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Brakelite

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If you ever “ Ceased Sinning” , which you won’t, what good would it do you on Judgement Day? You might impress some Angel with you capacity for “ self- delusion” ....you might get an “ atta-Boy” for your self- control,or your will- power and maybe even your Stellar Morality!
Unfortunately ,the only thing that will Matter that Day is obtaining that One thing that everybody will be scurrying around trying to find—— JUSTIFICATION ! It will be too late for you, but you will discover before the Day is over that “ By The Works Of The Law , “ NO” Flesh shall be Justified”..
All along the “ Game” had been about “ Grace and Faith” and Jesus ....you played a “ Game” that had been all about YOU and how Good you were.....Trying to make yourself acceptable to God By what “ YOU” did for God , as opposed to realizing what HE did for YOU .....You spent a lifetime “ barking up the wrong tree”, and to your shock it turned out to be the difference between Heaven and Hell....
Have you ever read the dictionary meaning of the term slander?
 

Brakelite

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Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This verse seems to be pretty clear about how long torment lasts in the lake of fire.
I understand there may be another thread or four on this topic somewhere, do without going into detail, I would simply suggest you get a real good accurate truthful handle on the character of God before you start accusing Him if behavior befitting tyrants.
 
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BarneyFife

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I understand there may be another thread or four on this topic somewhere, do without going into detail, I would simply suggest you get a real good accurate truthful handle on the character of God before you start accusing Him if behavior befitting tyrants.
Monsters would be more like it.
 

Michiah-Imla

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I would simply suggest you get a real good accurate truthful handle on the character of God before you start accusing Him if behavior befitting tyrants.

You mean like this small sample:

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Now I would appreciate a less condescending attitude on your part because it doesn’t lend to mature discussion.

Thanks in advance.
 

marks

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Aren't the commands 'do not show favoritism', 'remember the orphan and the widow', 'do not steal', 'treat the alien and the fatherless with justice' (all summarized in 'love your neighbor as yourself') not the works of the law of Moses (I can provide references)? The very ones that John said show that we remain in him and him in us, showing the presence of the Spirit is within us?

1 John 3:23-24
23And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us. 24Whoever keeps His commandments remains in God, and God in him. And by this we know that He remains in us: by the Spirit He has given us.
You are reaching downward when you should be reaching upward.

As if the Law were all that defines Jesus. As if the Law were all that defines Jesus in our lives.

Not to mention . . . you pick and choose from the Law like everyone does. You don't even make a pretense of keeping the full Law I'll wager!

As if conformity to Christ merely meant "keeping Law".

There is so very much more.

Much love!
 

marks

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How is 'looking to what Jesus is doing in you' not having your eyes off of the earthly and onto the heavenly?????
You remain focused on works of Law. That's not the heavenly focus. Law was given for the ungodly. Why do you apply it to yourself?

Much love!
 

BloodBought 1953

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Your straw man pontificating would possibly be highly effective except for one thing. You will not find one example where anyone here suggested that by our "works/obedience/law-keeping etc etc, was a means to being justified. You have constantly accused us of teaching this, told us we aren't Christians, called us liars, blind, tares, legalists, and more, yet not once have we said anything that could be construed to mean that obedience is a means by which we must be justified.
Here is the true gospel...if anyone can fault this, then by all means correct me. But stop calling us lost...heretics etc without any evidence.

Inherent in the Ten Commandments is the gospel. The first commandment has been edited by most but if we read the entire passage of scripture, we can readily see that God is not commanding us to do the impossible. The Ten Commandments begin:
Exodus 20:2 ” I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.”

In this small portion of the scripture is found the key to understanding our relationship to God’s laws, and how to find the power to obey them. Here is the gospel.
You may be thinking, “Hey, that first part isn’t a part of the law, because it doesn’t tell us something we must do or not do! Instead, it tells us of something God has done!!!”
Yes, exactly! And that’s the point. The entire Ten Commandments start with something God has done, and not with something we must do. “I am the Lord thy God who has….” God did not give us His law and then say, ” Okay, if you manage to obey, then heaven is yours”, knowing that we would fail. He knows us well, that we are but dust, morally corrupt, and totally incapable in and of ourselves to render any righteousness that meets God’s requirements. That is why He starts His law with what He has done for us, and not what we are to do for Him.
God has delivered us from bondage. The deliverance God refers to is a direct reference to the Passover. To the blood of the Lamb. A deliverance only He has accomplished, all by Himself, and without any assistance from us. The Passover was symbolic of Calvary. The shed blood of the lamb pointed forward to the crucifixion. ( John 1:29; 1 Cor. 5:7)
So when God gave His law, He pointed first back to the Passover, which itself points to the future, the cross. And there you have the gospel embedded within the law, and far from being distinct from one another, the law and gospel compliment one another perfectly.
Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Notice that the part we play in redemption comes after God plays His part. “Come to Me, for I have redeemed thee”. And notice also that Israel’s salvation and redemption and final entrance into Canaan was a process, not a one off act. First, the blood of the lamb brought deliverance from bondage, then came Sinai and the giving of the law, with the power to obey established already on the already accomplished work of God whilst they were yet in bondage.



Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Our obedience doesn’t activate God’s grace, as many charge us with. It is God’s saving grace that activates our law-keeping. The power for all true obedience is present in our realization of what God has already done for us in Christ by virtue of His ‘unearnable’ grace.

We are simply called upon to come alive to and walk in the victory and the freedom from bondage that Christ has won for us.

Without Christ as the center of the law, without Christ not only as the law-giver but also the empowering agent behind the law, the Ten Commandments degenerate into a mere idealistic code of ethics, a kind of religious “wish-list”. The same goes for all those who look at the law as an impossibly attainable goal; they leave Christ out of the equation, even claiming that it is theologically acceptable to believe that Christ’s death annuls the law.
God loves us out of sin, and God loves us into obedience.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Justified by Christ’s death, and sanctified by His life. Delivered from bondage by His blood, empowered to remain free by His Spirit.
And rather than impossible commands, with the love of Jesus motivating and empowering us, the precepts of the Ten Commandments become promises.

Exodus 20:2 ” I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.” See? Not a command at all really, but a promise. "After those days" saith the Lord," I shall put My laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them". Promise. The just shall live by faith. Faith in what? God's promises. And it's that faith in God's promises that bring forth from God His righteousness and obedience. It isn't our doing. It isn't our obedience. It isn't our righteousness. It's all about Christ. the Alpha and Omega. The author AND Finisher of our faith. Here's another promise...

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Here's another promise to the same folk (those walking in the Spirit, and who are fulfilling all the requirements of the law...

1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God never asks us to make promises to Him. All He asks us to do, is to believe and trust in His promises to us. The new covenant is God's one way promise to write His laws on our hearts and minds, and to give us everlasting life as a free gift in Christ. The old covenant was faulty, not because God's promises were faulty, but because the peoples response was faulty, they replied, "everything the Lord has said, we will do". God didn't ask them to make a promise to "do". This is what gave birth to bondage. The covenant and promise of God are one and the same. After the flood God made a covenant with every beast of the earth, and with every fowl, but the beasts and birds could make no promise in return(Genesis 9:9-16) They simply received the favour at God's hand. That is all we can do. Receive. And that is the only reason any of us manage to obey...because God Himself has granted us the power to do so. God gives us all that we could ask or think...even abundantly more than that. We give Him ourselves, which is nothing. He had given us everything. We cannot make salvation a "mutual give and take affair". A transaction whereby we place ourselves as equal partners in our salvation. No. That's not how it works.



Wow...and somebody said that “ I “ was Windy” ....lol....
It’s past BB’s bedtime......I’ll tend to this latest “ Baloney Barrage” later today ..
I always sleep well when I know that I am going to awaken to a day spent “ shooting fish in a barrel”.... actually, just another day here at “ The Board”.....

I forgot to hit the “ reply” button.....this was intended to go out hours ago....
 

BarneyFife

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You mean like this small sample:

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Now I would appreciate a less condescending attitude on your part because it doesn’t lend to mature discussion.

Thanks in advance.
Are you suggesting that the character of God is cruel and tyrannical, M?
The Fire That Consumes - Does Hell Burn Forever? :)
 

marks

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It kinda is when the whole of Christianity has abandoned the law of God.
Who has abandoned what law?

I hold as closely to the Law of Christ, the Law of Love, the Law of Liberty - all referring to the same thing - as I can.

But I maintain that this law is as high above the OT Covenant Law as the obedience of Christ is above the disobedience of Adam.

It's not just that Christ matched Adam, obedience for disobedience, rather, Jesus' obedience was far beyond simply 'making up for' Adam's disobedience.

In the same way, Jesus doesn't save us to conform us to the vastly lower standard of the OT Law - not that anyone can even keep that Law, you cannot - but He saves us to give us His Own life, so much greater than any keeping of OT Law.

Much love!
 
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