So what's so new about the new Covenant, and is it better, really?

[justbyfaith]

Notice again....it does NOT say “ Repentance From SIN “......
Find anywhere in the KJV where it says the Way to be Saved is to Repent from your sins, and I will send you $1000......

You won't make good on the deal...

I already showed you a passage in the kjv that shows that in slightly different words and you would not pay up.

As a matter of fact, you will not reward success in this challenge with what you say, but will reward it instead with a blot on the person' name (that they are preaching a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel)

But here it is again.

Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

What I have highlighted above in blue makes my case for me perfectly.

You escape on a technicality because it does not have the specific words "repent from sins".

However, it does tell us what repentance is; that it means "to turn away from wickedness and do what is lawful and right..." which translates into repenting from sins.

So then, doctrinally, I have won the argument but you have escaped paying up your $1,000 on a technicality.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The following says it better than I can....from Paul Ellis....

So what is repentance? Like football, your answer to that question says a lot about where you’re coming from. If you’ve been raised under performance-based religion, repentance is something we must do to be saved. If you don’t repent, you’re not saved. What is the somethingwe must we do? Turn from sin of course. But as I will explain, this is a limited and misleading interpretation of repentance.

What is repentance?

The Greek word commonly translated repentance (metanoia) literally means to change your mind. (You can check this out for yourself by looking up a Greek lexicon such as Thayer’s and Smith’s Bible Dictionary or Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.) The Greek word for repent (metanoeo) is similar and both words are derived from the Greek word for mind (nous). So to repent is to change your mind. Nothing more, nothing less. Let’s look at an example from scripture:

“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!” (Mar 1:15)

This is where the football confusion starts to kick in. The religious mind interprets Jesus’ words as “turn from sin and believe the good news.” But that is not what Jesus is saying. Jesus is addressing unbelievers. He is saying “change your unbelieving mind and believe the good news.” Repentance is not primarily a sin issue, it’s a faith issue. We are born walking by sight and trusting in the flesh. Jesus says, change the way you think and believe the good news.

Now that we know what repentance is (a change of mind), I want to address three common myths or misconceptions.

Myth 1: Repentance brings forgiveness

… repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)

The religious mind reads this and thinks “I need to repent in order to be forgiven.” In other words, God will not forgive me unless I do something. This is pure hubris. It’s straight out of the old covenant. God is God and He has already forgiven in accordance with the riches of His grace (Eph 1:7). As I explain elsewhere, God does not need your permission to forgive you. We don’t repent to get forgiven; we repent because we are forgiven. Forgiveness is part of the good news: repent and believe it.

Myth 2: Repentance is turning from sin

Since repentance means changing your mind, it’s certainly possible that one can repent by turning from sin and there are plenty of people in the Bible who did so. But that’s only one kind of repentance and it is not the kind that leads to salvation. In the New Testament, repentance typically means turning to God.

I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus. (Act 20:21)

Turning from versus turning to may seem like splitting hairs, but it’s the difference between life and death! Someone who turns to God automatically turns from sin and from their dead religious works, but someone who turns from sin does not automatically turn to God. This is why it is misleading and dangerous to preach repentance as “turning from sin.” Paul never did. “I preached that they should repent and turn to God” (Act 26:20). As usual, Paul took his lead from Jesus:

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Luk 5:32)

Again, the religious mind interprets this as a call to turn from sin but turning from sin doesn’t make you righteous. An unbeliever who turns from sin remains an unbeliever. Consider the Pharisees. They ran away anytime sin appeared. If anyone knew how to turn from sin they did yet Jesus called them sons of hell (Mt 23:15). Turning from sin will make you a moral person, but it won’t make you righteous. Righteousness comes to us through faith in Christ alone.

I appreciate that what I am saying about repentance contradicts reputable commentaries. So let’s take a look at one. To the right is a screenshot taken from BibleStudyTools.com showing Thayer’s and Smith’s definition of the word “repent.” (Click on the image to see a larger version.) You will see that they provide two definitions: (1) to change one’s mind and (2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins. Abhorrence is a strong word. It sounds like the experts are defining repentance as turning from sin. But do you see the problem? It is logically impossible for both of these definitions to be fully true. If the second definition is true, and repentance does indeed mean turning from sin, then we should reject the first definition as misleading. It needs qualification. But if the first definition is true, then the second is incomplete. It is as if we had looked up the word “turn” in the dictionary and found that it simultaneously means (1) to change direction and (2) to change direction by always going left.

