SIN - RIGHTEOUS OR HOLY

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1stCenturyLady

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Righteousness and holiness are two different levels of purity. It is because there are two levels of sin. There are sins unto death vs. sins not unto death. Rev. 22:11 does show God accepts those who are only righteous, AS LONG AS WE ARE CONSISTENTLY ABIDING IN JESUS and are actively in the long process towards holiness, the ultimate goal of Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. This is how:

When first born again of the Spirit that we must have to be on the path to salvation that Jesus, as the Author of our first faith (Rom.1:17 from faith to faith), takes away all sins of LAWLESSNESS (sins unto death) 1 John 3:4-5. You will also see in chapter three this is to make us truly RIGHTEOUS (vs. 7) and we have no desire to break God's LAWS (vs. 9 and 24) where it says "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." The Spirit causes you to also experience a vast change in our character as Jesus takes our desire for lawless sin from our very nature where this sin dwelt, making our old man/sin nature clean as in John 15:3. See also Romans 6:5-7 regarding freedom of this worst type of sin. Again, Romans 6 like 1 John 3 only has to do with SINS UNTO DEATH as Paul ends with THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.

But, you may say, I still sin. Those, my friends, are merely immature fruit and the second type of sin, SINS NOT UNTO DEATH. Do they matter? Oh, yes, if you stop abiding in Jesus. See Matthew 7:19-23 ("Depart from me, I never knew you") and 2 Peter 1:5-9 ("For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.)

Now, after becoming born again of the Spirit, if we are still abiding in Jesus, He then as the Finisher of our second faith takes us through a long process of maturing the fruit of the Spirit. You and I see a lot of immature fruit happening daily on these forums. The church mistakenly knows this process as sanctification, instead of its right name, glorification, which the church mistakenly believes is after death and upon resurrection of our body. That is a doctrine of demons as they want you to die in sin. So, again Christ maturing our fruit has to do with our inner self until Jesus has finished what He started, Phil. 1:6. 2 Peter 1:2-11 shows the process and also our perfection when we get to total maturity in Christ and NEVER STUMBLE. 2 Pt. 1:10-11. At the end of this 'race' as Paul calls it we are then HOLY.

For 3,500 years the people of God have known about the two types of sin, even through the dark age of Thyatira, the Roman Catholic Church, who named them mortal and venial sins. Then came the Reformation (Sardis) and they were to keep this knowledge about sin learned from the history of God's people, but changed this holy knowledge to a confusing "SIN IS SIN." They lumped them altogether and made some of the worst doctrines of demons out of "sin is sin." These doctrines cause defeatism. Instead of Jesus taking away our sin all the way to holiness, these denominations teach the heresy of we are all sinners saved by Christ's blood covering up our active sin life, their definition of grace. No! Grace is Power to not sin. That is the good news. And Jesus does it all. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” This verse 17 should be more exact and say "the righteousness of God is revealed IN US, from faith to faith."

At your death, those who will enter heaven are either righteous or holy, the meaning of from faith to faith. Revelation 22:11. That is nothing less than either sinless of mortal/willful/sins unto death, or perfect in all the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus preached His goal for us - to be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. As He is the Author and Finisher of our faith (from faith to faith, and from glory to glory during glorification) only He know when we reach perfection and true holiness. But the KEY to entering heaven is ABIDING IN JESUS. That is when Jesus is still actively working in your life and you are actively desiring holiness. You'll love what God loves, and hate what God hates. Stay focused on Jesus. Keep reading His word slowly without your mind wondering. Read the Word intentionally. It is then your ears are open to hearing God's meaning of His Word. If every Christian did this, there would be unity in the Church. So, pray to God that He wipe your mind to any doctrines of demons or sinful men, and pray that the Spirit of Truth teach you only God's doctrines.

I want to add that the reason why immature fruit sins/trespasses are not unto death is because they are only committed unintentionally when born again and walking in the Spirit. Willful sins are sins unto death and have to do with lawlessness. Trespasses are unintentional Lev. 5:15 and according to 1 John 1:7 are constantly being cleansed while walking in the light. That has NOTHING to do with cleansing willful lawlessness. How many times can you be born again, the result of 1 John 1:9 and Acts 2:38 (the same doctrine of God)?!? You can't walk in the light and willfully commit murder or steal or commit adultery or pathologically lie, etc. and expect them to be forgiven. That miracle should have already happened, IF someone is actually born again of the Spirit, which heart-breakingly, doesn't apply to too many in the Church, which included ME for the first 30 years I was alive and being raised in the Church! Afterwards, a truly born again Christian will commit only unintentional sins not unto death as Jesus perfects us, and is the truth of 1 John 1:7, even though the "sin is sin" camp would have you believe God's grace constantly cleanses us IN WILLFUL SIN, unscripturally taught as "past, present and future willful lawless sins."

