Sins in others

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Soverign Grace

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how do you react when you see personal sin in others? How are we supposed to handle it? What is the role of love in the process?

It depends on who is committing the sin. If it is a close family member or friend then I would tell them. If it was a person I was doing business with I may say something depending on the circumstances. A lot of it depends on the relationship you have with the person. Scripture gives us a blueprint for when someone sins against us: "If your brother sins against you go and show him his fault..." But we're to "speak the truth in love." But sometime people don't want to turn from their sin and in that case you "shake the dust off your feet."
 
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bbyrd009

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Yes Mark, it is how she has lived her whole life, handouts. Always, handouts and digging her out of her own messes time and time again. She speaks out both sides of her mouth...she has lied, manipulated (tried, anyhow) stolen from me and used me for all she could get. Not so much as a thanks for letting me stay here for NEXT TO NOTHING! every rug in my home has been ruined by those who stayed here and, I finally realize that I cannot afford a roommate as they cost me more than if they were not even here! My peace is restored and I am very grateful. I'm much better living alone, always have been. Sorry, my anger just slipped out again :oops:
hey, there are ppl who are adept at allowing others to play savior or big daddy warbucks or even codependent, which both of those first two are models of, ppl with an MO that relies on other ppl for their status or whatever, and i know it is hard but at this remove anyway you can prolly see that she played you bc you were ripe to get played?

and i would just shut up here, no skin off me ok, but i respond bc the episode might cause you to think twice about rescuing someone deserving now, who is not manifesting Worm at all like she had to have been, someone who would naturally be less adept at playing to your weakness? It would serve you better to understand the weakness imo; we seek confirmation of our status and encouragement and praise from other ppl, right, and there are other ppl who seek ppl who are seeking to elevate themselves in that subtle manner that we now know as "codependence."

Which you are right now reading a codependent capital C type guy, ok, been recovering ten years at least and i am still easily if not as easily sucked into those situations, especially by more earnest ppl who are just trying to use stroking bc they are maybe desperate or they can see i'm wavering or whatever, to tip the scale. Which that has now become my tell-tale i guess, didnt realize it but i look for that as a sign so i can reject them, or i did for a while anyway, that was like the next phase, ha...now i give them all the rope they want, all comers, and just expect to get ripped off by the ones who stroke, whereas see like a Stranger i dont have to worry about at all, see, not even a little lol. Ppl stroking you to be friends might be sincere and they might just be after something, and for a coda the diff can be impossible to discern, and we are all pretty much terminally coda now i guess

so, fwiw as i see you have not really processed that episode yet i would suggest attending some Al-Anon meetings, they know all about codependence, but expect some pain, and dont be surprised when they start sounding like that episode was all your fault, ok? But if you can stand it, the heat, you will come out of it with better vision. You will inevitably reject all codas spiritually for a while, but then when you realize how coda everyone else is a new paradigm will kind of suggest itself, and lemme tell you codas hate nothing worse than to realize they are being patronized, which is what is really going on here i guess, see she was just adept at patronizing you without making it obvious, and you might not believe right now that you enjoy being patronized as long as it isnt too baldly obvious, which al-anon will provide the eye for that, if you will let them anyway, and then you will become adept at patronizing just obviously enough to make the point,

and lemme tell you there is nothing sweeter than honestly forgiving someone from your heart bc you understand, that does not want to be discovered much less forgiven lol, your forgiveness while they are still working out whether they have even been discovered or not, priceless ok. Cameras work best for discovery, but there are also situations you might engineer, early on anyway, but you get to where you dont need proof, see, bc you are not bringing charges anyway, you are bringing forgiveness, see, and ppl who do not realize that they are doing a bad thing bc they have dressed it up like it is a good thing--codependents, iow, do this a lot--well, forgiveness to them is like Holy Water, see, to a vampire.

Misplaced forgiveness is essentially a Superiority Complex, right, we are all fam with the one who believes they are in the right "taking the high road" even though they are basically whacked out of their minds, just using the forgiveness thing as a like a buffer, not really being forgiving at all, just playing the superior? So, the earnest corrollary of that, iow.
 
