SinSinSin

[BarneyFife]

No, it's an answer to your hypothetical, what if?

What if someone wanted to leave Jesus?

Does someone?

Much love!

People do it every day. You're dodging the issue. God is freedom-loving. He doesn't bind people in a relationship. There's not a single text in the Bible that says He does that.

 

[marks]

People do it every day. You're dodging the issue. God is freedom-loving. He doesn't bind people in a relationship. There's not a single text in the Bible that says He does that.

I'm not dodging anything.

I've never met a born again believer who renounced God and died again spiritually.

What God has joined together let no man separate. I will never leave you nor forsake you. What He has promised He will do. You will appear with Him in glory. These things are all over the place in Scripture.

Are you sure He doesn't want us forever? Don't you want Him forever?

You want to debate an academic point, what if someone who was born again wanted to be dead again? My reply is that this is a false hypothetical, akin to, what if a fish wanted to be a bird? The fish has no power to change it's nature, and neither do we.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Are you suggesting that the character of God is cruel and tyrannical, M?
The Fire That Consumes - Does Hell Burn Forever?

No, @BarnyFife

@Backlit did.

He thinks God putting unrepentant sinners into the lake of fire for ever and ever is tyrannical.

I say it’s just.

 

[BarneyFife]

Who has abandoned what law?

I hold as closely to the Law of Christ, the Law of Love, the Law of Liberty - all referring to the same thing - as I can.

But I maintain that this law is as high above the OT Covenant Law as the obedience of Christ is above the disobedience of Adam.

It's not just that Christ matched Adam, obedience for disobedience, rather, Jesus' obedience was far beyond simply 'making up for' Adam's disobedience.

In the same way, Jesus doesn't save us to conform us to the vastly lower standard of the OT Law - not that anyone can even keep that Law, you cannot - but He saves us to give us His Own life, so much greater than any keeping of OT Law.

Much love!

Good for you! No kidding.
All I know is that 60 years ago almost no one argued that the ten commandments were marginal obedience or, worse yet, obsolete.

 

[marks]

Good for you! No kidding.
All I know is that 60 years ago almost no one argued that the ten commandments were marginal obedience or, worse yet, obsolete.

Training wheels. That's how I think of the OT Law. Not to mention, God's contract with someone else. Specified in Scripture as not applicable to the redeemed.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

I've never met a born again believer who renounced God and died again spiritually.

I sure have.

Are you sure He doesn't want us forever? Don't you want Him forever?

More straw men? M, these are straw men. How can you not see that? Do you really think that I think Jesus doesn't want us forever? Really? And I wouldn't be here if I didn't want Him forever.

 

[BarneyFife]

Training wheels. That's how I think of the OT Law. Not to mention, God's contract with someone else. Specified in Scripture as not applicable to the redeemed.

Much love!

I guess up until the mid 20th century, nearly all Christians were just unenlightened.

 

[marks]

The grain offerings represent believers brought to the Lord by the priestly ministry of the church (people are like the plants, made from dust and raised up from the soil of the earth).

You don't get to "explain the Law away" like that. Either you are offering the offerings specified or you are not.

So are you?

No. There is no temple, there are no levites performing temple service. So there is nothing connected to the temple aspects of the Law that you keep.

Shall we look at the tithe? Who did you tithe to over the past 3 years? To which Levites did you give to?

Which Levites shared in your feasting?

Did you bring your offering to the temple, to there feast with the LORD?

I suggest the further we examine this, the more we will find that you don't actually keep the Law of Moses, that you routinely violate it and think nothing of it.

Have you shown your skin sores to the priest? Offered the required offerings for your firstborn? Shown the priests the mold on your wall? Put out the bread of the presence?

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Who did you tithe to over the past 3 years?

For me, it was the Pennsylvania Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

 

[marks]

I sure have.
More straw men? M, these are straw men. How can you not see that? Do you really think that I think Jesus doesn't want us forever? Really? And I wouldn't be here if I didn't want Him forever.

This is not a straw man argument.

