So that he doesn’t reach forth his hand and also eat of the Tree of Life and Live forever.

[Eternally Grateful]

I get this is your perspective “eternal separation from God.”
To me I don’t see this in that man was cast out so that man would not and could not reach out his hand and take to eat of the tree of Life and live in forever or eternal separation from God. You can’t eat of Christ and live in eternal separation from God. but we say torment is eternal. I’m so confused because it is whatever to make a theology work. I get “we are eternal beings” apart from Christ. That being the explanation. To me …none of that makes sense but is full of holes if I’m being honest.

When you eat of Christ you will live forever. You will never die. So there will be no eternal separation from God to those who in faith receive the gospel. chew on it, and accept it and cry out for salvation

Those who wil be eternally separated are those who do NOT eat of the tree. do not chew on the gospel and receive Christ. Who say no to him. hence saying no to God.

I get you said you don’t believe that is why God didn’t want man to eat of the tree of life. But you don’t know why. You can only speculate as much as I can speculate. To me it fits more with God desires Mercy “don’t let him eat” that God cast man out, desiring none perish but all come to Life…to remove man from eating and remaining in an eternal separation from God. And with Christ being a tree that gives (bears forth)Life and bears the fruit of the Tree of Life: long-suffering, patience, Hope, joy, peace, brotherly-kindness and Charity …this Tree of Lifes’ purpose was told as “I come not to destroy but to save.” But men say no it is inconceivable that God banished man from the way to the tree of LIFE so man would not and could not live and continue on, in a never-ending separation from God. Why is that so inconceivable? that God would desire not eternal torment (without end) but instead Mercy(without end)? That is the real question?

I would say, Focus on the cross.

If you or I reject the justification and redemption which was paid for by Christ on the cross and payment for our eternal debt against God because of sin. The tree of life in the garden can not do anything for us no matter what we believe about it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What I meant was God told adam do not eat. And they ate. When they ate the died.

They were not more enlightened. if anything, they became darkened. their eyes were not open. they were closed. Adam and eve saw their nakedness. because everything about them was laid out before God. and they were no longer perfect. This made them ashamed of who they were..

The animal dieing to cover their nakedness (sin) is a tyoe of Christ. I agree. If our spiritual nakedness is not covered by God (his blood) we are exposed also. and on judgment day, we will reap the reward of our sin. Judgment

Agree “if anything they became darkened. Their eyes were not open. They were closed.” You said it better than I could. To me there is an angst in wait their eyes were open to their nakedness. Isn’t that to open the eyes of the blind? But their eyes were also shut to what is unseen which is the Father. I can relate in seeing or made aware of what is seen (visible)but made blind to what is unseen (invisible). Even that to me has an angst to it. “Invisible” …what God is invisible? Sounds like a ghost from a movie but I don’t think that is the significance of “invisible” but instead going unnoticed like love, peace, joy, hope …it being really hard to find or see love, peace, joy, hope, mercy, forgiveness sometimes. Darkened to those things right there waiting to be seen or made visible. Getting caught up in what is seen the affliction and losing sight of Him who helps out of the affliction. how I’ve heard people say I could not see His being there with me in my trial and lowest suffering point, but looking back now He was there helping the whole time I just lost sight of Him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When you eat of Christ you will live forever. You will never die.

Those who wil be eternally separated are those who do NOT eat of the tree. do not chew on the gospel and receive Christ. Who say no to him. hence saying no to God.

That is the holes I mentioned. If they do not eat of the tree of Life …then Genesis shows… (imo) clearly it shows…remove them so they do not also take of the tree of Life and remain. clearly do not let them eat also and remain captive and imprisoned in a sustained life of disobedience. Or that is what it means to me. From the beginning, His desire for Mercy. I get you don’t agree. And that is ok. But that is what I see. Even to the end of Revelation where God allows through the obedience of Christ a call to reach out to take and eat. “I am the way, the Life and the truth” From the beginning to the end, or from the end to the beginning it being very profound that you must be made Anew to partake of the tree of Life that is the source of Life. Where apart from Him there is no Life. To me that means God never wanted what is Old and passing away for man to be kept captive and imprisoned in forever. Personally I don’t think that is His Divine Nature. Even if we want to make it so. I think you mentioned earlier God is Jealous. Jealous after His Divine Nature which we have a tendency to totally mutilate by our own nature; which even in this He declares His Mercy on our doing it out of ignorance.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That is the holes I mentioned. If they do not eat of the tree of Life …then Genesis shows… (imo) clearly it shows…remove them so they do not also take of the tree of Life and remain. clearly do not let them eat also and remain captive and imprisoned in a sustained life of disobedience. Or that is what it means to me. From the beginning, His desire for Mercy. I get you don’t agree. And that is ok. But that is what I see. Even to the end of Revelation where God allows through the obedience of Christ a call to reach out to take and eat. “I am the way, the Life and the truth” From the beginning to the end, or from the end to the beginning it being very profound that you must be made Anew to partake of the tree of Life that is the source of Life. Where apart from Him there is no Life. To me that means God never wanted what is Old and passing away for man to be kept captive and imprisoned in forever. Personally I don’t think that is His Divine Nature. Even if we want to make it so. I think you mentioned earlier God is Jealous. Jealous after His Divine Nature which we have a tendency to totally mutilate by our own nature; which even in this He declares His Mercy on our doing it out of ignorance.