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Nancy

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hey, there are ppl who are adept at allowing others to play savior or big daddy warbucks or even codependent, which both of those first two are models of, ppl with an MO that relies on other ppl for their status or whatever, and i know it is hard but at this remove anyway you can prolly see that she played you bc you were ripe to get played?

and i would just shut up here, no skin off me ok, but i respond bc the episode might cause you to think twice about rescuing someone deserving now, who is not manifesting Worm at all like she had to have been, someone who would naturally be less adept at playing to your weakness? It would serve you better to understand the weakness imo; we seek confirmation of our status and encouragement and praise from other ppl, right, and there are other ppl who seek ppl who are seeking to elevate themselves in that subtle manner that we now know as "codependence."

Which you are right now reading a codependent capital C type guy, ok, been recovering ten years at least and i am still easily if not as easily sucked into those situations, especially by more earnest ppl who are just trying to use stroking bc they are maybe desperate or they can see i'm wavering or whatever, to tip the scale. Which that has now become my tell-tale i guess, didnt realize it but i look for that as a sign so i can reject them, or i did for a while anyway, that was like the next phase, ha...now i give them all the rope they want, all comers, and just expect to get ripped off by the ones who stroke, whereas see like a Stranger i dont have to worry about at all, see, not even a little lol. Ppl stroking you to be friends might be sincere and they might just be after something, and for a coda the diff can be impossible to discern, and we are all pretty much terminally coda now i guess

so, fwiw as i see you have not really processed that episode yet i would suggest attending some Al-Anon meetings, they know all about codependence, but expect some pain, and dont be surprised when they start sounding like that episode was all your fault, ok? But if you can stand it, the heat, you will come out of it with better vision. You will inevitably reject all codas spiritually for a while, but then when you realize how coda everyone else is a new paradigm will kind of suggest itself, and lemme tell you codas hate nothing worse than to realize they are being patronized, which is what is really going on here i guess, see she was just adept at patronizing you without making it obvious, and you might not believe right now that you enjoy being patronized as long as it isnt too baldly obvious, which al-anon will provide the eye for that, if you will let them anyway, and then you will become adept at patronizing just obviously enough to make the point,

and lemme tell you there is nothing sweeter than honestly forgiving someone from your heart bc you understand, that does not want to be discovered much less forgiven lol, your forgiveness while they are still working out whether they have even been discovered or not, priceless ok. Cameras work best for discovery, but there are also situations you might engineer, early on anyway, but you get to where you dont need proof, see, bc you are not bringing charges anyway, you are bringing forgiveness, see, and ppl who do not realize that they are doing a bad thing bc they have dressed it up like it is a good thing--codependents, iow, do this a lot--well, forgiveness to them is like Holy Water, see.

Misplaced forgiveness is essentially a Superiority Complex, right, we are all fam with the one who believes they are in the right "taking the high road" even though they are basically whacked out of their minds, just using the forgiveness thing as a like a buffer, not really being forgiving at all, just playing the superior? So, the earnest corrollary of that, iow.

Living alone the huge majority of my life, and liking it that way because it brought me peace. The last 7 years I have had several roomers and charged very low rent because I bought this little house (first house ever) I only rented the upstairs rooms, with a bathroom, to help to fix up things that need fixing and, nothing ever panned out so...now that I have been walking with God more than ever before, I will depend ONLY on Him for what is needed. Letting her stay here, I thought I would have a prayer partner, do bible studies...none of that happened...so, IMHO- she goes to Church for handouts and the pastor there does not seem to care what she has done. It has been since April 10th she has been gone and, my home is peaceful now. God would really have to get through to my thick skull is ever He wanted someone to live in my house again, if it were up to me, I would NEVER AGAIN have anyone living here. I am a very independent person and have been since High School. I love living alone with my dogs, plants :)D) and my peace. I'm not a doormat but I DID allow myself to be for a time. I do not want to go the other way and NOT know if God wants me to help out another Christian...she goes by the name above all names but, knowing her for 3 years, her fruits are rotten. She is so stuck in this self pity and poor me attitude that she totally ignores anybody else's needs. There is so much more to this and, I really don't want to write a tome, lol. I understand what you are saying about the CODA and, I do suppose we all are somewhat carrying that around. What I have so far gotten from God (at least I think it is from Him!)
"Trust no man."
 
