SinSinSin

[Taken]

Taken, do you ever sin????

No.

 

[dev553344]

Has anyone else noticed that threads which discuss our salvation become so focused on sin?

Why is that?

Salvation is through faith in Christ.

Why aren't we talking more about that?

Much love!

Many Christians believe in works on top of Grace thru Faith. The bible supports that idea.

One thing I've noticed is that Jesus speaks of works, which if not adhered to will place a person in hell, sin leads to hell, not taking care of the sick, naked, homeless leads a person to hell. These are all things Jesus proclaimed.

Paul proclaimed salvation was from Grace thru faith.

God the Father made a distinction between prophets and Jesus: Matthew 17:1-8

1Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” 6When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

I don't just listen to Jesus, although I have "red-letter" Christian acquaintances that do. But Jesus speaks louder than prophets.

 

[Taken]

...a license to sin.

Since you brought this up...

I've never heard a person claim "THEY" have "a license to sin."

But I have heard One make that claim "for another".

What exactly does that mean?
Who "issues" such a "license"?
Who "receives" such a license?
How and When?
Is there a "penalty" for people who "sin", without a "license to sin"?

What is an example of "someone" sinning "with a license to sin?"

What is an example of "someone" sinning "without a license to sin"?

 

[TheslightestID]

Since you brought this up...

I've never heard a person claim "THEY" have "a license to sin."

But I have heard One make that claim "for another".

What exactly does that mean?
Who "issues" such a "license"?
Who "receives" such a license?
How and When?
Is there a "penalty" for people who "sin", without a "license to sin"?

What is an example of "someone" sinning "with a license to sin?"

What is an example of "someone" sinning "without a license to sin"?

It's nothing more than a term used to describe the theology some have on how they are allowed to continue in sin as a Christian, and remain saved. Pretty self explanatory.

An example you asked for on sinning with or without a license would be those who sin by temptation on occasion, but do not live in sin, and vice versa.

Most of your other questions are pretty silly so I'll leave them to someone who may have nothing better to do.

 

[justbyfaith]

Taken, do you ever sin????

No.

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

Do you wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin? Do you blow the trumpet every new moon?

If you don't, then you have violated the standard of God's righteousness in the law and therefore, you have sinned; and you sin every moment that you are not wearing tzitzit and tallit and tefilin, you sin every new moon when you don't blow the trumpet.

The apostle Paul wrote to us in Galatians 6:13 that even those who are sticklers for the law are unable to keep it.

You would do well to consider the following.

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Are you calling Paul a liar?

How do you figure I'm calling Paul a liar?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@justbyfaith

I’ll repeat.

I keep ALL the commandments/law based on this standard:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

You implied that I do not keep the law based on frivolous ceremonial issues that Paul himself dismissed here:

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Galatians 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

And here:

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

Many Christians believe in works on top of Grace thru Faith. The bible supports that idea.

One thing I've noticed is that Jesus speaks of works, which if not adhered to will place a person in hell, sin leads to hell, not taking care of the sick, naked, homeless leads a person to hell. These are all things Jesus proclaimed.

Paul proclaimed salvation was from Grace thru faith.

Works don't save a man.

However, if a man is truly saved / born again, he will have a heart of compassion towards those who are hurting; whom Jesus calls the least of these my brethren; and says that inasmuch as you do something to one of them, you do it unto Him.

The works testify to the salvation that resides within.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

If someone calls on the name of the Lord and has the opportunity to do good to Jesus, you can be certain that they will not miss out on that opportunity.

But if that opportunity never presents itself, the fact that they never fed Jesus when He was hungry, etc. is not going to be to their condemnation. If they could have, they would have. But since they lacked opportunity, their lack also of works is not to their condemnation. The fact that they called on the name of the Lord is enough to save them if their calling out was in genuine faith.

Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7). Therefore the outward works of helping Jesus when He is hungry, etc. is how man can determine if someone's salvation is genuine.

However, the Lord does not need any such kind of outward work to show Him whether or not someone is genuinely saved. He knows.

So, when God says,

Rom 9:15, For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

It should be evident that this is because God knows the heart; and no matter what man's judgment may be based on the outward appearance, God's judgment will prevail.

You may have, on one hand, someone who did good all their lives and yet were trusting in their works to save them, and, on the other hand, a murderer who at the end of their lives believed in what Jesus did for them on the Cross and were changed from the inside out. And, they never did any good works; but died immediately after receiving salvation as a free gift.

Which one goes to heaven?

I say to you truly that it is the latter.

Because the first was never redeemed.

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith

I’ll repeat.

I keep ALL the commandments/law based on this standard:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

You implied that I do not keep the law based on frivolous ceremonial issues that Paul himself dismissed here:

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Galatians 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

And here:

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Have you considered what Jesus said about the law?

Mat 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[BarneyFife]

When you are speaking with me, it's a straw man. I've never given you any indication I think that way, and I don't.

It's a straw man, and if you ascribe such to me, its a false witness.

Much love!

At the risk of being unduly flattering, I believe you have a higher understanding of Soteriology than some of us. The problem (if I may) is in the way we may sometimes express it. Ascribing false witness (a textbook sin) to someone who is merely having trouble understanding or communicating with you might not be the wisest course (it is very similar to calling someone an idolater or an adulterer), even if they come off as offensive. We are to be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves, no?

We really have to get to the point where we are not offended when we are misunderstood if we want to truly have the mind of Christ. He never defended Himself. His only concern was the image of His Father. In like manner, our focus should be the image of Christ. He really left us a perfect example.