To sum up, repentance can mean turning from sin, but since turning from sin will not save you this is exactly the wrong sort of repentance to preach. I’ll discuss this point further in my next post.

Myth 3: Repentance means feeling sorry for sin

Let’s look at another reputable source. To the right is a screenshot taken from the Blue Letter Bible showing F.F. Bruce’s definition of repentance: “Repentance… involves a turning with contrition from sin to God.” My problem here is with the qualifier contrition. Apparently it is not enough that you turn to God, you must turn with remorse, regret, and feelings of guilt. If you don’t have these feelings then you’ve not really repented and therefore you’re not saved. So go away, ponder your sins, and come back when you’re ready to have a good cry about them.

This is pure emotionalism. This is old covenant sackcloth and ashes. This is Judas killing himself with grief. The good news is supposed to release great joy, not great sorrow. When you’ve heard that God loves you and has forgiven you and carried all your infirmities and has provided everything you need for life and godliness, why would you be sad? It’s truly bizarre.

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. (2 Cor 7:10)

Religious people read this scripture backwards: “Repentance brings godly sorrow.” Or they say “repentance is godly sorrow.” But Paul says no such thing. In KJVese he says godly sorrow worketh repentance. In other words, godly sorrow and repentance are different things. And if you read the context you will see that Paul was not referring to the repentance that leads salvation but the relational strain between him and his beloved Corinthians. They had given him the cold shoulder, he rebuked them, they felt bad about it and repented.

Godly sorrow can and does lead to repentance but it’s unlikely that you will cry every time you change your mind about the Lord. In truth, it doesn’t really matter how your emotions respond when you learn about the good news of God’s grace. It only matters that you believe it.

Repentance, like football, means different things to different people. But only one code of the game is played in heaven (rugby!). Similarly, there’s only one kind of repentance that matters to God and that’s the kind that leads you to Him. His heart’s desire is for you to come to Him. You can come happy or come sad but the main thing is that you come.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sin is not going to be allowed in heaven....otherwise heaven will not truly be heavenly.

We have our decision in this life as to whether we will relinquish our sins to Jesus on the Cross or else keep them in our lives.

When we are judged, if we have not been separated from our sins, all sin is going to be cast into the lake of fire; and if we have not given our sins to Christ, we will be cast into the lake of fire along with our sins.

The Cross of Jesus is the remedy for sin (Matthew 1;21, Titus 2:14)...

If we genuinely place our faith in Jesus and what He did for us, our sins are going to be dealt with by the Cross.

 

[Tong2020]

I was referring to John's perspective.....this time of the New Covenant, where various laws do not have to be literally kept anymore. From this perspective it is not correct to switch what John said, 'sin is transgression of the law', to 'transgression of the law is sin'. It seems like you can at first, but you can't.

Whenever we sin we are in transgression of the law, but because of the cross it is no longer correct to say that every time we literally transgress the law we are sinning. I used the most obvious example in the law to illustrate the truth of that—animal sacrifice.

<<<Whenever we sin we are in transgression of the law, but because of the cross it is no longer correct to say that every time we literally transgress the law we are sinning.>>>

What law are you referring to that you say when Christian sins, they “are in transgression of the law”?

Tong
R1883

 

[justbyfaith]

<<<Whenever we sin we are in transgression of the law, but because of the cross it is no longer correct to say that every time we literally transgress the law we are sinning.>>>

What law are you referring to that you say when Christian sins, they “are in transgression of the law”?

Tong
R1883

I don't want to answer for @Ferris Bueller,

But I think that Matthew 5:17-20 ought to have application here.

 

[Brakelite]

Be careful not to switch what John said. He did not say transgression of the law is sin. He said sin is transgression of the law. To illustrate, you aren't sinning if you don't sacrifice an animal for your sin as required by the law. So he was not saying transgression of the law is sin. What he was saying was when you sin you are in violation of the law.

What you have illustrated is true of the laws pertaining to the sanctuary... But does not work when applied to the Ten Commandments. Transgressing the ten commandments is sin. Every time. All the time. And sin is transgression against those Commandments. It is also unbelief. It is also omission to do what you know is right.

 

[justbyfaith]

What you have illustrated is true of the laws pertaining to the sanctuary... But does not work when applied to the Ten Commandments. Transgressing the ten commandments is sin. Every time. All the time. And sin is transgression against those Commandments. It is also unbelief. It is also omission to do what you know is right.