For some reason, I've heard many pastors on the radio of different denominations, and even forum members, teach against what they call, "sinless perfection." I have never heard any pastor teach that doctrine by name, only against because of THE WORST doctrines of demons that are taught together that hinders truth Mt. 7:32-36 "the truth shall set you free," having to do with verses in Romans 7:14-25 ABOUT LIVING UNDER THE LAW and 1 John 1:6, 8 AND 10 STILL BEFORE BEING BORN AGAIN, WILLFULLY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT, although according to the gospel of the "power of God," HOLINESS is the end result of Jesus's work in us if we live long enough, is it not? Hebrews 12:14 "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears."

We only become aware of Jesus maturing our fruit when you look back and notice that you didn't react the same way you used to. That is what these forums are good for, so we should all be thoughtful when we post one another, and practice being mature and loving.

Love one another.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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@Fathom @sondring7

I see you are both Christians, but you don't know why Jesus came and died for us? It was to take away the sin from our nature, returning it back to the perfect nature we were created with before Adam willfully sinned, and to destroy the works of the devil. It was Adam's free will that made him choose to break God's commandment, because Eve convinced him to eat. Don't you know what happens when we are born again of the Spirit? All desire to break one of God's commandments is cleansed from our sin nature making us clean.

sondring7, you, especially are deceived. The doctrine you quoted that "(sin) never stops till that last breath regardless of being a Christian or otherwise" is a doctrine of demons. Jesus is the Creator! Can't you grasp that He creates a clean nature in you. That doesn't mean you are perfect as there are still immature fruit of the Spirit that needs to mature. But sins unto death are no longer in our nature. Do you really lie, cheat, steal, murder and are sexually immoral? Then you need to repent and ask God for His Spirit. Revelation 22:11 tells us that those demons taught you to keep sinning until you die, not knowing that the state that you are in when you die remains.

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

The difference between righteous and holy has to do with first the cleansing of sins unto death that then make you righteous. Then the long process of maturing all the fruit of the Spirit until you "never stumble" 2 Peter 1:5-11. When completed you are holy. Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see God. Jesus does both as the Author and Finisher of your faith.

So get far away from whoever it is that is teaching you garbage the demons love because it will send you to hell.
 

sondring7

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@Fathom @sondring7

I see you are both Christians, but you don't know why Jesus came and died for us? It was to take away the sin from our nature, returning it back to the perfect nature we were created with before Adam willfully sinned, and to destroy the works of the devil. It was Adam's free will that made him choose to break God's commandment, because Eve convinced him to eat. Don't you know what happens when we are born again of the Spirit? All desire to break one of God's commandments is cleansed from our sin nature making us clean.

sondring7, you, especially are deceived. The doctrine you quoted that "(sin) never stops till that last breath regardless of being a Christian or otherwise" is a doctrine of demons. Jesus is the Creator! Can't you grasp that He creates a clean nature in you. That doesn't mean you are perfect as there are still immature fruit of the Spirit that needs to mature. But sins unto death are no longer in our nature. Do you really lie, cheat, steal, murder and are sexually immoral? Then you need to repent and ask God for His Spirit. Revelation 22:11 tells us that those demons taught you to keep sinning until you die, not knowing that the state that you are in when you die remains.

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

The difference between righteous and holy has to do with first the cleansing of sins unto death that then make you righteous. Then the long process of maturing all the fruit of the Spirit until you "never stumble" 2 Peter 1:5-11. When completed you are holy. Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see God. Jesus does both as the Author and Finisher of your faith.

So get far away from whoever it is that is teaching you garbage the demons love because it will send you to hell.
++++All desire to break one of God's commandments is cleansed from our sin nature making us clean.
Yet we all still continue to sin in some way
 

1stCenturyLady

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++++All desire to break one of God's commandments is cleansed from our sin nature making us clean.
Yet we all still continue to sin in some way
Speak for yourself!

Don't you know that you are opening yourself up for failure? If you sin, this is why? Paul said in Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 lest sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Proverbs 23:7 "for as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

If you are just trying to justify your sin, it's hot where you're going. So stop it.
 