In the spirit of confessing our faults one to another and praying for one another (James 5:16): I have a problem with impulsivity. It projects an image of Christ that makes me ashamed when I speak as His representative. Please pray for me.

 

[BarneyFife]

If you believe you must fight and struggle against sin you will, since that becomes the life you choose. But if you believe that God has freed us from sin you can be free, choosing to walk in that life.

Good stuff, M.

 

[dev553344]

Works don't save a man.

However, if a man is truly saved / born again, he will have a heart of compassion towards those who are hurting; whom Jesus calls the least of these my brethren; and says that inasmuch as you do something to one of them, you do it unto Him.

The works testify to the salvation that resides within.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

If someone calls on the name of the Lord and has the opportunity to do good to Jesus, you can be certain that they will not miss out on that opportunity.

But if that opportunity never presents itself, the fact that they never fed Jesus when He was hungry, etc. is not going to be to their condemnation. If they could have, they would have. But since they lacked opportunity, their lack also of works is not to their condemnation. The fact that they called on the name of the Lord is enough to save them if their calling out was in genuine faith.

Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7). Therefore the outward works of helping Jesus when He is hungry, etc. is how man can determine if someone's salvation is genuine.

However, the Lord does not need any such kind of outward work to show Him whether or not someone is genuinely saved. He knows.

So, when God says,

Rom 9:18, Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

It should be evident that this is because God knows the heart; and no matter what man's judgment may be based on the outward appearance, God's judgment will prevail.

You may have, on one hand, someone who did all their lives and yet were trusting in their works to save them, and, on the other hand, a murderer who at the end of their lives believed in what Jesus did for them on the Cross and were changed from the inside out. And, they never did any good works; but died immediately after receiving salvation as a free gift.

Which one goes to heaven?

I say to you truly that it is the latter.

Because the first was never redeemed.

While what you're saying touches upon truth, I don't base my salvation on one verse from Paul, but rather all verses. Works matter to God for your salvation clearly. Unless you can't provide them. Cheers.

 

[Taken]

marks-
It seems yet again there is a lot of dancing around ... mentions of sin, committing sin, accusations of sin, and making lack of works a sin...and hiding from a being forgiven of sin and free from sin.

It's like a tiger by the tail for some, ya, ya... they sin...and can be forgiven of sin...by God, by men...but, but, but; it's temporary...cuz, tomorrow, although ("they" try really hard, not to sin, it will probably happen anyway, ) so they will Repeat Again, and Ask God and men to forgive them of sin.

That sounds to me LIKE...the BIG news and BETTER Testament of Jesus..."FOR Some"...
That talk in circles...

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

... is being "made out to be"...something along the lines of...

"Great news folks...You no longer need to bring an Animal to the Temple for slaughter, Once a Year...and BE Forgiven for your Years Worth of Sins...
You can, believe Jesus' Body/ Blood was killed for you...and Now you can Ask Jesus, and Priests "Everyday" to Forgive all the sins you committed "each" day.
The Good News Testament...(for some) appears to Hang on...
1) you can have a Daily Forgiveness INSTEAD of a Yearly Forgiveness.

AND

2) Receiving THAT daily "forgiveness" is heavily Dependent on..."IF" you DID some "good works"...

WHICH

3) IF YOU didn't DO Any Good Works...
"You will be Forgiven your Sins that day" IF YOU ask...but Since you DIDN'T Do Good Works...you will go to hell.

Anyway...this seems to be the direction and circle that some project every time the question of SIN is brought up.

And conveniently...1 John 3:9...has utterly no consideration...

[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

While what you're saying touches upon truth, I don't base my salvation on one verse from Paul, but rather all verses. Works matter to God for your salvation clearly. Unless you can't provide them. Cheers.

Basically, what I said.

Except, that works do not save a man but are the sure result of a genuine faith.

 

[dev553344]

Basically, what I said.

Except, that works do not save a man but are the sure result of a genuine faith.

OK, but works may just show Christ that you care about him and his children. Forget faith?

 

[BarneyFife]

And, I think that you need to understand that she is addressing the broader issue of the doctrine in question and not only your beliefs on the doctrine in question.

Make no mistake, @CharismaticLady is deeply concerned about the salvation of the people she addresses, however forceful and cutting her expression may appear to be.

 

[Taken]

It's nothing more than a term used to describe the theology some have on how they are allowed to continue in sin as a Christian, and remain saved. Pretty self explanatory.

Point being...
It is all strawman.
One declaring A belief, act, and claims "FOR another..."
When the other, never makes that claim of Belief or Act.

An example you asked for on sinning with or without a license would be those who sin by temptation on occasion, but do not live in sin, and vice versa.

Most of your other questions are pretty silly so I'll leave them to someone who may have nothing better to do.

Again strawman... the accuser...dictating false beliefs and false acts for another.

Ya the questions may sound silly...but then, so are the accusations.

 

[BarneyFife]

While what you're saying touches upon truth, I don't base my salvation on one verse from Paul, but rather all verses. Works matter to God for your salvation clearly. Unless you can't provide them. Cheers.

Bingo. We have a winner.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Have you considered what Jesus said about the law?

Have you considered what Paul said?

The Apostle who wrote the commandments of the Lord?

I already quoted them to you but you are not moved by them.

So I’ll leave it here.

 

[BarneyFife]

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

I think it's important to note that sin is no longer the transgression of the law contained in ordinances that were only meant to be types or shadows of the Christ. The law of commandments written upon stone is what points out sin.

 

[BarneyFife]

I already quoted them to you but you are not moved by them.

So you have the power to look upon the heart, do you, whereas the rest of us can only look upon the outward appearance?