Actually, if you are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), if you violate the law you have not transgressed and therefore have not sinned (Romans 4:15); for that sin is not imputed to your account (Romans 5:13).

While if you are under the law, are not dead to the law, and are not delivered from the law, you may sin according to the flesh, and you can be sure that 1 John 3:4 is saying that in performing that work of the flesh you will be in violation of some law; because sin is the transgression of the law; while the transgression of the law is not necessarily sin.

 

[Brakelite]

I've only scanned this thread and it looks like we're missing what the Bible says is superior about the New Covenant over and above the old covenant—it's Priesthood and Sacrifice and how sin is dealt with. This is all taught in Hebrews.

I believe I covered that somewhat here. The problem I am having in this thread is trying to find some form of consensus concerning what laws are being referred to by Paul, how many are there, and what in actuality is a covenant? No-one is in agreement with anyone else on anything, which leads me to believe that in modem Christianity there is a very sizable gap to be filled as far as understanding the very basics of our faith. BTW, I'm not pretending I have everything down pat either. But there not a lot that I've read so far that imbues me with any confidence that I'm going to change my mind on anything in a hurry.

Okay, that's clearer. We read in the NT that the law was never for a righteous man. It was for sinners. Thieves, murderers, adulterers, covetous, etc etc. Which is why Paul was so torn in Romans 7, recognizing the righteous demands of the law of God being holy and perfect, but also recognizing that in himself, there was the law of his rebellious nature that was at war with God's law. Praise God for Jesus he said because there was his answer. Now, there is no condemnation. He's a new man. Forgiven. Grace is always greater than sin. Now, Paul and Jesus are in a covenantal relationship that Paul described figuratively as a marriage. There is no law necessary in order to convince Paul to love his Husband. If your wife left a note on the breakfast table every morning saying, "don't commit adultery", and on your pillow every night, "don't commit adultery", then I would imagine you would be not a little aggrieved at the unnecessary reminder of your obligations. You love her! Of course you're not going to commit adultery. Yet, if you did for some terrible moment yield to that temptation, would you not be reminded of your obligation to your wife and that your declarations of love are all a little hollow in comparison to the law that your love and life even, was meant to fulfill? Is then the law for you, now you are convicted of your unrighteousness? I believe so, absolutely, because no longer are you living as a righteous man. Are you then under the law, under its condemnation, until such time as you repent? Again, I believe yes.

 

[Brakelite]

Actually, if you are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), if you violate the law you have not transgressed and therefore have not sinned (Romans 4:15); for that sin is not imputed to your account (Romans 5:13).

While if you are under the law, are not dead to the law, and are not delivered from the law, you may sin according to the flesh, and you can be sure that 1 John 3:4 is saying that in performing that work of the flesh you will be in violation of some law; because sin is the transgression of the law; while the transgression of the law is not necessarily sin.

Okay. This is where the real bottom line meaning of covenant comes into play. Relational integrity. If the Christian has an ongoing growing and fruitful relationship with Jesus, and he slips up in ignorance, or a one off demonstration of weakness, and turns to Jesus for forgiveness and the strength to live in greater harmony with His character, them I agree, the law is powerless because grace is greater. The man of woman by turning to Christ is demonstrating faith... Belief... And trust in a forgiving faithful loving God... That is new covenant living... New covenant relational integrity. However, if that man or woman fails to respond to chastising... Fails to respond to conviction, and gardens the heart against the desire to give up that sin and continues for example in an adulterous relationship, eventually that person will stop believing in forgiveness... His faith will dry up and his attitude toward God Himself will harden. He will then fail to gain glory, not because of sin, but rather because of unbelief. This position will not be reached easily. Good will fight for him/her every step of the way and implore with all His power to plead for the sinner's change of mind. It must take determined effort to reject God's pleadings. But never will God save us against our will.

 

[Tong2020]

What you have illustrated is true of the laws pertaining to the sanctuary... But does not work when applied to the Ten Commandments. Transgressing the ten commandments is sin. Every time. All the time. And sin is transgression against those Commandments. It is also unbelief. It is also omission to do what you know is right.

I would have to remind us that the Christian is already not under the law, that is, the Law of Moses, the codified body of laws. They have been delivered from the law. They are not under the old covenant but under the new covenant.