To me this says that every false truth or false lie will not continue on forever but apart from Life…it ends. The devil. Ends. The ministers of falsehood and the devil. Ends. Lies. End. Corruption. Ends. Bondage. Ends. Death. Ends. It doesn’t continue having not the source of Life in it. The hole is saying it has the power apart from Christ to be eternally forever (never ending) sustained when to me the point of the word is saying even in “leave these men alone. For if it is a work of men it will come to nothing. (Diminish, fade away, pass away, decreased). But if this be a Work of God then nothing can overthrow it.” Fading away. Passing away. Come to nothing. End. Only One holds “without end”.
That is not what we claim of hell but instead that all falsehood continues (never ends) and is sustained eternal apart from Life and God. Is that what the Word says? Even in “it will fail”. Yet hell does not fail —which the warning is it does fail—but instead hell’s victory is the devil and his ministers rob your family members from you, and the devil forever holds its prisoners of your family members who didn’t eat of the tree of Life and they are tormented forever without end. What a doctrine!! What is there to rejoice and hope in that?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Beautiful read @VictoryinJesus and insight came.

You wanna see something else which is also beautiful?

Revelation 21 and 22 written by John the beloved is a direct sequencing of restoring what was lost in the beginning of Genesis, which Moses had written.

And if you look at Revelation 20; and 22 are completely new scope.

I believe people are separated, because of non-faith, outside of the kingdom just says it says in that letter, and the gates never close, and those who are inside of the kingdom are those who had faith.

I wonder if there’s work for us to do inside of the kingdom who are believers who wanna help those outside in darkness?

It gives us something to do at least for God out of love for him, and others still even in the afterlife.

That’s why I look at the lake of fire is something of purpose that can be able to humble a person in learning about Christ by going through the fire that is probably protruding from God because God is a consuming fire and he’s able to burn away the darkness and keep was left. That may be good.

That’s good at least being the willingness to come forward and be honest to find the truth in that fire, by dying to oneself. And perhaps they’re able to go into the kingdom I really really don’t know but it’s something I hope.

Despite all the people who say no, no no.

Thank you for sharing earlier about Revelation speaking of restoration of what was loss. Recommend Psalm 37. The whole of it was encouraging. Especially “Trust in the Lord and cultivate Faithfulness.”
It reminds me of where Paul said he was Not as Lord over their Faith but a helper in their Faith. To “cultivate” faithfulness is a helpful word. Not as Lord over Faithfulness but as a helper of cultivating faith. You helped me. I love your Hope. Your Hope is encouraging because rarely have I heard what you shared as being your Hope. I share in your Hope. If you are anything like me it sometimes gets in your head to doubt that Hope, maybe being persuaded otherwise. I just want you to know I don’t think you are crazy or hoping in something that should be doubted but instead take hold of that hope and don’t let anyone or anything persuade you otherwise. You have reminded me also. To keep hope.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Agree “if anything they became darkened. Their eyes were not open. They were closed.” You said it better than I could. To me there is an angst in wait their eyes were open to their nakedness. Isn’t that to open the eyes of the blind? But their eyes were also shut to what is unseen which is the Father. I can relate in seeing or made aware of what is seen (visible)but made blind to what is unseen (invisible). Even that to me has an angst to it. “Invisible” …what God is invisible? Sounds like a ghost from a movie but I don’t think that is the significance of “invisible” but instead going unnoticed like love, peace, joy, hope …it being really hard to find or see love, peace, joy, hope, mercy, forgiveness sometimes. Darkened to those things right there waiting to be seen or made visible. Getting caught up in what is seen the affliction and losing sight of Him who helps out of the affliction. how I’ve heard people say I could not see His being there with me in my trial and lowest suffering point, but looking back now He was there helping the whole time I just lost sight of Him.

I like how Paul said we see dimly how now I see myself in part. But when I am face to face with him, I will know who I am.. so its amazing we do not even see ourselves really as who we are.

I agree though, God is seen, He is seen in nature, in creation, it all facets of life.. I keep hearing people say it takes more faith to be an athiest than it does not be a christian. I am leaning that way myself..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is the holes I mentioned. If they do not eat of the tree of Life …then Genesis shows… (imo) clearly it shows…remove them so they do not also take of the tree of Life and remain. clearly do not let them eat also and remain captive and imprisoned in a sustained life of disobedience. Or that is what it means to me.

