He has given just to prove themselves.

I don't know any Christians who say they want to replace God with a book? But many Christians do believe all scripture is given by the inspiration of God, including Paul...

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Also, Peter had yet to be converted when he was rebuked by Jesus in the verse you quoted.

Luke 22:31-32 "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

Just as Peter and the other disciples did not receive the Holy Ghost until after Jesus was resurrected...


John 20:20-22 "And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

 

[mjrhealth]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God

Now waht was he reffering to, please tell me, when Jesus spoke of scripture what was He reffering to, do you knaow waht scripture is, do you know tha teven teh Koran is scripture??

The disciples never had a bible, they never even had the OT they went to the temple to hear, guess where ther" revealtion" came from... God. not from reading books, not from going to church, not from listeing to men.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

As Jesus sid, teh scriptures cant give you life, the yonly point to the one who can"Jesus" yet as He said, you wont go to Him to get life. Thats why christianity ois the mess it is.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

[SIZE=medium]I’ve heard some discuss the question in other forums if man is born with a sin nature or not, and I would like to take the time to comment on this issue according to scripture. I absolutely believe man is born with a nature to sin[/SIZE]. This nature was introduced into the world through Adams sin, and the spirit of he who is in the world also dwells in the firstborn nature of man. We are told in [SIZE=medium]Romans 5:12[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin[/SIZE]; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
This is saying that they have committed sin and they will die as Adam did. Nothing about being born with sin.

[SIZE=medium]This is what I believe Paul was showing here in the law of sin and death in [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Romans 8:2[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin[/SIZE] and death. Also Paul also said in [SIZE=medium]Romans 5:19[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”[/SIZE]
This is saying being free from the Mosaic law of sin and death. Shall be made righteous is the same with being made sinners.

[SIZE=medium]There are 2 seeds one corruptible the other incorruptible ([/SIZE][SIZE=medium]1 Peter 1:23[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]) just as there are 2 natures. The first is earthy and of the flesh[/SIZE] and is also carnally minded which is of the spirit of this world, and found in the first Adam after iniquity was found in man (Adam). The second is of the Holy Spirit, and is of God, sent forth in the seed of Promise, even in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ from heaven.
Its talking about the death and life. Adam could not give eternal life to his children, Jesus could, being born again by obeying his words.

[SIZE=medium]Here is an example of the first nature in [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Ephesians 2:3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our [/SIZE]flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
We create a nature in us in not obeying God and it bringing death upon us.

[SIZE=medium]Now some believe there is an age of accountability for children, but I believe the scriptures also prove this idea false. In [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Psalm 51:5[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin[/SIZE] did my mother conceive me.” And also here in [SIZE=medium]Psalm 58:3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “The wicked are estranged from the womb: the[/SIZE]y go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Also the Lord said in [SIZE=medium]Genesis 8:21[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]… for the imagination of man's heart is evil[/SIZE] from his youth; ….”
1)David's mother was a sinner, not David, David came into a sinful world, and then David learned sin.
2)Ever heard a first born telling a lie, its says they go astray after they are born.
3) Genesis 6:9 Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. not everybody heart is evil - so birth has nothing to do with it

[SIZE=medium]So that is some sound scriptural proof to confirm this point, but think about this; if man did not first have a sin nature from first being born of the flesh[/SIZE] and also carnally minded, then why would man have to be “born again” and made a “new man” in Christ by the Holy Spirit?
A sinner needs to be clean free from past sins so the Holy Ghost can come into them.
Need to be new wine bottle

[SIZE=medium]The old man of sin[/SIZE] must die, and the body of sin must also be destroyed. And when this happens in Christ crucified, we then are also raised up a new man in Him and given a new nature and mind by the Spirit of God.
[SIZE=medium]Our hearts must be changed, the spirit of our minds must be renewed in Jesus Christ [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Ephesians 4:23[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Yes its really about the heart that is to be fixed it make the decisions, the natural flesh is just a house we live in, its our heart[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]we are trying to save, what comes from the heart is what a man is. Good or Bad.[/SIZE]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Now waht was he reffering to, please tell me, when Jesus spoke of scripture what was He reffering to, do you knaow waht scripture is, do you know tha teven teh Koran is scripture??

The disciples never had a bible, they never even had the OT they went to the temple to hear, guess where ther" revealtion" came from... God. not from reading books, not from going to church, not from listeing to men.

As Jesus sid, teh scriptures cant give you life, the yonly point to the one who can"Jesus" yet as He said, you wont go to Him to get life. Thats why christianity ois the mess it is.

Jesus said the scriptures testified of Him, but the problem was they truly didn't believe the words of God spoken and written by the prophets....

John 5:46 "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

And because they did not believe the words of God written in scripture, they did not have the Living Word of God dwelling in them......

John 8:37
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

And I'm pretty sure Paul and Jesus was not talking about the Koran as scriptures seeing it wasn't even around yet.

Also the early disciples did have the scriptures (words of God) and searched them daily to see what was true and what was false doctrine by faith...

Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

So if your doctrine is not in line with the written words of God (Holy Bible scriptures) then it's just the doctrine of men.

To say you are born without a sin nature, and to say there is a certain age of accountability is contrary to the words of God, and is nothing more than the doctrine of men. And that is the main problem with Churches these days, they believe the false doctrines of carnally minded men over what the words of God plainly say is true.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This is saying being free from the Mosaic law of sin and death.
[SIZE=medium]We create a nature in us in not obeying God and it bringing death upon us.[/SIZE]
David's mother was a sinner, not David, David came into a sinful world, and then David learned sin.

The law of Moses which God gave to Moses is not sin, the law and commandments are just, holy and good....

