So, as one relatively new still, what's with the name calling, insults,pejoratives
- Thread starter Amazed@grace
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I'm one that believes God guides us and informs us when he knows we're ready for the information, the next step.
In this world we'll never have all the answers.Maybe keeping it fresh with new questions is what makes us seekers in the flesh. And that, well practiced, takes us beyond faith into real relationship.
Amen to that!
Consider Jesus:
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
We are limited because we limit ourselves in our subjection to God. God from whom we get all that we get has no limit!
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I'm still not sure what exactly your point is, though.
It sounds to me like you are arguing (debating?), in a very round-about way, 'FOR' differences in "Biblical interpretation". In other words, you are saying that it's ok if Christians see specific Truths of scripture completely differently.
If that is the case, I say, with respect, that you are wrong. Let's just be very clear and to the point instead of writing long, drawn-out, posts about our position.
The entire theme of the Bible supports Biblical Accuracy for the very REASON that if you do NOT understand God's Word, you CAN be lost. Plain and simple. That is the entire POINT of discussing these matters - and it is the position of the enemy to CONSTANTLY strive to mislead and obfuscate matters of Faith.
Why would God say this:
"Be diligent (study God's Word) to present yourself approved to God, a worker (teacher of God's Truths) who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)
Or this:
"... give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things you shall never fall: " (2 Peter 1:10)
What things must we do so as not to fall? Study scripture to learn them inside and out.
Any lax approach to, or casual acceptance of, God's Word makes you susceptible to the enemy's relentless efforts to lead even the most passionate believers astray.
"... be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:Whom resist stedfast in the faith, ..." (1 Peter 5:8-9)
Personally, I can't see how any sincere Christian can make light of these matters.
God bless.
If there is ever any truth communicated by Christian members interactions on any Christian discussion site on the web, is that we shall never all think alike about scripture as it relates to our personal understanding of God and his will for us.
We're redeemed. Not robots.
Ok, maybe that one guy over there in the left corner....
LOL... Am I arguing or debating? Who has the Truth, all of it all of the time, but God alone? I am saying that we are in different places: Some because they are new, very young in the Lord. Some because they have stopped increasing in God. Some perhaps because they took a wrong turn. We don't condemn a person in one of those places. If we are able... we help them. However, if we ourselves are not being led our help will not do what we may think that it will do... as I see it.
Do you always have all of the right answers to every question about God and the things of God? I certainly do not!
Can a person who has never read the Bible, because he is illiterate in his own language be led by the Holy Spirit toward the Light of God? I met one just like that!
Why would God say this:
"Be diligent (study God's Word) to present yourself approved to God, a worker (teacher of God's Truths) who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)[/quote]
Obedience! And for those who are not studying out of obedience to God and are not led by the Holy Spirit in their studies, Solomon was inspired by God to write this:
"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12
I certainly never make light of God and the things of God. I don't understand why you have seemed to suggest that I might be doing that. Remember communication!
Give God the glory!
TheslightestID
Active Member
Some know the truth pretty well, but either way, just because we don't know it all is no reason to sit back and watch what we do know is heresy being taught without intervening.
And the newbs or whatever, is the reason we fight so hard to see to it the truth is taught. They are our concern, and some of the things being taught make Christianity easy, and is very tempting to follow, will end in the innocent up in hell, so it needs questioning, and then some.
Again, that is no excuse to sit idley and watch false teachers butcher the word of God.
We may not be disagreeing so much in ultimate purposes, as perhaps in timing and methodology.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I can't know for certain what, exactly, your agenda, or purposes, may be with this particular debate, but what is certain is that you are unnecessarily complicating matters that are really not that complicated, and NEED NOT BE at all. You are creating excuses, for those who may not know any better, to just blow off their spirit-induced urge to discuss differences in doctrine that they may encounter in conversation. Especially when we often don't get a second chance.
You are trying to make a case that people shouldn't strive to correct or clarify time-LESS Truths, no matter the method. Yes, it's not wise to outright 'attack' somebody, or be cruel, in the process, but since I did nothing of the sort, your intentions are very much in question. The attitude of indifference that you are encouraging is outright dangerous to pass on to those coming up in the Faith.
The following paragraph is from the Introduction to the book of Jude in the KJV. No, it is not canonized scripture, but it is valid to the point of contention and very relevant.
"Fight! Contend! Do battle! When apostasy arises, when false teachers emerge, when the Truth of God is attacked, it is time to fight for the Faith. Only believers who are spiritually "in shape" can answer the summons. At the beginning of his letter Jude focuses on the believers' common salvation, but then feels compelled to challenge them to contend for the Faith. The danger is real. False teachers have crept into the church turning God's grace into unbounded license to do as they please. Jude reminds such men of God's past dealings with unbelieving Israel, disobedient angels, and wicked Sodom and Gomorrah. In the face of such danger Christians should not be caught off guard. The challenge is great, but so is the God who is able to keep them from stumbling."