I am confused by this.. Jesus told us he was sent to the whole world. Not just to certain people. that whoever believes will never perish.. If God withholds the ability for people to see, or to eat. then we would say God is not a just God.. Thats the problem with Calvinistic thinking, saying God only died for some. Using your example. It is like saying God let some people back into the garden so they could eat the tree of life. While others he kept out so they could not eat of the tree.. Is that fair? IS that righteous? Would we say that is a loving God?

I would say no

From the beginning, His desire for Mercy. I get you don’t agree.

Why do you say I do not agree? From the beginning it was mercy.. Mercy killed an animal, Skinned it and covered the nakedness of Adam and Eve.

Mercy is not free. it comes with a price.. in our case. the price is the cross. Apart from the cross. Gods justice will prevail

And that is ok. But that is what I see. Even to the end of Revelation where God allows through the obedience of Christ a call to reach out to take and eat. “I am the way, the Life and the truth” From the beginning to the end, or from the end to the beginning it being very profound that you must be made Anew to partake of the tree of Life that is the source of Life. Where apart from Him there is no Life. To me that means God never wanted what is Old and passing away for man to be kept captive and imprisoned in forever. Personally I don’t think that is His Divine Nature. Even if we want to make it so. I think you mentioned earlier God is Jealous. Jealous after His Divine Nature which we have a tendency to totally mutilate by our own nature; which even in this He declares His Mercy on our doing it out of ignorance.

ok. but we have to know. how does God show that grace, why can he restore us to a relationship to him. What did he do to achieve this mercy God is showing to you and everyone..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I like how Paul said we see dimly how now I see myself in part. But when I am face to face with him, I will know who I am.. so its amazing we do not even see ourselves really as who we are.

Personally to me face to face could be seeing face to face a brother once turned away from God, returned unto relationship, restored…two standing face to face in restoration of the bond of love; experiencing forgiveness and then staring in the face of another experiencing the same likeminded forgiveness helps I think with then “I will know who I am” … hello, I see you, Christ in you… hello there, you are my brother!

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing earlier about Revelation speaking of restoration of what was loss. Recommend Psalm 37. The whole of it was encouraging. Especially “Trust in the Lord and cultivate Faithfulness.”
It reminds me of where Paul said he was Not as Lord over their Faith but a helper in their Faith. To “cultivate” faithfulness is a helpful word. Not as Lord over Faithfulness but as a helper of cultivating faith. You helped me. I love your Hope. Your Hope is encouraging because rarely have I heard what you shared as being your Hope. I share in your Hope. If you are anything like me it sometimes gets in your head to doubt that Hope, maybe being persuaded otherwise. I just want you to know I don’t think you are crazy or hoping in something that should be doubted but instead take hold of that hope and don’t let anyone or anything persuade you otherwise. You have reminded me also. To keep hope.

Thank you for your time and post in which you have said here. Having been here for awhile, all the important things that get talked about alot tend to be the commonality among people. Because if history and experience from, Grandma, Grandpa, Mom, Dad, someone whom adopted another human. Traditions are always handed down, but Jesus always taught against going with man made traditions.

Though at one them I believed hell was scary and real (it was real i believe, i just dont believe just we dont go there today) and that i was heading for it; the “fire that was supposed to be there” must been from God who start to really change me though it took 26 years to finally die to myself and put forth effort to know the Lord Jesus.

I was very judgmental and condmening… even infront of others who i would chide, or look as lesser even deem lesser than myself.

The above barely exists as I die to it in Christ allowing him to supress thoughts, but overtime God sent me someone to help me, help me understand not just the bible but what the bible does say.

And it forces a person to really consider the man-made traditions one may have been taught and to to question those things would be like disrepecting them or something.

Its freedom from these connections where one puts forth God loving in first; which bring along wisdom how to handle situations that come along, even asking God to help.

God is good.

And if he is a giver of Good Gifts; such as the spiritual.


Perhaps there is loss for those outside the kingdom but God gave them a spiritual body to live in and a place to freely stay.

With Gates open! Of all things!

And the lake of fire, something good only partaking for however long it last for that person to recieve the truth of Christ.

And maybe we can help God out there, maybe visit here… family or something idk… but i do know God has something good in store for those who love him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am confused by this.. Jesus told us he was sent to the whole world. Not just to certain people. that whoever believes will never perish.. If God withholds the ability for people to see, or to eat. then we would say God is not a just God.. Thats the problem with Calvinistic thinking, saying God only died for some. Using your example. It is like saying God let some people back into the garden so they could eat the tree of life. While others he kept out so they could not eat of the tree.. Is that fair? IS that righteous? Would we say that is a loving God?

