Sins in others

[Nancy]

Then, if the elders in the church of the offended party are doing their jobs, they would meet with the elders of the other church, and bring the matter to their attention. And if those elders are conscientious, they will address the matter with their offending church member, and try to resolve it. While this kind of situation is not discussed in the NT, it would be consistent with this passage:

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the Word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation [manner of life]... Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (Heb 13:7,17)

Yes, I can understand this. I did actually speak with her Pastor...I used to attend there. He knows I am not a Calvinist and since he learned that, he seemed to snub me. I spoke to him about this problem and, he could not give me the time of day, all I said to him was that I do not like division and want to know why the person in question would not speak with me, even though she used me, lied to me and stole from me after allowing her to live in my home for almost two years and, I charged her next to nothing...including all. I don't care about "things" I care that she will not own up to it and just will not even look at me. Only saw her once a couple weekends ago when we had the 5 Church community picnic. We are all on the same block pretty much and, I forced myself to walk over to my old Church, she just walked away from me when I approached her so, as far as I am concerned...I HAVE tried to make peace but...she does not. Sad.

 

[Mayflower]

Good verse there about not being double minded.

I love using that one out of context (jokingly of course)

 

[farouk]

I love using that one out of context (jokingly of course)

Good when in context, too!

 

[Enoch111]

I HAVE tried to make peace but...she does not. Sad.

Looks like you've done everything humanly possible. Now it's time to move on and forget her shenanigans.

 

[Nancy]

Looks like you've done everything humanly possible. Now it's time to move on and forget her shenanigans.

Yes Enoch, you are correct...took me a while to pray for her well being but, God has brought me to that place. ♥

 

[bbyrd009]

According to Scripture, Christians can only address sins in others who are within their local church or assembly. Every church in the Bible was an autonomous church with elders and deacons. However, all the Christians within that church were part of the same spiritual family.

So if a brother or sister were sinning, anyone within that church could approach them and try to put them back on track. With love, meaning you do not make excuses for them, or allow them to make excuses for themselves. Here is one very pertinent Scripture:

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20).

This corresponds to another passage in Hebrews 12:15,16: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

When it comes to someone who has sinned against you personally, then there is a distinct procedure which must be followed as given in Matthew 18:15-17:
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

ha and if you ever do follow that, one single time, boy are you ever going to get a lesson, i tell ya what! Ever seen that deal where youre the one who's righht, but the other guy is gettin all the sympathy?

see i love HR too, ok, which is why i did not mind him getting all the sympathy, and me getting just what i had comin. ok. that is the lesson that is hidden in them instructions bro. overlook, ignore even, do what the three year old is doin there, if ya know whats good for you, k?

I mean bam try that other thing sometime imo, but dont be surprised when ok. Bc i can quote a link for every step, and you can read it if you like. Ha the icing on the cake let him be like an unbeliever to you ha Scripture is sure God~Breathed, i tell ya what.

(how are believers supposed to um "treat" unbelievers anyway, someone might ask)

 

[bbyrd009]

how do you react when you see personal sin in others? How are we supposed to handle it? What is the role of love in the process?

"overlooking" come up yet? thats what id be doin myself

 

[Nancy]

ha and if you ever do follow that, one single time, boy are you ever going to get a lesson, i tell ya what! Ever seen that deal where youre the one who's righht, but the other guy is gettin all the sympathy?

see i love HR too, ok, which is why i did not mind him getting all the sympathy, and me getting just what i had comin. ok. that is the lesson that is hidden in them instructions bro. overlook, ignore even, do what the three year old is doin there, if ya know whats good for you, k?

I mean bam try that other thing sometime imo, but dont be surprised when ok. Bc i can quote a link for every step, and you can read it if you like. Ha the icing on the cake let him be like an unbeliever to you ha Scripture is sure God~Breathed, i tell ya what.

(how are believers supposed to um "treat" unbelievers anyway, someone might ask)

"Ever seen that deal where youre the one who's righht, but the other guy is gettin all the sympathy?"
YES!!! And let me say, THAT is quite the lesson in humility. When you KNOW another "Christian" is being dishonest yet, they are the ones who always get mollycoddled. I accept the wrong she did to me, and yes I was angry that she did not respond to my attempts to settle this thing between her and I. I have washed my hands of it. I do pray for her now, as before I just could not. All I did right after all of this stuff happened was argue in my own head with her!!! I HATE when that happens.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Ever seen that deal where youre the one who's righht, but the other guy is gettin all the sympathy?"
YES!!! And let me say, THAT is quite the lesson in humility. When you KNOW another "Christian" is being dishonest yet, they are the ones who always get mollycoddled. I accept the wrong she did to me, and yes I was angry that she did not respond to my attempts to settle this thing between her and I. I have washed my hands of it. I do pray for her now, as before I just could not. All I did right after all of this stuff happened was argue in my own head with her!!! I HATE when that happens.