Episkopos

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Righteousness involves action....doing. Righteousness is about doing. Obeying God and ACTING in accordance to His will. Faith fulfills that because it is His will that we trust Him do do with us what seems impossible (like giving us victory over sin).

Holiness is about being. We can't do anything of ourselves to BE holy. Holiness is about location. BEING in the presence of God.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Righteousness involves action....doing. Righteousness is about doing. Obeying God and ACTING in accordance to His will. Faith fulfills that because it is His will that we trust Him do do with us what seems impossible (like giving us victory over sin).

Holiness is about being. We can't do anything of ourselves to BE holy. Holiness is about location. BEING in the presence of God.
Romans 1:16-17 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.

Revelation 22:11b he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

1 John 3 is about Jesus as the Author of our first faith where he takes away all desire to willfully break any commandment of God out of our sin nature, making it clean. John 15:3. This is the chapter on Jesus as the Author of our first faith making us righteous and born again of the Spirit.

2 Peter 1:5-11 is the process of glorification where Jesus as the Finisher of our faith matures the fruit of the Spirit until we "never stumble" (10). Jesus makes us holy.
 

Fathom

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@Fathom @sondring7

I see you are both Christians, but you don't know why Jesus came and died for us? It was to take away the sin from our nature, returning it back to the perfect nature we were created with before Adam willfully sinned, and to destroy the works of the devil. It was Adam's free will that made him choose to break God's commandment, because Eve convinced him to eat. Don't you know what happens when we are born again of the Spirit? All desire to break one of God's commandments is cleansed from our sin nature making us clean.

sondring7, you, especially are deceived. The doctrine you quoted that "(sin) never stops till that last breath regardless of being a Christian or otherwise" is a doctrine of demons. Jesus is the Creator! Can't you grasp that He creates a clean nature in you. That doesn't mean you are perfect as there are still immature fruit of the Spirit that needs to mature. But sins unto death are no longer in our nature. Do you really lie, cheat, steal, murder and are sexually immoral? Then you need to repent and ask God for His Spirit. Revelation 22:11 tells us that those demons taught you to keep sinning until you die, not knowing that the state that you are in when you die remains.

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

The difference between righteous and holy has to do with first the cleansing of sins unto death that then make you righteous. Then the long process of maturing all the fruit of the Spirit until you "never stumble" 2 Peter 1:5-11. When completed you are holy. Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see God. Jesus does both as the Author and Finisher of your faith.

So get far away from whoever it is that is teaching you garbage the demons love because it will send you to hell.
If Jesus forgives our sins on the condition that we repent, doesn't that mean we need to take the step of repenting in order to receive forgiveness.

Is repentance a sign that we have been forgiven?
 

Azim

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Righteousness involves action....doing. Righteousness is about doing. Obeying God and ACTING in accordance to His will. Faith fulfills that because it is His will that we trust Him do do with us what seems impossible (like giving us victory over sin).

Holiness is about being. We can't do anything of ourselves to BE holy. Holiness is about location. BEING in the presence of God.

Where does righteousness come from? What is the source of righteousness?
If the enemy, Satan is the "father"/source of lies, who is the source of righteousness?
I ask, because it isn't in me to "do anything right". Something outside of me has to penetrate my inner being, to accept it or reject it. I am just a clay in the potters hand.
 

1stCenturyLady

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If Jesus forgives our sins on the condition that we repent, doesn't that mean we need to take the step of repenting in order to receive forgiveness.

Is repentance a sign that we have been forgiven?
That depends on if the desire to commit that sin is gone or remains. You are not the Author of your faith, Jesus is. You not committing that sin must be based not on your own willpower, but simply having no desire to commit it again. Only then do you know that Jesus has in fact cleansed your nature from being the sin nature you were born with, to a clean human nature. John 15:3

To not fall for doctrines of devils it helps to know the difference between the two types of sins. After being born again of the Spirit and you find you cannot willfully break a commandment of God, you will commit sins not unto death from immature fruit. If you become aware of it by the Spirit, repent. But don't expect God even allowing a born again of the Spirit Christian to repent of a willful mortal sin. Jesus is not going to get back up on the cross a second time. Hebrews 10:26-31.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Where does righteousness come from? What is the source of righteousness?
If the enemy, Satan is the "father"/source of lies, who is the source of righteousness?
I ask, because it isn't in me to "do anything right". Something outside of me has to penetrate my inner being, to accept it or reject it. I am just a clay in the potters hand.
Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our two faiths. Romans 1:17. The first faith is when we confess our weakness and turn ourselves over to God, and Jesus takes away sin from the sin nature we were born with, making us new creatures with a clean human nature with no desire to fall, and power given to you to be righteous. We then find we cannot commit willful sins unto death (breaking a commandment of God).