You missed the point I’m trying to share. You say it is exclusive. Or to some. Instead I’m suggesting eating of the tree of Life makes one run with the Hope that hell will not rob Life, hell will not rob families of loved ones, hell and torment will not defeat countless prayers …hell doesn’t have the victory of overcoming Life and restoration. (Imo) we don’t go long-faced as those who have no hope but get up out of that grave and proclaim hell will not rob what has been entrusted to Him. That includes all the prayers for those we fold into long-faced hopelessness of hell gains them to be tormented forever eternally. Hell robs all the Hope, joy, long-suffering and patience …taking those we say God just doesn’t will for us to have, restoration of what our prayers unto Him ask of Him. Do you get what I’m saying? All the Christian’s mourning their family members being tormented for ever in an enteral suffering saying “I hope they choose right” if they don’t hell just became the Victor …when we should have Hope with arms lifted high, without doubting, in rejoicing “the Prayers of His Children Will NOT go unanswered”. …Hell nor the devil …being able to rob the fruit of what has been planted (Christ)!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You missed the point I’m trying to share. You say it is exclusive. Or to some. Instead I’m suggesting eating of the tree of Life makes one run with the Hope that hell will not rob Life, hell will not rob families of loved ones, hell and torment will not defeat countless prayers …hell doesn’t have the victory of overcoming Life and restoration. (Imo) we don’t go long-faced as those who have no hope but get up out of that grave and proclaim hell will not rob what has been entrusted to Him. That includes all the prayers for those we fold into long-faced hopelessness of hell gains them to be tormented forever eternally. Hell robs all the Hope, joy, long-suffering and patience …taking those we say God just doesn’t will for us to have, restoration of what our prayers unto Him ask of Him. Do you get what I’m saying? All the Christian’s mourning their family members being tormented for ever in an enteral suffering saying “I hope they choose right” if they don’t hell just became the Victor …when we should have Hope with arms lifted high, without doubting, in rejoicing “the Prayers of His Children Will NOT go unanswered”. …Hell nor the devil …being able to rob the fruit of what has been planted (Christ)!

I knew a lady I think about often. She died of ALS. her grandson shot himself. For the longest time I could not get past that surely she had never stopped praying for her grandson relentlessly. All I am saying is I don’t think (for one minute) those prayers go unheard. I don’t think her Hope will go unrealized by God. Regardless of her grandson, I think God will honor those prayers to be heard. That hell and torment will not be the Victor over her prayers unto God. Or that is my opinion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You missed the point I’m trying to share. You say it is exclusive. Or to some. Instead I’m suggesting eating of the tree of Life makes one run with the Hope that hell will not rob Life, hell will not rob families of loved ones, hell and torment will not defeat countless prayers …hell doesn’t have the victory of overcoming Life and restoration. (Imo) we don’t go long-faced as those who have no hope but get up out of that grave and proclaim hell will not rob what has been entrusted to Him. That includes all the prayers for those we fold into long-faced hopelessness of hell gains them to be tormented forever eternally. Hell robs all the Hope, joy, long-suffering and patience …taking those we say God just doesn’t will for us to have, restoration of what our prayers unto Him ask of Him. Do you get what I’m saying? All the Christian’s mourning their family members being tormented for ever in an enteral suffering saying “I hope they choose right” if they don’t hell just became the Victor …when we should have Hope with arms lifted high, without doubting, in rejoicing “the Prayers of His Children Will NOT go unanswered”. …Hell nor the devil …being able to rob the fruit of what has been planted (Christ)!

Hell is personal. I can’t say because I ate of the tree of life my family will not go to hell. That is not true. They have to eat if the tree themselves.

Jesus came to save you. You must believe. You can’t believe for your family. That is for them to decide

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I knew a lady I think about often. She died of ALS. her grandson shot himself. For the longest time I could not get past that surely she had never stopped praying for her grandson relentlessly. All I am saying is I don’t think (for one minute) those prayers go unheard. I don’t think her Hope will go unrealized by God. Regardless of her grandson, I think God will honor those prayers to be heard. That hell and torment will not be the Victor over her prayers unto God. Or that is my opinion.

If her grandson did not receive Christ he is lost forever

We can not pray our kids to heaven. As sad and aweful as that may sound it’s the truth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Personally to me face to face could be seeing face to face a brother once turned away from God, returned unto relationship, restored…two standing face to face in restoration of the bond of love; experiencing forgiveness and then staring in the face of another experiencing the same likeminded forgiveness helps I think with then “I will know who I am” … hello, I see you, Christ in you… hello there, you are my brother!

We still in all this see dimly. Not like when we see God face to face

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If her grandson did not receive Christ he is lost forever

We can not pray our kids to heaven. As sad and aweful as that may sound it’s the truth

I guess the reason he made such an impact on me is because she had in him in church every Sunday. He came with her, and sat in the pew. He was the same age as our daughters. I was in shock to hear of what happened seeing him there in church with his grandma often. I don’t know what choice he made but I felt sadness that he never reached starting a family or leaving being a youth to grow or learn through the stages of life.

