Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[amigo de christo]

What if it was neither?

It explains exactly what it was .
When any of us starts to detract from what it actually says that is where the p roblem begins .
Its only good to expound so long as when we expound we are in agreement to what was already written .
Not when or if we try and make void what it clearly said .
This is of ten the problem in many churches . And its clearly why we had so many difering denominations .
Though not all did that . Most did .
What we truly need to do and should do is just return afresh to what is written
and ensure we dont add too or take from .
Meaning that we do not try and go around and or omit something . Just believe as a child
the Truth left to us by men Who did know God . And we need to learn well and enjoy it for ourselves .
One key thing , If we had simply enjoyed reading it for ourselves daily
Without influence from wayward denominations , or the RCC .
But i mean just enjoy reading it daily . I tell us all things could be set right again .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Pr 16:33
The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord.

Jesus instructed the eleven and the 120 to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the Holy Spirit for power. Four of the power gifts had to do with hearing God's voice. Peter had a problem with knee jerk reactions that were not of God, like when he wanted to build tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah. He thought a lot of himself and frequently went overboard. Like when he swore he would never deny Jesus, then did.

 

[amigo de christo]

Agreed. In fact all the apostles prayed, not just Peter:

NKJV Act 1:23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
Act 1:25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."
Act 1:26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

shew which of these two you have Chosen . exactly .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It explains exactly what it was .
When any of us starts to detract from what it actually says that is where the p roblem begins .
Its only good to expound so long as when we expound we are in agreement to what was already written .
Not when or if we try and make void what it clearly said .
This is of ten the problem in many churches . And its clearly why we had so many difering denominations .
Though not all did that . Most did .
What we truly need to do and should do is just return afresh to what is written
and ensure we dont add too or take from .
Meaning that we do not try and go around and or omit something . Just believe as a child
the Truth left to us by men Who did know God . And we need to learn well and enjoy it for ourselves .
One key thing , If we had simply enjoyed reading it for ourselves daily
Without influence from wayward denominations , or the RCC .
But i mean just enjoy reading it daily . I tell us all things could be set right again .

It shows exactly what Peter did, and casting lots assured that one would be chosen. What right did Peter have in his choice of the two to choose from? There should have been a third choice of 'neither.'

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus instructed the eleven and the 120 to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the Holy Spirit for power. Four of the power gifts had to do with hearing God's voice. Peter had a problem with knee jerk reactions that were not of God, like when he wanted to build tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah. He thought a lot of himself and frequently went overboard. Like when he swore he would never deny Jesus, then did.

your using the bad examples of peter , to make a wrong point about what was GOOD .
People have done this a lot and thus they recreate false doctrine .
If you bother to read the whole of it
You will see it shows where they did the error and how it was exposed when they did .
However notice in this example . When peter did what he did and prayed to GOD , notice
it did not imply peter was in error .
IT shows us where the error was . But often people will show the errors of where they did do wrong ,
THEN use it to try and create an idea that Others things they did were bad too .
ONLY if what peter had done was wrong in praying to GOD about those two .
IT WOULD HAVE TOLD US . we would have seen the rebuke .
Just like when they tried to impose the law of circumsion upon the gentiles .
IT SHOWS US this was error and that they Fixed it .
but you are using peters errors in other places to MAKE what you SAY was ERROR to imply it
as if PETER was makin error again . NO if he had been it would have showed us it was error .
Just like you did with peter and paul . You are creating things to fit a inclusive pattern .
One that says judge not , rebuke not etc .
That pattern is dead wrong . Peter was rebuked by paul , because peter had slipped into a dissumalation .
And had to be corrected . And it was done before the church , so peter got rebuked before them all .
Those who sin rebuke before all that others may fear . That was why paul rebuked peter before them all . it was right to do so .
And it was very good for peter and the others that paul did . SO they could stop it instantly .

 

[amigo de christo]

It shows exactly what Peter did, and casting lots assured that one would be chosen. What right did Peter have in his choice of the two to choose from? There should have been a third choice of 'neither.'

not according to scripture nor GOD . IT had to be done .
Judas had fallen and one had to replace him .
And had peter been in error for doing this
WE would have seen them , or God telling them , cease this .
It was never corrected . Because it was of GOD .
You are simply THINKING it should have been . WHEN had it been necessary to
stop it or correct it , IT WOULD have been .
They had to cast lots for another who had to replace Judas .