I pray this is useful.
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I hope that 'my agenda' is always equal to God's agenda for me. As to debate, this is a Bible Study forum rather than a debate forum even though I know that people are not always careful to make that distinction.
I am not creating excuses, but rather saying what I see and believe, which apparently differs somewhat from what you see and believe.
"Time-LESS Truths?" You wrote that but I don't know what you would include in that category and I am sure you don't know what I might include in such a category if I were to try to put one together.
After leaving the Catholic Church more than 50 years ago, I have only attended effectively one other organized church group, which I came out of nearly 35 years ago. I have never regularly attended an organized main stream Protestant Church so it would be difficult for me to even cite what one of them might consider Time-LESS Truths. It is simple to say that Jesus is the Truth, but what people see as the details do vary. We probably all see a glass darkly like Apostle Paul, so some things may be blurred to point that they are incorrectly identified. We can insist on 'my way or the highway' but if we are wrong in any point, does that not make us liars, even if it is unintentional. What is written about liars in the NT?
I have been a Bible student well as one who has been talking to God daily for a great many years. Where has the Holy Spirit led me with that? To where I am today, but the journey is not finished... not yet. I am still growing. Too many Time-LESS Truths held without reservation may stifle the lead of the Holy Spirit making growth difficult and delusion a real possibility. Does this help you understand where I am?
If you really believe what you have is God's Truth then you must do that. Consider that is also a real danger that you are speaking when it is time to be silent. Should not the Holy Spirit be leading us in that, rather than presuming we are always right and that we should always be talking?
"And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:14
We accept that Jesus knew when not to talk? Who is to direct us? Do we not need a Director?
"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" Jerem 10:23
I would say that our Director should be God via the Holy Spirit, no? Do we hear His voice all of the time? Are we His sheep or are we hearing the voices of strangers?
I think we have to also consider those whose purpose isn't sincere debate regarding Exegesis,Apologetics,Soteriology.
I would submit in what I've observed such persons purpose, focus, is to introduce chaos, and aggravate issues under discussion by Christians.
Personal attack against someone, name calling , insults by innuendo, are not the method of debate employed by people who respect those with whom they speak.
Coupled with that, for me, is the evidence such person's are not interested in learning the scriptures when, despite every effort made by others, they insist on pushing their errant "understanding". Even when that has been thoroughly corrected by scripture.
Something we may need to face is the fact that Satan has disciples too. And as a consequence of that forums that advertise themselves as communities dedicated to Christ and the word of God provide an open invitation for those dedicated to the opposer of God and his truth.
Those of us committed to confronting such people are defending the truth of God against people who claim to be defending the word of God while warping it to insist it says what is not truth , what is not there.
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
And very often that wickedness finds its way to Christians gathered in forums.
There is a notable difference in the tone of a Christian defending their understanding to another Christian. Those are not what I am referring to.
Amadeus is a brother who recognizes Satan's pawns may be engaging the saints here. Yet, in his good heart he still tries to reach them with respect, and the word of God in context.
What could any reasonable Christian argue is a fault in that?
If we assume the demeanor and language of our enemy, they win.
I would submit in what I've observed such persons purpose, focus, is to introduce chaos, and aggravate issues under discussion by Christians.
Personal attack against someone, name calling , insults by innuendo, are not the method of debate employed by people who respect those with whom they speak.
Coupled with that, for me, is the evidence such person's are not interested in learning the scriptures when, despite every effort made by others, they insist on pushing their errant "understanding". Even when that has been thoroughly corrected by scripture.
Something we may need to face is the fact that Satan has disciples too. And as a consequence of that forums that advertise themselves as communities dedicated to Christ and the word of God provide an open invitation for those dedicated to the opposer of God and his truth.
Those of us committed to confronting such people are defending the truth of God against people who claim to be defending the word of God while warping it to insist it says what is not truth , what is not there.
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
And very often that wickedness finds its way to Christians gathered in forums.
There is a notable difference in the tone of a Christian defending their understanding to another Christian. Those are not what I am referring to.
Amadeus is a brother who recognizes Satan's pawns may be engaging the saints here. Yet, in his good heart he still tries to reach them with respect, and the word of God in context.
What could any reasonable Christian argue is a fault in that?
If we assume the demeanor and language of our enemy, they win.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Attack the post not the poster.
If I have a question or a conflict with something someone has posted, I question the post.
Personal attacks should be frowned upon.
I've been called ignorant, stupid, uneducated, neive, you name it.
It doesn't add ANYTHING to the discussion at hand.
So I have learned to walk away.
I don't have to retaliate and imitate the one making personal attacks.
Now if the conversation comes back to the subject, fine.
But if personal attacks persist, I have no other recourse than to ignore the abuse.
I don't know and it really doesn't matter what the forums rules are to me.
That's my code of conduct.