You can think what you want but I don’t think her prayers will go unanswered. There was a young man that came into our family. He caused me so much hurt and fear which is one of the main reasons I turned to God for help. Being completely lost and drowning. He was very verbal about his thoughts on God. At the time I would say I thought I had faith and belief and a relationship with God. And he was the disbeliever. he taught me though (without even knowing it) that my relationship with God was lip service and not a real relationship. He helped it (through being blind) for a real relationship. Not by his words did he teach me but the trouble that come in putting me on my knees where so much happened that God became no longer fairy tales but THE Judge of all things whom I could come before and speak in a time of trouble. Not to condemn this boy but realizing I didn’t have to pled my case or produce evidence to God but that He sees all and knows the whys that I don’t understand. To be able to say before this Judge you are fair and just and true. It did not go the way I wanted it to. Not at all. But I know God heard and felt every pain and suffering of everyone involved. his seeing it from a perspective that I couldn’t. Out of that conflict, trouble and distress to me both worked together for good: that which opposed and that which was taught (to Learn of Him) through the opposing. To me I Love “they were made blind for your sakes” they were blinded not without purpose but that you may learn of Christ. Do we then not recognize the gift? For us? Do we forgo thanksgiving for the blind that we may see? Concerning the Jews which were blinded…He warns to not be high-minded in their being made blind, cut off.. or you may be blinded. Or that is what I read. For me family members burning in hell in a forever torment is the devil winning to tear apart limb by limb the place where God put us. Their being blind that we might see: Faith, hope, mercy, grace, patience. forgiveness and long suffering.

One word about the convention I went to. I stayed in a house with at least twenty women. The pastors wife, all the mature ladies who talked about this choice and how all had made the choice to believe in Christ. But there was three there that had not “made the choice”. When these three were not around the church women rolled their eyes over them and talked about these women. “Oh if they could just be like us”. Then those three sat alone most of the time. I hadn’t noticed it until late one night those three sat outside and voiced how they don’t feel like they belonged. How there was a click in the house and when they came into the house everyone decided to go upstairs. One of the women was a 35 year old who voiced she has thought of suicide but has three children who need her. I could see both sides. The women from the church pointing out they didn’t try to be apart off…and the others who didn’t feel an apart of but clearly said “I’m jealous to be apart of” …something, give me something. The problem though (to me at least) is the church women rolling their eyes thought they had no flaw in choosing Christ. And the ones tattooed, smoking and on the outside “of making the choice” “verbally” were beneath them in their not trying harder to belong. It made me think so much of the passage on giving the best seat to those who come in and you admire, but giving the lowest seat to those not clothed (in what we say Christ looks like, does and appears like outwardly: religion) clothed the same as you. To me those we shout are going to hell being blind…they are blind so that the power of God be seen.

We can say they haven’t made the choice in Christ. What choice? To be as Christ? Sorry but often out of making the choice of believing Christ …comes forth a superiority, a hind-mindedness against those who do not believe. When we forget how Christ was toward us when we were blind and unbelieving. To me it is a bunch of mouth talk against the very things Christ teaches. Of course that is only my opinion. I am not condemning the ladies at the beach house (we all have flaws)…but instead saying their confession of belief in Christ didn’t show for me towards the three sitting in the outside desperately saying we are broken and about to give up, needing purpose or a family to belong to. They even voiced “I thought this is supposed to be a family I can belong to? But I don’t see it as a family?” But instead more of the same as From high school and from the world …clicks of those who have the best clothes (Christ) belong and those who are not dressed in the best clothing (Christ)never will. But “making the choice” a stamp of approval to others around us to say “yea they choose right!!” They choose to do good and not evil! We might be deceived in who ends up in the hell we keep pushing as a forever burning torment for making the wrong choice. Especially under dressed in (the best)Christ and yet high minded by our choice of having put on (the best)clothing. If we are not careful we might find ourselves clothed in religion while pushing Christ out.

 

[quietthinker]

I guess the reason he made such an impact on me is because she had in him in church every Sunday. He came with her, and sat in the pew. He was the same age as our daughters. I was in shock to hear of what happened seeing him there in church with his grandma often. I don’t know what choice he made but I felt sadness that he never reached starting a family or leaving being a youth to grow or learn through the stages of life.