 

[amigo de christo]

It shows exactly what Peter did, and casting lots assured that one would be chosen. What right did Peter have in his choice of the two to choose from? There should have been a third choice of 'neither.'

When cornelious kneeled before peter . Notice peter rebuked him .
When peter was in error , however , notice paul had to rebuke him .
It shows us where and when they were in error and that it got fixed .
MEANING everything written is absolutey good doctrine .
But people often try and invent t hings when they ought not to do such a thing .
You are messing up .
When you , so called prayed to GOD and asked him WHY was it now okay
to be a teacher . God was not the one that told it was okay for you to do so .
You were simply answered according to the idols of your heart .
But this can easily be fixed . Repent .
It would be like me saying GOD told me i could pray to budda
and when i asked him how is this now okay , Something tells me , IT JUST IS okay and uses twisted scrips.
IT WOULD NOT have been of GOD .
And how do i know . WELL read the bible . GOD desire all the worship and for us not to worship false gods .
SEE my point .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus instructed the eleven and the 120 to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the Holy Spirit for power. Four of the power gifts had to do with hearing God's voice. Peter had a problem with knee jerk reactions that were not of God, like when he wanted to build tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah. He thought a lot of himself and frequently went overboard. Like when he swore he would never deny Jesus, then did.

notice something yet .
You are using peters faults to try and imply that now something that peter did , that was RIGHT , was wrong .
That is a deadly mistake .
This is what i have been trying to tell you .
WE cannot remove the g ood by using their errors . What was in error was shown to us .
And it got corrected . The casting of the lot was never once shown to be in error .
IF it had been we would have seen it corrected .
The way you are learning things is not good .
When cornleious kneeled before peter , cornleious was in error and it showed us peter correcting him .
When peter and others had been in error , in a dissumlation paul explains to the church
IT had to b e CORRECTED . not only did pual remind the church of what to do
HE set the example as well .
Those who sin Rebuke before all that o thers may fear .
WE also see the same paul rebuking peter b efore all to cause them to fear and repent OF that dissimulation .
Yet you think it was judgmental of paul . see the point yet .
YOU are seeing e rror in it because you prefer the inclusive sensual love .
But again this can be corrected . The time to repent and begin afresh is now .
So start reading again for you , be in prayer and dont beleive things contrary to what is already written .

 

[amigo de christo]

It shows exactly what Peter did, and casting lots assured that one would be chosen. What right did Peter have in his choice of the two to choose from? There should have been a third choice of 'neither.'

It does show us exactly what peter did . Now notice it was NOT corrected .
And if it had b een error , IT WOULD have been .
When error occured , it shows us it was error .
You are inventing an error that DONT exist . to fit what you want to beleive .
That is a problem my dear sister .
WE cannot change what is written to fit what we want or desire to believe it means or should mean .
JUST BELEIVE what is written .
Never bend the truth to fit what one desires .
Rather BELIEVE THE TRUTH .

 

[amigo de christo]

It shows exactly what Peter did, and casting lots assured that one would be chosen. What right did Peter have in his choice of the two to choose from? There should have been a third choice of 'neither.'

do you see yet the danger in what you are doing .
I bet if someone else were doing this to fit another mindset
You could see it . but when its you doing it , you cannot see it .
Why do you think we got acceptance of sins in the churches now and even of unbeleif .
IF we wont beleive it as written , we have the problem .
And i bet , i just bet they did this in order to cause doubts in parts of the bible
IN ORDER to plant doubt IN THE BIBLE . and they have them trusting in men by DOING SO
and NOT IN GOD . this aint new sister . its how they have always decieved .
Its how they have always found a way to go around WHAT was written . That , IS bad news .
So the time to begin afresh is NOW .
Simply BELEIVE what is written and let us not try and a way around What was written .
RATHER BELEIVE and OBEY , like a child what they left us to read . BELEIVE IT .
And again the one time paul was writing to the church and it was NOT a co mmandment of the LORD
he told us , he told them .
Though i have to admit he had wisdom in what he had wrote .
YOU See its not a commandment FROM GOD
to remain single
Nor a commandment from GOD that a b eleiver had to remain married to an unbeleiver .
AND that was why paul said THIS IS NOT a commandment from GOD .
But he wrote it so perhaps the other spouse could be won to Christ .
BUT it was not a commandment at all by GOD .
The m ore we read that bible , the more it comes together sister .
SO my advice to you is to do just that . GO back to reading it again for yourself .
And not through the lens of lets find a way to go around something .
RATHER JUST BELEIVE what is written . YOu watch what happens . things get cleared up quite quickly .

