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Ferris Bueller

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The law was for Israel alone, so if you are a gentile, it never applied to you at any time anyway
Then why is the whole world accountable to it and condemned by it? Romans 3:19

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

The whole world is under the law and held accountable to God. If that was not true then the teaching that the law of Moses was given to put us gentiles to death (so we can turn to Christ) is a lie.
 

Ferris Bueller

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The church is under teh New law of Christ and not the old law of Moses for Israel.
The law of Christ is simply what remains of the law of Moses to be fulfilled by the sons of God. Christ and his people don't need laws that govern how to correctly approach God in covenant worship (they're already there). Christ didn't remove those laws from the law and invent a new law. They simply do not need to be taken into consideration for fulfillment by Christ and his body because they are already fulfilled and satisfied for us through Christ's sacrifice. And so they have been 'set aside' (not destroyed and broken). That leaves what Paul refers to as the law of Christ (laws which Christ himself would keep), the laws of which are summarized in 'love your neighbor as yourself'.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Only as is applicable to our culture. There are laws in the law of Moses that governed what they did at that time. In those cases, we don't read those laws and then start doing the thing being governed. You govern what you are doing (if you are doing those things) according to how the law says to govern them. And don't forget, various laws can also find their fulfillment in the eyes of God according to the spiritual truth the literal law is pointing to.
And who gets to decide which ones are which? Who sits on that governing board making those decisions binding to the church or body of Christ?
Okay, just one more, lol!

If you don't own a field that the law tells you how to govern, why do you need a governing board to decide if that law literally applies to you?
 

justbyfaith

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For @Blood Bought 1953,

Eph 5:1, Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2, And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3, But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4, Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5, For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6, Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7, Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Col 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2, Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3, For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4, When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5, Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6, For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7, In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
 

Ferris Bueller

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So you are saying culture determines which laws of god we obey or not?
Your particular cultural practices determine if you're doing something the law governs and so need to obey the law concerning those practices. For example, "Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement"—Deuteronomy 23:12-14. We don't crap on the ground in our culture for that law to have any application to us. But if we did we would do that according to the law. It's almost like the church thinks if we're going to be under the law then we have to start crapping on the ground to be in compliance with the law. That's not what upholding the law means, but that's the kind of convoluted thinking the church has.

So abortion is okay then and gay marriages are okay then? After all they are both legal in our culture.
Both those practices are governed by the law. Just because we approve of those things in our culture does not mean we are relieved of the responsibility to govern ourselves according to the law. Which, by the way, shows that the law is not only for the Jew. Judgment is coming to the United States, and is already here because of these two very things (among others). As Paul said, the whole world will be judged according to the law. The law the church claims was only given to the Jews.
 

Ferris Bueller

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@Blood Bought 1953,'

I would encourage you to read Matthew, chapters 5-7 and also make obedience to its tenets, the foundation of your Christianity.

For this is what Jesus said at the end of the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew chapters 5-7):

Mat 7:24, Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25, And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26, And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27, And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


And you should consider also what He said immediately before it:

Mat 7:21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
He will say that 'doing the will of the Father in heaven' is talking about believing in Christ, alone, and has nothing to do with performing any works commanded by Jesus. They think that would be a works gospel if that's what he meant. They are literally only able to see the requirement to do works as you trying to earn your own salvation. They can't see how it can possibly mean anything other than that. And they are the one's who claim to have superior understanding and revelation. They have no capacity whatsoever to see, let alone accept, the teaching that works are required because not working is tantamount to a denial of Christ in unbelief.
 

justbyfaith

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He will say that 'doing the will of the Father in heaven' is talking about believing in Christ, alone, and has nothing to do with performing any works commanded by Jesus. They think that would be a works gospel if that's what he meant. They are literally only able to see the requirement to do works as you trying to earn your own salvation. They can't see how it can possibly mean anything other than that. And they are the one's who claim to have superior understanding and revelation. They have no capacity whatsoever to see, let alone accept, the teaching that works are required because not working is tantamount to a denial of Christ in unbelief.
What would he say that "These sayings of mine" are then? To say that the obedience to the will of the Father is not obedience to the Sermon on the Mount would be to take these scriptures out of context. But thanks, I will go back and edit the post for greater clarity.
 

justbyfaith

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What conclusion did I make?

I think that all I did was relate what those verses say, exactly.

If you disagree with the conclusion that you made after reading those verses together, then, well, you are disagreeing with your own conclusion!

Wrong again. Your opinions on what those verses say show a subtle allegorical shift from what is written based on your commentary.

@Ronald Nolette In the end it's the Word itself that is the reference point... :)
 

BloodBought 1953

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Not so.

No where in the New Testament does it say that 1 Corinthians 15 is the only scripture God is going to ask us about; that’s an invention of man.

And it is astonishing that you have been fooled into believing that the scriptures contain multiple gospels despite the warning in scripture itself that says if anyone preaches any other gospel let him be accused (Galatians 1:8-9). Thus you have placed the Holy Ghost himself under this curse because these so called other gospels that you imagine are in the scripture where inspired by the Holy Spirit.

This is a GRAVE error because, if you really believe there is more than one gospel in scripture, you effectively have placed a curse on the Holy Spirit.

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation

You better sober up from whatever cup a false teacher gave you to drink and watch what you’re saying. Playing around with scripture is dangerous.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Wow ! Get “ carried away” much? Lol.....
 

HisLife

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Wow ! Get “ carried away” much? Lol.....

Haha right imagine if these guys really did have any authority who would stand a chance...they Fail there own standards, If the measure you use will be measured to you applies All the best to them, I see you always teach Grace how wonderful to have that measure applied to you
 
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justbyfaith

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Haha right imagine if these guys really did have any authority who would stand a chance...they Fail there own standards, If the measure you use will be measured to you applies All the best to them, I see you always teach Grace how wonderful to have that measure applied to you
He does not always teach grace....he teaches that those who preach repentance and a changed life are going to go to hell for their preaching.