You can think what you want but I don’t think her prayers will go unanswered. There was a young man that came into our family. He caused me so much hurt and fear which is one of the main reasons I turned to God for help. Being completely lost and drowning. He was very verbal about his thoughts on God. At the time I would say I thought I had faith and belief and a relationship with God. And he was the disbeliever. he taught me though (without even knowing it) that my relationship with God was lip service and not a real relationship. He helped it (through being blind) for a real relationship. Not by his words did he teach me but the trouble that come in putting me on my knees where so much happened that God became no longer fairy tales but THE Judge of all things whom I could come before and speak in a time of trouble. Not to condemn this boy but realizing I didn’t have to pled my case or produce evidence to God but that He sees all and knows the whys that I don’t understand. To be able to say before this Judge you are fair and just and true. It did not go the way I wanted it to. Not at all. But I know God heard and felt every pain and suffering of everyone involved. his seeing it from a perspective that I couldn’t. Out of that conflict, trouble and distress to me both worked together for good: that which opposed and that which was taught (to Learn of Him) through the opposing. To me I Love “they were made blind for your sakes” they were blinded not without purpose but that you may learn of Christ. Do we then not recognize the gift? For us? Do we forgo thanksgiving for the blind that we may see? Concerning the Jews which were blinded…He warns to not be high-minded in their being made blind, cut off.. or you may be blinded. Or that is what I read. For me family members burning in hell in a forever torment is the devil winning to tear apart limb by limb the place where God put us. Their being blind that we might see: Faith, hope, mercy, grace, patience. forgiveness and long suffering.

One word about the convention I went to. I stayed in a house with at least twenty women. The pastors wife, all the mature ladies who talked about this choice and how all had made the choice to believe in Christ. But there was three there that had not “made the choice”. When these three were not around the church women rolled their eyes over them and talked about these women. “Oh if they could just be like us”. Then those three sat alone most of the time. I hadn’t noticed it until late one night those three sat outside and voiced how they don’t feel like they belonged. How there was a click in the house and when they came into the house everyone decided to go upstairs. One of the women was a 35 year old who voiced she has thought of suicide but has three children who need her. I could see both sides. The women from the church pointing out they didn’t try to be apart off…and the others who didn’t feel an apart of but clearly said “I’m jealous to be apart of” …something, give me something. The problem though (to me at least) is the church women rolling their eyes thought they had no flaw in choosing Christ. And the ones tattooed, smoking and on the outside “of making the choice” “verbally” were beneath them in their not trying harder to belong. It made me think so much of the passage on giving the best seat to those who come in and you admire, but giving the lowest seat to those not clothed (in what we say Christ looks like, does and appears like outwardly: religion) clothed the same as you. To me those we shout are going to hell being blind…they are blind so that the power of God be seen.

We can say they haven’t made the choice in Christ. What choice? To be as Christ? Sorry but often out of making the choice of believing Christ …comes forth a superiority, a hind-mindedness against those who do not believe. When we forget how Christ was toward us when we were blind and unbelieving. To me it is a bunch of mouth talk against the very things Christ teaches. Of course that is only my opinion. I am not condemning the ladies at the beach house (we all have flaws)…but instead saying their confession of belief in Christ didn’t show for me towards the three sitting in the outside desperately saying we are broken and about to give up, needing purpose or a family to belong to. They even voiced “I thought this is supposed to be a family I can belong to? But I don’t see it as a family?” But instead more of the same as From high school and from the world …clicks of those who have the best clothes (Christ) belong and those who are not dressed in the best clothing (Christ)never will. But “making the choice” a stamp of approval to others around us to say “yea they choose right!!” They choose to do good and not evil! We might be deceived in who ends up in the hell we keep pushing as a forever burning torment for making the wrong choice. Especially under dressed in (the best)Christ and yet high minded by our choice of having put on (the best)clothing. If we are not careful we might find ourselves clothed in religion while pushing Christ out.

Keep those spoons clicking ViJ

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Keep those spoons clicking ViJ

I’m not sure what spoons clicking means. Coming from you I think it is encouragement?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I guess the reason he made such an impact on me is because she had in him in church every Sunday. He came with her, and sat in the pew. He was the same age as our daughters. I was in shock to hear of what happened seeing him there in church with his grandma often. I don’t know what choice he made but I felt sadness that he never reached starting a family or leaving being a youth to grow or learn through the stages of life.

You can think what you want but I don’t think her prayers will go unanswered. There was a young man that came into our family. He caused me so much hurt and fear which is one of the main reasons I turned to God for help. Being completely lost and drowning. He was very verbal about his thoughts on God. At the time I would say I thought I had faith and belief and a relationship with God. And he was the disbeliever. he taught me though (without even knowing it) that my relationship with God was lip service and not a real relationship. He helped it (through being blind) for a real relationship. Not by his words did he teach me but the trouble that come in putting me on my knees where so much happened that God became no longer fairy tales but THE Judge of all things whom I could come before and speak in a time of trouble. Not to condemn this boy but realizing I didn’t have to pled my case or produce evidence to God but that He sees all and knows the whys that I don’t understand. To be able to say before this Judge you are fair and just and true. It did not go the way I wanted it to. Not at all. But I know God heard and felt every pain and suffering of everyone involved. his seeing it from a perspective that I couldn’t. Out of that conflict, trouble and distress to me both worked together for good: that which opposed and that which was taught (to Learn of Him) through the opposing. To me I Love “they were made blind for your sakes” they were blinded not without purpose but that you may learn of Christ. Do we then not recognize the gift? For us? Do we forgo thanksgiving for the blind that we may see? Concerning the Jews which were blinded…He warns to not be high-minded in their being made blind, cut off.. or you may be blinded. Or that is what I read. For me family members burning in hell in a forever torment is the devil winning to tear apart limb by limb the place where God put us. Their being blind that we might see: Faith, hope, mercy, grace, patience. forgiveness and long suffering.