Tong
R1884

 

[Tong2020]

Actually, if you are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), if you violate the law you have not transgressed and therefore have not sinned (Romans 4:15); for that sin is not imputed to your account (Romans 5:13).

While if you are under the law, are not dead to the law, and are not delivered from the law, you may sin according to the flesh, and you can be sure that 1 John 3:4 is saying that in performing that work of the flesh you will be in violation of some law; because sin is the transgression of the law; while the transgression of the law is not necessarily sin.

<<<if you violate the law>>>

The Christian is not under the law, so he can’t be said to violate it nor governed by it.

Tong
R1885

 

[justbyfaith]

The Christian is not under the law, so he can’t be said to violate it

Exactly!

nor governed by it.

That the believer under the New Covenant is governed by the law is evident in such passages as:

Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5.

The law gives the specifics of what it means to love God and neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10).

Other passages that carry relevance are James 1:22-25 and James 2:10-12.

Also, it should be clear that there is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21).

This is because faith apprehends the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:14) and the Holy Spirit, as He lives His life in us and through us, lives out the righteousness of faith. The righteousness of faith has to do with walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (by faith); and results in the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Because when we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn our behaviour; we will not violate any law if we are bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

Therefore in bearing the fruit of the Spirit we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven. But the venue by which we obtain this righteousness is not through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; rather we obtain this righteousness when we walk and live by faith.

 

[Cooper]

Tell me what you mean by Mitzvot laws.

That the law applies to both Jew and Gentile should be evident in Romans 3:19-20. All the world will become guilty before God because of what is written in the law. So, the law applies as a standard for all that declares the guilt of every sinner.

The Mitzvot Laws, found in the first five books of the Old Testament are Jewish Civil Law. I live under English Law and you live under American Law. While I Live in England, I cannot be found guilty under American Law, Jewish Law or any other law. The exception is that we can all be found guilty under the Law of God which applies to all sinners and is universal. In brief God’s laws are the Ten Commandments to which Jesus added many more in the Sermon on the Mount. Forget Jewish law here:
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Romans 3:19 means what it says. This is God’s Law, which as I said can be found in the Ten Commandment and the teaching of Jesus. I repeat. Forget the Jewish laws about stoning etc. It does not apply to us today.

Now we know that everything in the Law applies to those who live under the Law, (we live under grace) in order to stop all human excuses and bring the whole world under God's judgment. For no one is put right in God's sight by doing what the Law requires; what the Law does is to make us know that we have sinned. (Romans 3:19-20 GNB)

Regarding Romans 3:19-20
3:20 No one can be justified by keeping the law. The law was not given to justify people but to produce the knowledge of sin—not the knowledge of salvation, but the knowledge of sin.

From the Believers Bible:
We could never know what a crooked line is unless we also knew a straight line. The law is like a straight line. When men test themselves by it, they see how crooked they are.

We can use a mirror to see that our face is dirty, but the mirror is not designed to wash the dirty face. A thermometer will tell if a person has a fever, but swallowing the thermometer will not cure the fever.

The law is good when it is used to produce conviction of sin, but it is worthless as a saviour from sin. As Luther said, its function is not to justify but to terrify.

Moving on. We are all guilty according to the Law of God, and if we continue reading we find out, as we already know, how God deals with the believing repentant sinner.

The Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now God's way of putting people right with himself has been revealed. It has nothing to do with law, even though the Law of Moses and the prophets gave their witness to it.
Rom 3:22 God puts people right through their faith in Jesus Christ. God does this to all who believe in Christ, because there is no difference at all:
Rom 3:23 everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence.
Rom 3:24 But by the free gift of God's grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free.

Please do not conflate Old Testament Law with God's New Testament gift of grace that is freely given to all who believe.

conflate (meaning)
1. To bring together; merge or fuse:
2. To combine (two variant texts, for example) into one whole.
3. To fail to distinguish between; confuse.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, we are all guilty according to the Law of God,

Therefore, the law applies to all of us (Jew and Gentile alike).

(cont'd in #116)

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I don’t think so.

We learn from scriptures that faith is what pleases God and without faith no one can please God. Whether works are acceptable and pleasing to God is not whether they are right or wrong, good or bad, according to the knowledge of good and evil, but whether they come from and are according to faith or not. That has been the spiritual reality ever since.