That is not grace....that is condemnation.
 

Ferris Bueller

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What would he say that "These sayings of mine" are then? To say that the obedience to the will of the Father is not obedience to the Sermon on the Mount would be to take these scriptures out of context. But thanks, I will go back and edit the post for greater clarity.
I think his theology just ignores that he's talking about putting the words into practice that he just spoke. Not being snarky. I think that is exactly what it does.
 

HisLife

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He does not always teach grace....he teaches that those who preach repentance and a changed life are going to go to hell for their preaching.

That is not grace....that is condemnation.

He does Teach Repentance, proper Repentance of turning to Jesus, He as I oppose Repenting of sins to be saved as it is not in the Bible and Is not possible to achieve, In My opinion is it is Satans Last Effort to put doubt in someone's mind before they accept the Gospel, I heard a video of someone leading someone to Jesus and they were doing a pretty good job and they said do you want to be saved the person said Yes then they said there is a carrot First you have to repent of your sins, The person looked Confused and demoralized and didn't go any further, it's an impossible trap

Changed Life is Great And Should happen but salvation is not by works so its a different discussion, Truth hurts but if it is not by grace you are still condemned
 
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justbyfaith

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He as I oppose Repenting of sins to be saved as it is not in the Bible and Is not possible to achieve,

We are in fact saved (forgiven and given life) when we turn from our wicked ways (Ezekiel 33:19, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Luke 13:1-5).

When a man receives the Holy Spirit, he receives the power to live the Christian life (Romans 8:4).

So, it is possible to achieve. More accurately, to receive (see Romans 5:5).
 

BloodBought 1953

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We need to change the name of this Thread to “Law Law Law”
The Bible clearly states that “ by the Works Of The Law — NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED”....and that
Christ is the END of the Law for Righteousness for ALL that Believe”
And yet they continue to Blather On and On about a System that God abandoned for Salvation a long time ago.....He Found FAULT with it, declared it was “weak and useless” , delared it had “ NO POWER” to SAVE!
Now, I don’t know about all of you Newbies out there , but “ I” wanna get Saved? Are you with me ? Of course you are! So why waste our time obsessing and arguing about something that has no Saving Power ? That “ Sin Activator”, the Law. The Lawyers you see here don’t understand , due to being “ poor students of the Word” that whoever is promoting the Law is promoting Sin also , because the Power Of Sin is the Law.Once again, due to their Biblical Ignorance they don’t even know that God gave the Law so that Sin might actually INCREASE ! I bet their homes are crawling with Sin or else God is mistaken....
“ By GRACE you are Saved”....... go back through their Junk Posts and count the times you see the Word “ GRACE” mentioned . Nary a bit, if any. They don't Trust God's Way —— Grace Alone. They don't understand it , they don’t believe it either.,You wanna know why they don’t Believe it ? The Grace That could Save+them has not been extended to them.....they are at the VERY LEAST , “Fallen From Grace” .It might be the case that they are not even Saved.That will be for God to decide. Don’t you think it strange that the very thing that Saves is not even mentioned ? If they continue to ignore Grace, and spend their time fussing and fretting about a “Law” That Christians are supposedly DEAD to and if they refuse to REST in the Gospel Of Grace Found In 1Cor 15:1-4 .....God will declare them guilty of “ UNBELIEF”....
Don’t follow we’ll- meaning ( maybe) But Blind Guides .....Grace is the Answer we have all been looking for ....
Not that it counts a whit for Salvation , but if you want to see you Performance as it pertains to the Law “ improve”...... quit worrying about it! Knowing you can never go to Hell for Sinning is the only way to stop Sinning . I know it sounds crazy. You have to live it to understand it .....Pray to your Heavenly Father that He get you there....it’s really as simple as just doing what God Commands......REST in the Gospel.....the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing ....Jesus really “ DID “ die for all of your Sins. These Lawyers HAVE to be concerned about the Law all Of the time....they Don’t believe the Gospel.....as stated , it’s that “Jesus Died For Your Sins” thingy.......they don't Trust it. God bless...
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Haha right imagine if these guys really did have any authority who would stand a chance...they Fail there own standards, If the measure you use will be measured to you applies All the best to them, I see you always teach Grace how wonderful to have that measure applied to you


You always have had a good knack for “ cutting to the chase”...... me? I’m way too windy .....Believe it or not , I am actually working on that.....thanks for you support of Paul’s Lost Gospel Of Grace.....have a Merry Christmas —— you and your Genius wife both! Lol....
 
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Ferris Bueller

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He does Teach Repentance, proper Repentance of turning to Jesus, He as I oppose Repenting of sins to be saved as it is not in the Bible and Is not possible to achieve, In My opinion is it is Satans Last Effort to put doubt in someone's mind before they accept the Gospel, I heard a video of someone leading someone to Jesus and they were doing a pretty good job and they said do you want to be saved the person said Yes then they said there is a carrot First you have to repent of your sins, The person looked Confused and demoralized and didn't go any further, it's an impossible trap

Changed Life is Great And Should happen but salvation is not by works so its a different discussion, Truth hurts but if it is not by grace you are still condemned
That's what's wrong with the church. We've brought loads of people into the church who don't want to be different people and be saved from their sins that way. They just want to avoid going to hell. Free Grace theology gives them what their itching ears want to hear. And so we have a church full of hypocrites, claiming Jesus with their mouth but living unconverted in the hypocrisy of their same old unsaved lives. It's ruined the church.
 
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