One word about the convention I went to. I stayed in a house with at least twenty women. The pastors wife, all the mature ladies who talked about this choice and how all had made the choice to believe in Christ. But there was three there that had not “made the choice”. When these three were not around the church women rolled their eyes over them and talked about these women. “Oh if they could just be like us”. Then those three sat alone most of the time. I hadn’t noticed it until late one night those three sat outside and voiced how they don’t feel like they belonged. How there was a click in the house and when they came into the house everyone decided to go upstairs. One of the women was a 35 year old who voiced she has thought of suicide but has three children who need her. I could see both sides. The women from the church pointing out they didn’t try to be apart off…and the others who didn’t feel an apart of but clearly said “I’m jealous to be apart of” …something, give me something. The problem though (to me at least) is the church women rolling their eyes thought they had no flaw in choosing Christ. And the ones tattooed, smoking and on the outside “of making the choice” “verbally” were beneath them in their not trying harder to belong. It made me think so much of the passage on giving the best seat to those who come in and you admire, but giving the lowest seat to those not clothed (in what we say Christ looks like, does and appears like outwardly: religion) clothed the same as you. To me those we shout are going to hell being blind…they are blind so that the power of God be seen.

But non of those things make a person saved. Non of those things make a person a child of God. If they have not received Christ's offer of salvation to them, they are still dead in their sin. We may not like it. I don;t like it. But what I like or do not like does not matter when it comes to the judgment of God, We can not pray our loved ones to heaven. If they have not received Christ themselves before they leave this earth. they are lost forever.

We can say they haven’t made the choice in Christ. What choice? To be as Christ? Sorry but often out of making the choice of believing Christ …comes forth a superiority, a hind-mindedness against those who do not believe.

What choice?

To be like Christ? That's impossible apart from being born again and having the Holy Spirit given to you. That is not the gospel. The gospel is Christ came to free us from the condemnation we deserve..

Jesus told us what Choice in John 3. we must be born again. how?

John 3:
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is the choice.. Do They believe that Jesus, like the serpent, was hung on a tree for your sins, So you could be set free. Made alive in him, Adopted as his child. and be saved.

or will they continue in unbelief and continue to be condemned?

When we forget how Christ was toward us when we were blind and unbelieving. To me it is a bunch of mouth talk against the very things Christ teaches. Of course that is only my opinion. I am not condemning the ladies at the beach house (we all have flaws)…but instead saying their confession of belief in Christ didn’t show for me towards the three sitting in the outside desperately saying we are broken and about to give up, needing purpose or a family to belong to. They even voiced “I thought this is supposed to be a family I can belong to? But I don’t see it as a family?” But instead more of the same as From high school and from the world …clicks of those who have the best clothes (Christ) belong and those who are not dressed in the best clothing (Christ)never will. But “making the choice” a stamp of approval to others around us to say “yea they choose right!!” They choose to do good and not evil! We might be deceived in who ends up in the hell we keep pushing as a forever burning torment for making the wrong choice. Especially under dressed in (the best)Christ and yet high minded by our choice of having put on (the best)clothing. If we are not careful we might find ourselves clothed in religion while pushing Christ out.

Here is the thing,

We all will be brought to a time in our life where we have to make a choice. Continue in unbelief, reject the grace gift of God. And either totally deny the cross. or to continue to attempt to appease God by our works, and say we will get to God our own way

or to become like the tax collector. who became poor in spirit. Unable to ven look up and cry out for Gods mercy, because he realized his sin and his death and his situation, which he could never overcome, and the depth of his sin which made him condemned.

God said he went home justified. Not the religious person who refused to repent and humble himself and look up to the cross..

there are two states for mankind, each induvidual. they are condemned because they have not believed. or they are saved, and will live forever. because they have trusted God to save them through the cross.

there is no other state

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But non of those things make a person saved. Non of those things make a person a child of God. If they have not received Christ's offer of salvation to them, they are still dead in their sin. We may not like it. I don;t like it. But what I like or do not like does not matter when it comes to the judgment of God, We can not pray our loved ones to heaven. If they have not received Christ themselves before they leave this earth. they are lost forever.

What choice?

To be like Christ?