The Bible says that we are changed and given a new nature, one that is being conformed by God to be like Jesus. So is it a straw man argument to argue that's exactly what is true? I don't think so.

I think it is a valid argument to assert that God will do what He said He would do. He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ. Did God begin a good work in you? Is this a strawman to claim that He will complete it?

Much love!

 

[marks]

For me, it was the Pennsylvania Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

Do they have Levite lineage? Did you bring your specified offerings to the temple? Some are for those in your area, but some are for the temple in Jerusalem.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

If you ever “ Ceased Sinning” , which you won’t,

You think it impossible that a man might begin to walk consistently according to the Spirit rather than the flesh?

Your doctrine here is an unbiblical heresy, called the inevitability of sin.

All along the “ Game” had been about “ Grace and Faith” and Jesus ....you played a “ Game” that had been all about YOU and how Good you were.....Trying to make yourself acceptable to God By what “ YOU” did for God , as opposed to realizing what HE did for YOU .....You spent a lifetime “ barking up the wrong tree”, and to your shock it turned out to be the difference between Heaven and Hell....

When a man comes to faith in Jesus Christ, he will begin to bear the fruit of goodness (Galatians 5:22-23) in his life; because of what Jesus did for him in dying on the Cross and releasing His Spirit to the early church so that His Spirit might indwell believers from henceforth.

If we walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

When we get to heaven, will we continue to be forgiven without repentance? What kind of heaven would that be? A heaven that has sin in it would be a heaven that has sorrow, and death, and crying, and pain, and tears.

When does everlasting life begin? When we get to heaven or while we are still on the earth?

I contend that it begins at the moment of first faith (John 5:24 (kjv)).

Therefore, our life that we will be living in heaven begins when we first get saved; which means that if we continue in sin from the first moment of faith, we will continue in sin when we get to heaven....which would produce a heaven that is not truly heavenly.

And what is the POINT of all of this? NONE of this stuff GOT you Saved.None Of this stuff KEEPS you Saved....

The point is that you can have a clear conscience; and if you are really true when you say that sinning has all the appeal of putting your hand in a hornet's nest, then there is definitely a point to being able to walk in victory over sin...for the sake of your own peace of mind and so that you don't have to feel like you just put your hand in a hornet's nest.

Also, what saves us and keeps us saved is the blood of Jesus...and the blood of Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) ans cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

to keep ISrael until the time of faith should come,

Even Gentiles were kept under the law until faith should come, if Gentiles be saved through faith (Galatians 3:23).

Teh Law of Moses was for Israel not the gentiles throughout the world in the NT. For any reason. Jer. 31:31-34 shows that it was for Israel alone!

Even Gentiles will be found guilty before God because of the law (Romans 3:19-20).

Hebrews shows the Mosaic Law is obsolete and old!

Hebrews 8:8-10 shows us that the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who are under the New Covenant.

YOu say the law is not binding to those who walk in christ, so does that mean unbelieversd will be held accoutable for every lobster they eat?

Unbelievers who think they will enter into the kingdom through their own moral integrity will be judged by the law; including the ancient food laws of the Old Testament.

Well I eat them all. that abstination was established for meat offered to idols. Not foods banned by the Mosaic Law. The Law of Moses does not exist for the church! All foods are clean for us as Jesus said.

We are to bear the infirmities of the weak brother whose conscience does not allow him to eat things sacrificed to idols; and for the weak brother hose conscience doesn't allow him to eat things prohibited by Old Testament food laws.

But you do what you want.

Blessed is the man who does not condemn himslef in the thing that he allows.

But if the conscience of a weak Jewish brother or sister is emboldened to eat foods contrary to the food laws and they are condemned because they did not eat that thing in faith, then a brother in Christ is condemned becaiuse of your liberty. And in doing this, you have sinned against Christ. Please remmeber that 1 Corinthians 8, Romans 14, and Romans 15:1-2 contain principles that apply not only to the specific things that are spoken of in the isolated passages.

What's your take on sins of omission?