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bbyrd009

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Living alone the huge majority of my life, and liking it that way because it brought me peace. The last 7 years I have had several roomers and charged very low rent because I bought this little house (first house ever) I only rented the upstairs rooms, with a bathroom, to help to fix up things that need fixing and, nothing ever panned out so...now that I have been walking with God more than ever before, I will depend ONLY on Him for what is needed. Letting her stay here, I thought I would have a prayer partner, do bible studies...none of that happened...so, IMHO- she goes to Church for handouts and the pastor there does not seem to care what she has done. It has been since April 10th she has been gone and, my home is peaceful now. God would really have to get through to my thick skull is ever He wanted someone to live in my house again, if it were up to me, I would NEVER AGAIN have anyone living here. I am a very independent person and have been since High School. I love living alone with my dogs, plants :)D) and my peace. I'm not a doormat but I DID allow myself to be for a time. I do not want to go the other way and NOT know if God wants me to help out another Christian...she goes by the name above all names but, knowing her for 3 years, her fruits are rotten. She is so stuck in this self pity and poor me attitude that she totally ignores anybody else's needs. There is so much more to this and, I really don't want to write a tomb, lol. I understand what you are saying about the CODA and, I do suppose we all are somewhat carrying that around. What I have so far gotten from God (at least I think it is from Him!)
"Trust no man."
ya, i kinda realized that, and imo that is a shame, i trust everyone and i am almost never disappointed now. See, our expectations differ, is maybe what it is?
 
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Nancy

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ya, i kinda realized that, and imo that is a shame, i trust everyone and i am almost never disappointed now. See, our expectations differ, is maybe what it is?
Yes, I suppose our expectations do differ. Yet, should we (Christians) not expect a certain attitude from another Christian? Like, oh I don't know...maybe LOVE?! Lol. If one claims to be a Christian yet, does not live or act like one...if it walks like, if it talks like. My discernment took a back seat, and my stupidity took it's place.
 

bbyrd009

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Yes, I suppose our expectations do differ. Yet, should we (Christians) not expect a certain attitude from another Christian? Like, oh I don't know...maybe LOVE?! Lol. If one claims to be a Christian yet, does not live or act like one...if it walks like, if it talks like. My discernment took a back seat, and my stupidity took it's place.
well, wadr that is how you characterize it, but the al-anon ppl might help you to another, possibly more pertinent pov? At least youll have...more than one to choose from after, lets say
 
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Nancy

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well, wadr that is how you characterize it, but the al-anon ppl might help you to another, possibly more pertinent pov? At least youll have...more than one to choose from after, lets say

Well, it is not a characterization but a reality IRL, that is. I prefer to remain Christian based, NOT that the secular has nothing to offer but...I prefer the best ;)
 

Stranger

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how do you react when you see personal sin in others? How are we supposed to handle it? What is the role of love in the process?

This brings up an interesting point. How could the 'Christian yankees', prior to the War between the States, furnish a terrorist, John Brown, with Sharps rifles and pikes to be used against other Christians in the South? John Brown claimed himself as Christian and those who knew him labeled him a true 'Puritan'.

"Both enemies and friends of John Brown, then considered him a deep-dyed Puritan. They were right. He was a Calvinist who admired the works of Jonathan Edwards. He was proud of his family roots in New England Puritanism." (John Brown, David S. Reynolds, Vintage, 2005, p. 19)

Brown was also a terrorist. "He was a terrorist because of his own interpretation of Puritan beliefs. Far from enforcing tame conformity, Puritanism unleashed militant individualism and warfare against institutions." (Reynolds, p. 19)

Puritanism had with it the belief of breaking the law of man in light of the law of God. "What linked Puritanism with Northern reform was its powerful heritage of antinomianism--the breaking of human law in the name of God. " (Reynolds, p. 16)

So, the so called Christians in the North were willing to kill and destroy their Southern brethren for what they considered the sins of the South. As they continue to do today.

Stranger