Here is the thing,

We all will be brought to a time in our life where we have to make a choice. Continue in unbelief, reject the grace gift of God. And either totally deny the cross. or to continue to attempt to appease God by our works, and say we will get to God our own way

or to become like the tax collector. who became poor in spirit. Unable to ven look up and cry out for Gods mercy, because he realized his sin and his death and his situation, which he could never overcome, and the depth of his sin which made him condemned.

God said he went home justified. Not the religious person who refused to repent and humble himself and look up to the cross..

there are two states for mankind, each induvidual. they are condemned because they have not believed. or they are saved, and will live forever. because they have trusted God to save them through the cross.

there is no other state

I did read it and I do get what you are saying about a choice. The choice to believe. Then in the same breath we can’t pray our children into heaven. What belief is that? Personally I don’t think God would place me in a place with others around me…give me hope and a heart to pray and then say “No”. Sorry the devil wins this one that you love but I don’t love. Instead I hear him saying, “I love them more than you do and your tears and asking; I love them in ways you can’t fully understand.” So I take a breath …we could get all into debates but God isn’t held by the restraints of time. Do we know every thing? Except this He hears our prayers out from where He has put us.

My fear is the said choice to believe is saying we believe but doing the opposite of what we say we have made the choice to believe …which is no belief no matter how much we shout it from the roof tops. So we oppose others as (those) not having made the choice, when have we (made the choice)? What comes out of that choice …is it high minded and superior to those having not made our definition of a choice that we don’t even live out ourself like we claim? That should put us in the reminder of what our place is. Humility.

Because those outside of that choice might ask “is this what Christ-like looks like?” …our daughter was crying the other day. I asked her “why are you crying?” She said …because of the evidence of my (her mothers) choice …which really shook me up. She was crying over wanting to belong to a church but saying she is so scared if she tries she will become crazy and using God as weapon. She said she is scared of what she will become because no where does it look like love to her, but instead a lot of people fighting over God and what He says. I had no defense because I’ve done the same (and it is true) and all I could tell her was that she had every right (understandably) to cry over it. That her crying over it wasn’t a bad thing.

You said “what choice” …the choice of being like Christ. What is Christ like? I tried to share with you one example those within saying they have made the choice, and those without not having made the choice. Yet those within give the best seats to what they admire when …to be Christ- minded teaches to take the low seat with a warning of unless He comes and tells you to remove yourself from the high seat…and says to those not admired in the low seats “you, come up higher”.

To me the more fearful should be those claiming the choice, and not living the choice.
More so than those not understanding the choice nor claiming it, because at least they are not claiming something they are not.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did read it and I do get what you are saying about a choice. The choice to believe. Then in the same breath we can’t pray our children into heaven. What belief is that? Personally I don’t think God would place me in a place with others around me…give me hope and a heart to pray and then say “No”. Sorry the devil wins this one that you love but I don’t love. Instead I hear him saying, “I love them more than you do and your tears and asking; I love them in ways you can’t fully understand.” So I take a breath …we could get all into debates but God isn’t held by the restraints of time. Do we know every thing? Except this He hears our prayers out from where He has put us.

My fear is the said choice to believe is saying we believe but doing the opposite of what we say we have made the choice to believe …which is no belief no matter how much we shout it from the roof tops. So we oppose others as (those) not having made the choice, when have we (made the choice)? What comes out of that choice …is it high minded and superior to those having not made our definition of a choice that we don’t even live out ourself like we claim? That should put us in the reminder of what our place is. Humility.

Because those outside of that choice might ask “is this what Christ-like looks like?” …our daughter was crying the other day. I asked her “why are you crying?” She said …because of the evidence of my (her mothers) choice …which really shook me up. She was crying over wanting to belong to a church but saying she is so scared if she tries she will become crazy and using God as weapon. She said she is scared of what she will become because no where does it look like love to her, but instead a lot of people fighting over God and what He says. I had no defense because I’ve done the same (and it is true) and all I could tell her was that she had every right (understandably) to cry over it. That her crying over it wasn’t a bad thing.

You said “what choice” …the choice of being like Christ. What is Christ like? I tried to share with you one example those within saying they have made the choice, and those without not having made the choice. Yet those within give the best seats to what they admire when …to be Christ- minded teaches to take the low seat with a warning of unless He comes and tells you to remove yourself from the high seat…and says to those not admired in the low seats “you, come up higher”.

To me the more fearful should be those claiming the choice, and not living the choice.
More so than those not understanding the choice nor claiming it, because at least they are not claiming something they are not.

Not sure why it appears so hard. The word is clear in what is required and how it is done.

John 3:
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Romans 10: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

2 Timothy 1:9

who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

once again, You can chose to be like Christ every hour of every day it still not save you.. Because you have that pesky penalty of sin which you have to deal with. until that penalty is removed, your still dead. and can never be like Christ. . I know you like to use this term, I just do not know why..