victims become quite adept at mining sympathy, which is only naturally going to come from certain quarters when disturbed, as we mostly overlook shortcomings in our gang, right. I could as easily been the one sticking up for her, or HR for that matter, dunno if this is that thread or not. That is how forgiving really most ppl are, at least with their gang right, and also how adept they can become at literally existing like that, she is doing it right now to someone else see bc she does not know any other way, its just what she learned, and if you go back to the old gang who gave her sympathy then and catch up with them youll usually find theyve all caught up to you right

 

[rockytopva]

Obloquy - Telling the truth to destroy a persons reputation.

The scriptural way to deal with it...

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - Matthew 18:15-17

 

[Nancy]

victims become quite adept at mining sympathy, which is only naturally going to come from certain quarters when disturbed, as we mostly overlook shortcomings in our gang, right. I could as easily been the one sticking up for her, or HR for that matter, dunno if this is that thread or not. That is how forgiving really most ppl are, at least with their gang right, and also how adept they can become at literally existing like that, she is doing it right now to someone else see bc she does not know any other way, its just what she learned, and if you go back to the old gang who gave her sympathy then and catch up with them youll usually find theyve all caught up to you right

Yes Mark, it is how she has lived her whole life, handouts. Always, handouts and digging her out of her own messes time and time again. She speaks out both sides of her mouth...she has lied, manipulated (tried, anyhow) stolen from me and used me for all she could get. Not so much as a thanks for letting me stay here for NEXT TO NOTHING! every rug in my home has been ruined by those who stayed here and, I finally realize that I cannot afford a roommate as they cost me more than if they were not even here! My peace is restored and I am very grateful. I'm much better living alone, always have been. Sorry, my anger just slipped out again

 

[Mayflower]

Good when in context, too!

Yes! Submit therefore to God resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands you sinners. Purify your hearts you double minded . Be miserable and mourn and weep. Let your joy be made to mourning and your joy to gloom.

All about repentance. Beautiful. James something. Lol. One sec. Lol

 

[Mayflower]

Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.
JAMES 4:7‭-‬10 NASB

 

[farouk]

Yes! Submit therefore to God resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands you sinners. Purify your hearts you double minded . Be miserable and mourn and weep. Let your joy be made to mourning and your joy to gloom.

All about repentance. Beautiful. James something. Lol. One sec. Lol

Good verses there! Paul also writes about repentance in Romans 2.

 

[Mayflower]

Good verses there! Paul also writes about repentance in Romans 2.

I want to read back over Romans 2 again. Thanks! I think this passage goes well for this topic.

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
MATTHEW 7:1‭-‬6 NASB

 

[farouk]

I want to read back over Romans 2 again. Thanks! I think this passage goes well for this topic.

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
MATTHEW 7:1‭-‬6 NASB

Yes, I agree. So many Bible passages blend thematically with one another.

 

[farouk]

@Mayflower 2 Corinthians 7.10 also, about repentance:

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

 

[Phoneman777]

Are you talking about other Christians?

That's why I like reading you posts! The "don't judge me" movement blurs the Biblical distinction between the two

 

[Phoneman777]

So here is how I see personal sin in others:

1. We can only see it in order to root out our own sin. If it is not within us in some form, we cannot register it as sin
2. When I see personal sin in others I seek it out within myself
3. Identified, I need to ask myself, “how can I love better?” If it is lying, like when I am watching Trump, I identify my own dishonesty and commit to honesty as a form of complete loving action.
4. With practice, and God grace, I am on a sanctification path

Trump lies? To what specifics do you refer?

And, how did you feel when you found out Obama's "Affordable Care Act" architect admitted in this video that they deliberately employed a lack of transparency about the Obamacare bill so that "the stupidity of the American voter" could be exploited in order to get this train wreck legislation passed by Congress?

How did you feel when you found out Obama's words, "If you like your plan, you get to keep you plan...if you like you doctor, you get to keep your doctor" were blatant lies Obama told directly to the American people - lies to which the Fake News media refuses to hold Obama and the Democrats and RINOs accountable?

 

[Phoneman777]

Then, if the elders in the church of the offended party are doing their jobs, they would meet with the elders of the other church, and bring the matter to their attention. And if those elders are conscientious, they will address the matter with their offending church member, and try to resolve it. While this kind of situation is not discussed in the NT, it would be consistent with this passage:

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the Word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation [manner of life]... Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (Heb 13:7,17)

Whoa, Dead Bread says this "rule over" verse means the papacy has the right to change God's law and put you to death for not following the change.