SinSinSin

[ChristisGod]

If 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 was teaching that you can not live for the Lord and still be saved Paul would be contradicting John who said the person who does not live for him is not born again and not a child of God. I'm surprised you're defending such a position (if you actually are) because Calvinism teaches that the person who does not live for Christ is a fake believer, not a fallen believer who is still protected by the grace of God through faith for the day of salvation.

But anyway. The passage is about rewards, not salvation. The work you will be rewarded for is the successful building and planting of God's household and field, respectively. Your reward in this regard is the people who are saved through you labor in the gospel. They are your reward on the other side. If they don't make it to the other side and are instead burned up in the great judgment, they won't be there to be your reward on the other side. You yourself will be there, but those you labored to bring with you won't be.

I know this is not taught in any Protestant denomination that I know of, but this is a prime example of how we pass down traditions and teachings instead of our leaders having their own spiritual insights into the scriptures. I could say more about that, but that's another lengthy topic. But if you want to go there I will.

So are you denying that saved in 1 Cor 3:15 is salvation ?

 

[ChristisGod]

I think the argument is true faith will, with no exceptions, add works to a person's salvation experience with God. If it doesn't add those works, then that person does not have the faith that saves all by itself apart from works. Do you disagree with that? Remember, John made it clear that ultimately if a person is not changed and working works of righteousness they are a child of the devil and are not born again. Do you agree with that?

Ephesians 2:8-10 good works are a result of salvation, not a means to salvation.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

"sinless perfection" is a misnomer applied to a specific aspect of the true gospel (entire sanctification) in order to create a straw man that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.

I’m sorry to say that I disagree with you @justbyfaith

It is not toppled by that scripture because:

1 John 1:7 KJV
[7] ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This scripture:

1 John 1:8 KJV
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Applies to those who have not confessed their sin and have not been cleansed as per the preceding verse; for:

1 John 1:9 KJV
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

He thinks he has not sinned:

1 John 1:10 KJV
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

To sum it all up:

This is speaking of those unconverted ones who deny they have sin to be confessed and forgiven for. They don’t believe they need a savior. They don’t believe that they have sinned.

Thus they are like this Pharisee:

Luke 18:11-14 KJV
[11] The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [12] I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. [14] I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If someone merely claims to have faith, yet they have no works (James 2:14-18) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not saving faith. John gives a clear distinction between children of God and children of the devil in 1 John 3:7-10. That still does not equate to salvation by works or salvation by sinless perfection. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 John 1:8-10)

I agree. But this is precisely the message that is being labeled a works gospel in this thread. Why?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ephesians 2:8-10 good works are a result of salvation, not a means to salvation.

We all agree on this. So why is this message of works being the result of salvation being rejected as a works gospel?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So are you denying that saved in 1 Cor 3:15 is salvation ?

No. I'm denying that this passage is teaching that believers can live an unconverted, sinful life and they will still be saved on the day of Christ despite how they lived. It has nothing to do with that. It's about not having anything to show for your labor in the field and building of God, and therefore, no reward for that labor. That doesn't have any bearing on your own personal salvation (provided you yourself really are saved). Ineffective labor in the field and building of God only robs you of potential reward for your labor. It does not rob you of your own salvation. There is more to say about that but let's keep it to the basic message for now.

It's a passage about rewards and loss of rewards for your labor in the kingdom of God. It's not about being able to live in sin like an unsaved, unconverted unbeliever and you still being saved when Jesus comes back. It contradicts what Paul himself teaches if it's about being able to live in sin and still be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[ChristisGod]

We all agree on this. So why is this message of works being the result of salvation being rejected as a works gospel?

As long as we are not saying our works are what makes us righteous before God we are fine as its Christs righteousness in us that makes us holy.

 

[ChristisGod]

No. I'm denying that this passage is teaching that believers can live an unconverted, sinful life and they will still be saved on the day of Christ despite how they lived. It has nothing to do with that. It's about not having anything to show for your labor in the field and building of God, and therefore, no reward for that labor. That doesn't have any bearing on your own personal salvation (provided you yourself really are saved). Ineffective labor in the field and building of God only robs you of potential reward for your labor. It does not rob you of your own salvation. There is more to say about that but let's keep it to the basic message for now.

It's a passage about rewards and loss of rewards for your labor in the kingdom of God. It's not about being able to live in sin like an unsaved, unconverted unbeliever and you still being saved when Jesus comes back. It contradicts what Paul himself teaches if it's about being able to live in sin and still be saved when Jesus comes back.

Ok we are on the same page !

 

[Michiah-Imla]

As long as we are not saying our works are what makes us righteous before God we are fine as its Christs righteousness in us that makes us holy.

