Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Episkopos]

Our flesh is our physical body. It will be resurrected when the Lord returns for us.

Rom. 8:10,11 (W.E.B.)
10 If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Mortal bodies are not the sin nature, AKA the flesh, that fights against the Spirit. The Spirit of God is not physical and the fight is not like an arm wrestling match with the body. Paul was not physically crucified when he said "I am crucified with Christ". The reason why uncrucified flesh sins is because the sin nature is embedded in the carnal husk over the soul...it is invisible but ACTS on the body. Paul said, in Romans 7 BEFORE being crucified with Christ...it is no longer I but sin IN me. He was not talking about his body, but the sin nature that covers the soul...called the power of the flesh.

Those who are Christ's have had their flesh crucified (not physically) in order to take on a new covering...that of Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

Grace applies to us, but not the definition of a license to sin the church has adopted. It is the power of God to not sin. From what I've seen, you hold to the license to sin heresy.

Study to show yourself approved.

Absolutely not....I do not hold to OSAS or license to sin. Using grace as a license to sin is abusing grace. I'm talking about God having grace for our human condition....thanks to Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf.....which doesn't give us any excuse to knowingly or wilfully sin. IF anyone sins we have an Advocate...who ever lives to make intercession for us.....but we would need to be sincere in repentance and in endeavouring not to sin again on our end. When we partake of the Lord's supper we are even told to examine ourselves, in the event that there is anything we are aware of, or that comes to our awareness, that we need to bring to the cross and get right with God over...keeping "short accounts" with Him.

The word "study" means to "endeavour".....that is ye olde Englishe usage of the word. The bible isn't a textbook and the Lord isn't telling us to rely on our carnal minds for understanding.

 

[rmb60]

You're wrong. If you let yourself dwell on a temptation you are confronted with, you are setting yourself up for failure. But if your conscience says turn away and you do, you cannot be enticed. One who is born again of the Spirit has the same seed in them that Jesus had and what they want above anything is to do the will of the Father. You have no desire to sin.

Jesus commands that you are to visit strangers in goal, do you do that ?

 

[rmb60]

That's true of all of us.

Occasionally, I've come across someone who claims sinless perfection; but, when investigated, it turns out that he has re-defined sin to omit the sins that he commits, or he is just in pride and denial.

When someone claims to be sinless I see a sinner just as I do when I look in the mirror.
In human terms their sin may not be as bad as others yet they are and remain a sinner regardless of their claims.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus commands that you are to visit strangers in goal, do you do that ?

It indeed takes courage to visit a Christian believer who has been unlawfully imprisoned for his faith.

 

[David1701]

It is not a sin to recognize that a woman is sexually attractive.

Recognising that a woman is sexually attractive does not, in itself, involve any sexual desire, so it is not what I was talking about.

That is a natural biological function of the flesh. The temptation is to fulfill that desire in an unlawful way. Jesus was tempted in all ways just as we are. He was confronted with the desire to fulfill the desires of the flesh in unlawful ways just as we are.

The desire for sexual interaction, with a woman who is not your wife, is adultery, just as much as the physical action is.

Matt. 5:27,28 (Webster)
27 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say to you, That whoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[rmb60]

It indeed takes courage to visit a Christian believer who has been unlawfully imprisoned for his faith.

The commandment is to visit strangers in goal,.
Matt 25:43 and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment

If able then you have no excuse.
I am able yet do not

 

[David1701]

Mortal bodies are not the sin nature, AKA the flesh, that fights against the Spirit. The Spirit of God is not physical and the fight is not like an arm wrestling match with the body. Paul was not physically crucified when he said "I am crucified with Christ". The reason why uncrucified flesh sins is because the sin nature is embedded in the carnal husk over the soul...it is invisible but ACTS on the body. Paul said, in Romans 7 BEFORE being crucified with Christ...it is no longer I but sin IN me. He was not talking about his body, but the sin nature that covers the soul...called the power of the flesh.

Those who are Christ's have had their flesh crucified (not physically) in order to take on a new covering...that of Christ.

Rom. 8:10-14 (W.E.B.)
10 If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.

As you can see, it is very clear that Paul is using "flesh" and "body" interchangeably here, so that it is known to everyone who reads it that they are the same thing, in this context.

 

[rmb60]

Recognising that a woman is sexually attractive does not, in itself, involve any sexual desire, so it is not what I was talking about.


The desire for sexual interaction, with a woman who is not your wife, is adultery, just as much as the physical action is.

Matt. 5:27,28 (Webster)
27 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say to you, That whoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Agreed and am a past long term adulterer, fornicator and though married would find it very difficult to reject a future liaison if the circumstances allowed it

 

[David1701]

Agreed and am a past long term adulterer, fornicator and though married would find it very difficult to reject a future liaison if the circumstances allowed it

God always gives his children a way out. It does not depend upon our will power, so we need to seek the Lord for the grace to avoid sinful actions, when temptations are placed before us.

1 Cor. 10:13 (KJV)
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[rmb60]

God always gives his children a way out. It does not depend upon our will power, so we need to seek the Lord for the grace to avoid sinful actions, when temptations are placed before us.

1 Cor. 10:13 (KJV)
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

When we sin we have chosen to sin.
I blame my sin on my actions, not someone elses.
I read a interesting interaction here between some posters
Mark 10:17 Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mark 10:21 One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
How many of us here have done that ?
Since we haven't do we then forfeit eternal life ? !!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Absolutely not....I do not hold to OSAS or license to sin. Using grace as a license to sin is abusing grace. I'm talking about God having grace for our human condition....thanks to Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf.....which doesn't give us any excuse to knowingly or wilfully sin. IF anyone sins we have an Advocate...who ever lives to make intercession for us.....but we would need to be sincere in repentance and in endeavouring not to sin again on our end. When we partake of the Lord's supper we are even told to examine ourselves, in the event that there is anything we are aware of, or that comes to our awareness, that we need to bring to the cross and get right with God over...keeping "short accounts" with Him.

The word "study" means to "endeavour".....that is ye olde Englishe usage of the word. The bible isn't a textbook and the Lord isn't telling us to rely on our carnal minds for understanding.

Explain this statement in the light of what type of sin you could inadvertently commit. It is the statement I mistook for you believing in the license to sin heresy.

"Grace includes power too, but also it does cover our sins (inadvertent), in the sense that the Lord will graciously overlook and not judge them."

 

[rmb60]

Explain this statement in the light of what type of sin you could inadvertently commit. It is the statement I mistook for you believing in the license to sin heresy.

"Grace includes power too, but also it does cover our sins (inadvertent), in the sense that the Lord will graciously overlook and not judge them."

You claim to be sinless yet are not
Do you visit strangers in goal ?
Have you sold everything ?
If not then why do you claim to be sinless ?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You claim to be sinless yet are not
Do you visit strangers in goal ?
Have you sold everything ?
If not then why do you claim to be sinless ?

So then you have sold everything? Do you live under a bridge?