 

[MostlyConfused]

Jesus instructed the eleven and the 120 to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the Holy Spirit for power. Four of the power gifts had to do with hearing God's voice. Peter had a problem with knee jerk reactions that were not of God, like when he wanted to build tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah. He thought a lot of himself and frequently went overboard. Like when he swore he would never deny Jesus, then did.

I had thought that what SW was meaning to convey is that even if what he did or how he chose was “wrong” or not how it was to be done any more, it just didn’t matter because God still, and despite, chose and directed and worked. And you can be assured God teaches us by and through our exuberant or misguided mistakes in order to instruct and inform us and to form us into what He can use. So He works on many different fronts at once.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Jesus instructed the eleven and the 120 to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the Holy Spirit for power. Four of the power gifts had to do with hearing God's voice. Peter had a problem with knee jerk reactions that were not of God, like when he wanted to build tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah. He thought a lot of himself and frequently went overboard. Like when he swore he would never deny Jesus, then did.

This is true. Just as what you said earlier about Paul was true. And it’s good to see and understand that men are still men when they are “out of season” or not walking in the Spirit at a certain time. But it’s also good to consult them even when they aren’t, as they retain…something, from having gone in, even when they’re out. Not that you look on them as infallible, of course not, but it would be foolish to not at least consider what is even just an opinion of theirs, knowing where they have been.

 

[amigo de christo]

be on guard . be aware and on gaurd .
for many false prophets abound who DO beleive they do the work and will of EVEN GOD .
And all who sit under them love to hear t heir words and to believe their words .
And now a word .
GOD DID NOT SEND THEM .
They were answered according to the IDOLS of their own hearts and those who sit under them
will surely be decieved and answered according to the idols of their hearts .
IF the prophet be decieved , I THE LORD GOD have deceived it . I will answer him according to the idols of his heart .
GOD did not send them , HE ALLOWED A LYING SPIRIT to seduce them all according to the idols of their hearts .
FOR WHEN HE CALLED they did not answer but ran to men who preached the lies that so pleased their flesh .
OH a lying spirit has indeed been sent . And sent unto the deceived within christendom
and unto the false religoins . And their prophets now cry , COME and let us be one .
FOR WE ALL serve the same GOD and this is the way to PEACE N SAFETY .
But oh no it aint , its the path to their own SUDDEN Destruction on the DAY of GOD and of the LAMB .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do not heed the many prophets of belial who now from within the denominations and RCC
and even the false religions now cry
COME and let us all be as one and find common ground . For we are all children of GOD it says .
And all are simply coming to the GOD , it says , in different ways .
LET US ALL b e one , let us all have one purse . for this is the way to peace n sa fety of the world .
And now a word .
A LYING all inclusvie spirit has been sent unto them to gather them as one under the guise this will b e for world peace n safety .
What do i see , what do i see one might ask .
I SEE THEM ALL SCATTERED on the day of the LORD , weeping and wailing but alas it is too late . THEIR OWN
sudden d estruction shall come upon them swiftly on the DAY of the LORD and by the vERY LORD
their love had denied . That is MY WARNING to this generation . And i will not have the blood
of this people on my hands .
FOR i shunned NOT to point TO THE ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS
AND THAT JESUS was no minstir o sin and unbeleif . the all inclusvie ecumeincal children of a harlot
WILL scatter on JESUS day . And seeing i desire not their death and destruction .
ITS WHY i warn GET OUT , COME out from amongst them and get in those bibles to learn Now .

 

[Lizbeth]

Not following along so pardon me....
but Peter did not eat all foods till 3 years after Jesus ascended.
Was that not a mistake??

If that is true, no I don't believe that was a mistake or sin concerning foods...that is a matter of conscience (as well as perhaps also just habit and taste). The Law was fading away....God didn't command new Jewish believers to immediately stop practicing everything contained in the Law, but left it as a matter of learning/growing, faith and conscience. (We would never tell a new Jewish believer that it is sin for them to avoid eating pork, for instance...because it isn't....that might be yucky for them and the new covenant isn't about food and drink. And its not sin for them to celebrate Passover or other feasts either. It would only be wrong if they were to try imposing those things on Gentiles or making it a matter of salvation.)