They are covered by the blood if we are found in Christ.

Also, Christ has foreordained that we should walk in certain works (Ephesians 2:10); and sins of omission take place only when it is a specific work that the Lord foreordained for us to walk in, that we fail to walk in.

So, if he has not called me to work in the soup kitchen this upcoming week, it is not a sin of omission that I have failed to do so.

However, it is a different story if that is the leading of the Holy Spirit and I don't follow that leading.

4. the law brings wrath not life!

Nevertheless, it was ordained to life (Romans 7:10).

 

[BarneyFife]

There is no temple, there are no levites performing temple service. So there is nothing connected to the temple aspects of the Law that you keep.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19)

Hebrews 7
23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Some try to dispose of the Ten Commandments on the basis of the “new” commandments of love that Christ introduced. It is certainly true that Jesus laid down two great laws of love as a summary of all the law, but did He give the idea that these were new in point of time? The fact is that He was quoting directly from the Old Testament when He gave those newcommandments. “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might” (Deuteronomy 6:5). “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Leviticus 19:18). Certainly, those penetrating spiritual principles had been forgotten by the legalists of Christ’s day, and they were new to them in relation to their life and practice. But they were not intended by Jesus to take the place of the Ten Commandments.

When the lawyer asked Jesus which was the greatest commandment in the law, he received the answer: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37–40).

Notice that these two love commandments simply summed up “all the law and the prophets.” They all hang upon these two principles of love. Christ was saying that love is the fulfilling of the law just as Paul repeated it later in Romans 13:10. If one loves Christ supremely with heart, soul, and mind, he will obey the first four commandments that have to do with our duty to God. He will not take God’s name in vain, worship other gods, etc. If one loves his neighbor as himself, he will obey the last six commandments that relate to our duty to our fellow men. He will not be able to steal from his neighbor, lie about him, etc. Love will lead to obeying or fulfilling all the law. The law of God is eternal.

 

[BarneyFife]

This is not a straw man argument.

The Bible says that we are changed and given a new nature, one that is being conformed by God to be like Jesus. So is it a straw man argument to argue that's exactly what is true? I don't think so.

I think it is a valid argument to assert that God will do what He said He would do. He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ. Did God begin a good work in you? Is this a strawman to claim that He will complete it?

Much love!

I guess we're going to have a lot of spiritually dead saints in Heaven who hate God.

 

[marks]

He will not be able to steal from his neighbor,

Not only will he not steal from his neighbor, and won't want what his neighbor has, not that only, but he will give to his neighbor, he will think of his neighbor as more important than himself. He won't just pull his neighbor's car from the ditch, but maybe will help shore up the ditch so it's not so much a hazard.

Just the same, there is no temple in Jerusalem, and no orders of Levites to whom we would tithe. And that's the Law.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I guess we're going to have a lot of spiritually dead saints in Heaven who hate God.

I don't think so, myself!

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Do they have Levite lineage? Did you bring your specified offerings to the temple? Some are for those in your area, but some are for the temple in Jerusalem.

Much love!

Mocking me for tithing. Nice.

 

[BarneyFife]

They are covered by the blood if we are found in Christ.

Also, Christ has foreordained that we should walk in certain works (Ephesians 2:10); and sins of omission take place only when it is a specific work that the Lord foreordained for us to walk in, that we fail to walk in.

So, if he has not called me to work in the soup kitchen this upcoming week, it is not a sin of omission that I have failed to do so.

However, it is a different story if that is the leading of the Holy Spirit and I don't follow that leading.

I think we might not have the same understanding of how deeply rooted the sin problem is.

 

[justbyfaith]

Shall we look at the tithe? Who did you tithe to over the past 3 years? To which Levites did you give to?

According to Hebrews 7, the object of our tithing is not any more to the Levitical priesthood, but to the Melchizedeccan priesthood.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible says that we are changed and given a new nature, one that is being conformed by God to be like Jesus.

The Bible teaches that our new nature is already exactly like Jesus (Ephesians 4:24, Colossians 3:10)