I have to live with it and asnwer for it.
Bad behavior should not be rewarded.
Most of the time I don't quote an individual. I just make a blanket statement regarding how I understand or feel about a certain topic.
Unless it is a mutual conversation between us. Very rare though.
But oh how superior I would be if I went around calling everyone an idiot because they didn't accept my word as gospel truth.
Not.
I would lose a great family.
And the people here mean more to me than my desire to be right.
It's called RESPECT.
To whom it may concern,
Hugs
If I have a question or a conflict with something someone has posted, I question the post.
Personal attacks should be frowned upon.
I've been called ignorant, stupid, uneducated, neive, you name it.
It doesn't add ANYTHING to the discussion at hand.
So I have learned to walk away.
I don't have to retaliate and imitate the one making personal attacks.
Now if the conversation comes back to the subject, fine.
But if personal attacks persist, I have no other recourse than to ignore the abuse.
I don't know and it really doesn't matter what the forums rules are to me.
That's my code of conduct.
I have to live with it and asnwer for it.
Bad behavior should not be rewarded.
Most of the time I don't quote an individual. I just make a blanket statement regarding how I understand or feel about a certain topic.
Unless it is a mutual conversation between us. Very rare though.
But oh how superior I would be if I went around calling everyone an idiot because they didn't accept my word as gospel truth.
Not.
I would lose a great family.
And the people here mean more to me than my desire to be right.
It's called RESPECT.
To whom it may concern,
Hugs
This may assist us too.
Intellectually-honest and intellectually-dishonest debate tactics
The tactics employed against you, that you described as name calling, are products of intellectually dishonest debate tactics.
The purpose is to distract you, the person being called names, from the topic itself by making you go feel defensive as pertains to insults levied against your person.
As soon as someone resorts to that tactic it is reasonable to presume that intellectually dishonest person is demonstrating an inadequacy as pertains to the debate subject itself.
It's wise and prudent that you move on from them and choose not to further engage.
If we would all do this we may see that methodology cease. Or, the perpetrator depart because they are not being paid attention to do to continue their behaviors here.
This is helpful too I think.
This refers to a debate fallacy:
Assailment by Entailment.
"Most generally, assailment-by-entailment is a fallacy of insufficient evidence. In this respect, it is similar to many other informal fallacies. What makes assailment-by-entailment interesting, however, is that it conflates logical entailment with belief attribution."
Source: https://philarchive.org/archive/GARGOM-5
"Assailment-by-entailment is a form of lying and it is no joke. It is bearing false witness—especially when used as a tactic to harm someone's reputation or career. "
A New Name for an Old Fallacy: “Assailment-by-Entailment”
Paul Christensen
Well-Known Member
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People who do that don't know what spirit they are of. It is certainly not the Holy Spirit, because the characteristics of a Spirit-filled person is that they express love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness and patience.
One great way of finding out what a barrel is full of. Give it a kick. If acid pours out, that is what the barrel is full of. But if honey pours out then what is in that barrel is revealed.
Those who have ears to hear, let them hear.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think what gets me the most is when what you posted gets deliberately twisted.
And you know when their not interested in the subject, when the response comes faster than they are able to read your post.
Honestly, I think a lot of people are lonely and maybe this is the only way they have been brought up to communicate.
Sometimes it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.. like civility.
Now, I quoted you, and yet you see, I am not critisising what you wrote personally.
I am still making an open ended blanket statement which is directed at no one in particular.
The other problem I have expressing myself is using the word "you"
I use the word "you" in general, not individual unless it's a personal conversation.
And a lot of people mistake my "you" to mean them personally.
I'm working on that..
Hugs
I think direct intentional twisting if our words, especially when it becomes a constant thing, is evidence of trolling. The focus is on personal attack not reasonable respectful discussion.
I can't help but go think that is evidence of what you suggest, lonliness. Perhaps even a desperate need for attention so that they are able to vent anonymously what they cannot say aloud in personal encounters in their off-line life.
It's sad really however, I don't think we deserve to be treated like that.
This is why I agree it is wise to move on from them and ignore the baiting of our attentions using such tactics.
Unless I am speaking directly to someone I work on getting into the habit of clarifying the intention when I use the seemingly personal "you" by adding, 'the impersonal you'.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
The natural response is to retaliate.
How dare you!
We're not called to walk in the natural.
And even though it is uncomfortable, it is good practice to overcome the natural desire to retaliate.
Some thorns are just pointier than others.
How dare you!
We're not called to walk in the natural.
And even though it is uncomfortable, it is good practice to overcome the natural desire to retaliate.
Some thorns are just pointier than others.
Since you have "people" and "you" in the same sentence, eliminate "you" and stick with "people". Problem solved.
theQuestioneer
Active Member
Calling me an insult doesn't matter, but a 'Christian' twisting what God's Word says, then placing a thick film of church dogma on in revolts me.
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