I'm talking about the new testament writings, the letters of the Apostles. I know Peter was not always in the right in what he did and the Lord has never hidden that, because there is much we can learn from his very human foibles - there are very good reasons in the Lord why his mistakes were written down for us. But if we start questioning the things that were written and not believing they are inspired, we are on a very slippery slope. Paul in particular seems to be a common target I've noticed.

 

[amigo de christo]

The great and mig hty DAY of the LORD approaches .
And though a harlot and her father had promised them all PEACE n SAFETY
and though many hands had joined in unity , fellowship and finding common ground .
ALL OF IT was a lie . Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelivers .
IT was NOT OF GOD , it was a lying spirit sent to decieve them all and to convince them all
to become as one man with one common purpose and that for world peace n safety .
ONLY on the GREAT and MIGHTY DAY of GOD and of the LAMB
there will b e no peace n safety for them , only sudden destruction , as in THEIR own .
COME YE out from amongst anything ecuemincal incluisive and its intefaith . And do not look back .

 

[Lizbeth]

What if it was neither?

What are your reasons for thinking so? Paul had not been discipled by Jesus in person. He was the first apostle really to receive that gift the same way we all receive our gifts since Christ ascended to heaven.

 

[GodsGrace]

1

If that is true, no I don't believe that was a mistake or sin concerning foods...that is a matter of conscience (as well as perhaps also just habit and taste). The Law was fading away....God didn't command new Jewish believers to immediately stop practicing everything contained in the Law, but left it as a matter of learning/growing, faith and conscience. (We would never tell a new Jewish believer that it is sin for them to avoid eating pork, for instance...because it isn't....that might be yucky for them and the new covenant isn't about food and drink. And its not sin for them to celebrate Passover or other feasts either. It would only be wrong if they were to try imposing those things on Gentiles or making it a matter of salvation.)

Lizbeth...let it be very clear that I did not mean to intend that Peter was sinning by not eating all foods.
I agree with you that it's a matter of conscience.

But I'd say that Peter spent 3 years with Jesus....shouldn't he have known that all foods could be eaten?
He SHOULD have understood this.

But I don't believe this is a topic that should continue for too long.

I'm talking about the new testament writings, the letters of the Apostles. I know Peter was not always in the right in what he did and the Lord has never hidden that, because there is much we can learn from his very human foibles - there are very good reasons in the Lord why his mistakes were written down for us. But if we start questioning the things that were written and not believing they are inspired, we are on a very slippery slope. Paul in particular seems to be a common target I've noticed.

Right.
None of the Apostles should be a target.
They all went on to have horrible deaths due to their teachings....we should never forget this.
As to mistakes...maybe Peter made some,,,,
but Jesus gave HIM the keys and he WAS the Bishop of Rome (Catholics like to say the first Pope, which is not historically correct but that's another topic) and the other Bishops did look to him when a question came up regarding doctrine...
so JESUS made no mistake...
even if Peter might have made a few before he understood everything really well.

 

[Lizbeth]

1


Lizbeth...let it be very clear that I did not mean to intend that Peter was sinning by not eating all foods.
I agree with you that it's a matter of conscience.

But I'd say that Peter spent 3 years with Jesus....shouldn't he have known that all foods could be eaten?
He SHOULD have understood this.

But I don't believe this is a topic that should continue for too long.



Right.
None of the Apostles should be a target.
They all went on to have horrible deaths due to their teachings....we should never forget this.
As to mistakes...maybe Peter made some,,,,
but Jesus gave HIM the keys and he WAS the Bishop of Rome (Catholics like to say the first Pope, which is not historically correct but that's another topic) and the other Bishops did look to him when a question came up regarding doctrine...
so JESUS made no mistake...
even if Peter might have made a few before he understood everything really well.

Well, yes, but he was not "Bishop" in the way that Catholics think of it in a worldly way. But it does seem he was singled out by Jesus and generally acknowledged to be chief among the apostles. Seeing how Peter was also singled out to have his mistakes written down I think Catholicism in particular need to reconsider their doctrine of "infallibility".

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, yes, but he was not "Bishop" in the way that Catholics think of it in a worldly way. But it does seem he was singled out by Jesus and generally acknowledged to be chief among the apostles. Seeing how Peter was also singled out to have his mistakes written down I think Catholicism in particular need to reconsider their doctrine of "infallibility".

LOL
No, Peter WAS the Bishop of Rome.
It's history.

And infallibility has nothing to do with this discussion.

But yes, he was chief.
BTW, James was the Bishop of Jerusalem.