This sounds correct on the surface. But if you are saying that this is the case regardless of how you behave after being converted, then this is where the error comes in.

Upon belief in Christ, the unrighteous person gets cleansed from his sins and gets imputed the righteousness of Christ to him. But then he is a new creation and must keep this new, born again, creation holy.

Because:

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

 

[ChristisGod]

This sounds correct on the surface. But if you are saying that this is the case regardless of how you behave after being converted, then this is where the error comes in.

Open belief in Christ, the unrighteousness person gets cleansed from his sins and gets imputed the righteousness of Christ to him. But then he is a new creation and must keep this new holy creation holy.

Because:

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Why are you "reading" into my post something I'm not saying or claiming ?

I have gone on record stating and affirming Ephesians 2:8-10.

I have gone on record confirming 1 Corinthians 3:15 that a person can be saved and lose rewards.

You are equivocating loss of rewards with sin in that passage where its not implied.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why are you "reading" into my post something I'm not saying or claiming ?

I have gone on record stating and affirming Ephesians 2:8-10.

I have gone on record confirming 1 Corinthians 3:15 that a person can be saved and lose rewards.

You are equivocating loss of rewards with sin in that passage where its not implied.

hope this helps !!!

You are on record as a defender of Eternal Security (aka Once Saved Always Saved) and I suspected that your post, though sounding correct, was being used in the context of Eternal Security. Used in that context your post is incorrect.

Those who deny Eternal Security

 

[ChristisGod]

You are on record as a defender of Eternal Security (aka Once Saved Always Saved) and I suspected that your post, though sounding correct, was being used in the context of Eternal Security. Used in that context your post is incorrect.

Those who deny Eternal Security

I'm not talking about osas that is your "obsession" . I'm discussing the plain teaching of the text in 1 Cor 3:15.

In fact its your own presuppositions that are causing you to give 1 Cor 3:15 a different meaning than what it clearly states that one can be saved yet lose rewards. Its your own doctrine which prevents you from understanding that truth or refusing to accept its truth in exchange for your own doctrine which stands in contradiction to the passage and to your own man-made beliefs.

hope this helps !!!

 

[BarneyFife]

Disbelief in other Human men or For Acts Against other Human men.

"Liars" is an itty-bitty word.
That's stretching it a little bit, isn't it?
But thanks for your wildly imaginative interpretation.

Are you a sorcerer ?
Why are you Speaking "for me" something I did not say?

I forgot the say-nothing-and-swerve option.
And didn't you do exactly what I said you would do in your previous post?
It's the militant evangelical way. Deny, deny, deny.
Yes, I'm a sorcerer.
Or maybe just a guy that can read a simple word and not rationalize it to pieces to fit my canned theology.

 

[BarneyFife]

Ephesians 2:8-10 good works are a result of salvation, not a means to salvation.

You just said what FB said.

 

[ChristisGod]

You just said what FB said.

Does that make it wrong

 

[BarneyFife]

Does that make it wrong

Okay

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I'm not talking about osas that is your "obsession" . I'm discussing the plain teaching of the text in 1 Cor 3:15.

In fact its your own presuppositions that are causing you to give 1 Cor 3:15 a different meaning than what it clearly states that one can be saved yet lose rewards. Its your own doctrine which prevents you from understanding that truth or refusing to accept its truth in exchange for your own doctrine which stands in contradiction to the passage and to your own man-made beliefs.

hope this helps !!!

Eternal Security has lead you to read something into 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 that’s not there. I already address that post.

The next post I addressed was this:

As long as we are not saying our works are what makes us righteous before God we are fine as its Christs righteousness in us that makes us holy.

The above is not true if you are using it in the context of Eternal Security/Once Saved Always Saved.

Now if you haven’t been following the order the discussion I recommend you go back and follow it so that you don’t respond to the wrong argument.

 

[ChristisGod]

Eternal Security has lead you to read something into 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 that’s not there. I already address that post.

The next post I addressed was this:



The above is not true if you are using it in the context of Eternal Security/Once Saved Always Saved.

Now if you haven’t been following the order the discussion I recommend you go back and follow it so that you don’t respond to wrong argument.

I don’t need to follow you , I’m following the scriptures I quoted .

next.......

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I don’t need to follow you , I’m following the scriptures I quoted .

next.......

I’ve just entered the world of madness with you.

I think I’ll exit now.

Regards!

 

[ChristisGod]

I’ve just entered the world of madness with you.

I think I’ll exit now.

Regards!

If you would stick to scripture instead of mans doctrines you would avoid the madness so that we could discuss the passage and not doctrine .

hope this helps !!!