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (Romans 7:12)

It is transgression of the law that is sin as written in 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Also we do not create a sin nature in us because as I've already shown by scripture we are born with it because of Adams sin...[SIZE=medium]Romans 5:12[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And I'm sure David's mother was also a sinner because it is written "for all have sinned". But the scripture I quoted by David said "I was shapen in iniquity" meaning David confessed by the Spirit that he himself was shaped in iniquity in the womb...Psalm 51:5[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin[/SIZE] did my mother conceive me.”

[SIZE=medium]This truth is also in line with the others words of God I quoted....[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And also here in Psalm 58:3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “The wicked are estranged from the womb: the[/SIZE]y go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Also the Lord said in [SIZE=medium]Genesis 8:21[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]… for the imagination of man's heart is evil[/SIZE] from his youth; ….”

[SIZE=medium]And do me a favor from now on, please do not respond to my posts in my own comment box. Thanks in advance, Peace.[/SIZE]

 

[Bible_Gazer]

you think Jesus was born with the sin nature ?
It says he was of the seed of Abraham and David, so therefore he received what they had by birth.
Its also says that Jesus had to overcome and he was tempted in all points as we are.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

you think Jesus was born with the sin nature ?
It says he was of the seed of Abraham and David, so therefore he received what they had by birth.
Its also says that Jesus had to overcome and he was tempted in all points as we are.

Mary did not conceive Jesus by flesh and blood seed, but conceived by way of the Holy Spirit. So Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit means he did not have the same nature of the earthly, but of the heavenly Father being without sin.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Mary did not conceive Jesus by flesh and blood seed, but conceived by way of the Holy Spirit. So Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit means he did not have the same nature of the earthly, but of the heavenly Father being without sin.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

how was Jesus Jewish by birth ?
So was he not a man in the flesh that came in the likeness of sinful flesh ? Rom.8
Jesus took not on the nature of an angel, so what nature did he take on. Heb.2

There are those who do believe Jesus had to fight that Adamic nature and to be able to help us to overcome the flesh.
So he knows what we go thru. He was tempted in all points as we are. Heb.2

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

how was Jesus Jewish by birth ?
So was he not a man in the flesh that came in the likeness of sinful flesh ? Rom.8
Jesus took not on the nature of an angel, so what nature did he take on. Heb.2

There are those who do believe Jesus had to fight that Adamic nature and to be able to help us to overcome the flesh.
So he knows what we go thru. He was tempted in all points as we are. Heb.2

Some say he was Jewish by Mary's linage, "made of a woman" as written, but the scriptures do say a Jew is one who is inward by the Spirit and not outward according to the flesh so perhaps the seed of David is determined according to the Spirit.

And yes, Jesus did suffer the same temptations as we do, but without sin.
Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Also keep in mind it is written by one man sin entered into the world [SIZE=medium]Romans 5:12[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin[/SIZE]; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

So all who are of the world are firstborn with this sin nature, but Jesus proclaimed he was not of this world.
John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

This is also why we must be born again from heaven above. But one other thing I will note, is Jesus took on the likeness of sinful flesh and became sin for us in order to destroy the body of sin. But that does not mean he had sinned, nor had a sinful nature.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature when they were created and they didn't need one to commit a sin. Same way with Satan. We don't need one either, we make our own choices. Sin is not a substance,it's breaking the law, it comes from the heart so it's does not come down thru some kind of gene network. Otherwise Jesus would have gotten it thru Mary his birth mother.

 

[face2face]

Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature when they were created and they didn't need one to commit a sin.

Without a nature which is prone to sin it would be impossible for A&E to sin...cannot have one without the other.

Let's add a supporting quote:

"The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven" 1 Corinth 15:47

Paul is making an important point here that man was of the earth earthy and therefore a corrupting creature not unlike the animal kingdom which surrounded him.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Some say he was Jewish by Mary's linage, "made of a woman" as written, but the scriptures do say a Jew is one who is inward by the Spirit and not outward according to the flesh so perhaps the seed of David is determined according to the Spirit.

And yes, Jesus did suffer the same temptations as we do, but without sin.
Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Also keep in mind it is written by one man sin entered into the world [SIZE=medium]Romans 5:12[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin[/SIZE]; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

So all who are of the world are firstborn with this sin nature, but Jesus proclaimed he was not of this world.
John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

This is also why we must be born again from heaven above. But one other thing I will note, is Jesus took on the likeness of sinful flesh and became sin for us in order to destroy the body of sin. But that does not mean he had sinned, nor had a sinful nature.

I just wanted to ad this concerning who is reckoned for the seed....

Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Paul also said the children of faith are counted as the children of Abraham.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature when they were created and they didn't need one to commit a sin.

Your right, the first man (Adam) was made in the image of God. But when sin entered into man the ways of mankind was corrupted, and by the first man (Adam) sin entered into the world as written. This verse here speaks to the man (Adam) who was in the garden of Eden and what happened...

Ezekiel 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

A lot of people think this is speaking of Satan, but it's not. The devil was the serpent figure in the garden, not the man (Adam). Also the serpent, aka the devil, was never created perfect in his ways like God created man. The proof is in what Jesus said of the Devil, that he was a murderer from the beginning.


John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

God didn't create Satan a murder he became one later.
Adam wasn't created with a sin nature he later created his own sinful heart by choice.
Humanity must have a free will choice, so God can get what he wants from us.
Ezek.18 says we receive not the sins of our father.
We are accountable for our own sins we commit.
Sin is not passed on to us, but death is.
How could Adam change his genes thoughts to make a child to disobey God just by thinking it ?