Then to make us holy, Jesus as the Finisher of our second stage of faith matures each fruit of the Spirit until we find ourselves "never stumbling." 2 Peter 1:2-11. That is perfect and holy.
 

Episkopos

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Where does righteousness come from? What is the source of righteousness?

Righteousness comes from love. It is love IN ACTION. Whether it come from our humanity, or from a new divine nature...it comes from love in the inner man. Faith works the same way....on both levels. From faith to FAITH. From our righteousness to God's righteousness.

If we are faithful in little we will also be faithful in much.
If the enemy, Satan is the "father"/source of lies, who is the source of righteousness?

God is. He created us in His image after all. When we do what is right we show forth the residual goodness that was created into us in the inner man.
I ask, because it isn't in me to "do anything right". Something outside of me has to penetrate my inner being, to accept it or reject it. I am just a clay in the potters hand.
There is also an outer husk that is mainly stronger than the inner man....in MOST people. But not all. God has seen to it that certain people have an understanding and a will to do what is right in difficult circumstances. Certain men are brave. Certain people are courageous.

Those people are examples to us.

The same goes for faith. Only a few have the faith to penetrate into the kingdom realm. Are these not also to be our examples?
 
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MostlyConfused

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Where does righteousness come from? What is the source of righteousness?
If the enemy, Satan is the "father"/source of lies, who is the source of righteousness?
I ask, because it isn't in me to "do anything right". Something outside of me has to penetrate my inner being, to accept it or reject it. I am just a clay in the potters hand.
Even unbelievers are capable of doing right to others but you say you can’t ever do right to others? I’m not talking about seeing that you also sometimes do wrong - as episkopos says, we are a mixture. But you can seek to never do harm to another and even to do active good toward them. You can seek to not despitefully and selfishly use others, to never steal what is theirs, and to forgive even when they treat YOU that way.

I think you are confusing righteousness and holiness. It’s a common problem with me too. I get, I see it, and then I lose it, and then I see it again.
 
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Fathom

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That depends on if the desire to commit that sin is gone or remains. You are not the Author of your faith, Jesus is. You not committing that sin must be based not on your own willpower, but simply having no desire to commit it again. Only then do you know that Jesus has in fact cleansed your nature from being the sin nature you were born with, to a clean human nature. John 15:3

To not fall for doctrines of devils it helps to know the difference between the two types of sins. After being born again of the Spirit and you find you cannot willfully break a commandment of God, you will commit sins not unto death from immature fruit. If you become aware of it by the Spirit, repent. But don't expect God even allowing a born again of the Spirit Christian to repent of a willful mortal sin. Jesus is not going to get back up on the cross a second time. Hebrews 10:26-31.
Do fasting and prayer play a vital role in the process of repentance, or are they no longer needed?

what do you mean when you say Jesus is the authored of my faith, not me?
 

sondring7

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Do fasting and prayer play a vital role in the process of repentance, or are they no longer needed?

what do you mean when you say Jesus is the authored of my faith, not me?
Jesus VIA Paul taught what was necessary for Fathom to enter Heaven
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13
Performance requirements :-
Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Titus 3:5-7, Rom 5:1

No confusion when you listen to the teachings of Jesus FOR TODAY :)
 

1stCenturyLady

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Do fasting and prayer play a vital role in the process of repentance, or are they no longer needed?

what do you mean when you say Jesus is the authored of my faith, not me?
Fasting is for hearing God clearly, but it is for those who have already repented and are born again of the Spirit.

Many people go to church and know all about Jesus, but are still a slave to sin, and are taught by false teachers in the same condition like the Pharisees who kept the letter of the Law, but their hearts were far from God. God only sees the humble who have integrity of heart who want to change, but truly see their sin and admit it as beyond themselves to change, and God acknowledges their plea and chooses them to fill with His Spirit and authors their faith taking all their desire to willfully sin far away from them, cleansing their sin nature of all unrighteousness. Then instead of self righteous, they are truly righteous with the righteousness of God as they now naturally love what God loves, and hate what God hates, being conformed to the image of Christ as they partake of the divine nature of God.