So, we can easily understand that God’s salvation is through faith and not through works. So, to think that God gave the codified body of law, the law of Moses, consisting of works ~ the works of the law, as another way through which God saves, runs in conflict to the law of faith and contradicts many truths in scriptures. For one, it contradicts the very purpose of the giving of the law, that is, to bring them to Christ, that they might be justified by faith. It also contradicts what Paul said concerning the Law, that there was not a law given that which could have given life. For if there was, Paul reasoned that, righteousness would have been by the law. It also contradicts what Paul said, “ For if the inheritance isof the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.“. And many more...

The Salvation of God has always been through faith, then and now. Even in living a righteous life, it has always been by faith. Remember? The just shall live by faith.


Why the law was codified and was given to Israel was for some purpose, which Paul have revealed in his writings. It is also clear that it was not given as a way to be saved from sin and hell, but to keep them under guard. Under guard from what, is the thing many seems not to really put time and effort to find out. On my part, I told you what my view is, which is in the quote box.

<<<you know very well that Christ was not taught in the OT.>>>

God sent word about Him through the prophets. Not that there was nothing spoken about Him, but that what was taught concerning Him was different from what the word of God said of Him. If the Messiah was not taught in the OT, why did Israel knew of the Messiah, that they await Him? The short coming was not with God, but with those of Israel who were tasked to teach them the word of God, especially the Levites and the Levitical priests. Their shepherds had led them astray.

Again Tong, I feel that you're quoting a lot of verses that support your position, and they do, but you're not really comprehending their significance. Or, at at least, you haven't really explained how two, mutually exclusive, Covenants were enacted by God side by side? There is no need for one, with the other, they are antagonistic to each other. You insist that the Israelites knew of Christ, but for the life of you, you can't find a single exposition in the OT about this?

I agree with the passages that you quoted, but it is an extremely tricky prospect to try and harmonize them with what occurred in the OT. I believe, therefore, that Paul cites these principles as to what should be realized once Christ has been revealed, and how it is prudent to entirely abandon the precepts of the Law. Even up to the time of Christ, Simeon & Anna, Zechariah & Elizabeth, Nathaniel , fastidiously held to the Law, it is understood that they were not misguided nor mislead. For again, one Law is absolutely redundant while the other one is in place.

<<<Or, at at least, you haven't really explained how two, mutually exclusive, Covenants were enacted by God side by side?>>>

I explained that in my post, but it seems that you did not get it. There are not two covenants really. There is only really one covenant we are talking about, that is, the covenant of God with Abraham. In the course of God fulfilling His covenant with Abraham, wherein Abraham is no longer around, He establishes His covenant with Abraham’s seed. Though that is not another and exclusive covenant separate from God’s covenant with Abraham. After Abraham, God established His covenant with Abraham’s seed Isaac, then with Isaac’s seed Jacob, then with the children of Israel (Jacob). In is with the children of Israel that God added to the covenant the law of Moses, a codified body of laws that will govern them, as He make good His covenant promise to Abraham. With Israel, God will make them His people, a holy nation and a kingdom of priest. The law was not added as though it were a different system of salvation, but was added in line with God’s making of them a holy nation and a kingdom of priest.

But it does not stop there, for there is yet to come the seed of Abraham to whom the promises were made, that is, Jesus Christ. And Christ did come and have already come. So, God established the covenant with Him, the new covenant ~ Jesus Christ, in whom all nations will be blessed.

<<<You insist that the Israelites knew of Christ, but for the life of you, you can't find a single exposition in the OT about this?>>>

Yes they did. But as I have explained, only that they knew differently. If you are thinking that they knew exactly the truth about the Messiah, that is not what I was saying nor that is what happened.

<<<Even up to the time of Christ, Simeon & Anna, Zechariah & Elizabeth, Nathaniel , fastidiously held to the Law, it is understood that they were not misguided nor mislead.>>>

Of course they would, for the new covenant was not yet been made to replace the Mosaic covenant.

You have just there given proof that they, being part of Israel, knew of the Messiah. And in fact, they were waiting for Him to come. They display their faith in God, who promised to send them the Messiah who is the Savior. Though of course, not all Israel knew the Messiah as they did. But it is a fact that all Israel was waiting for the Messiah to come.

Tong
R1885

 

[justbyfaith]

(cont'd from #114)

If we do and teach the least of God's commandments we will be called great in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-20).

This would indicate that it is not only the ten commandments that we are to follow if we want to be counted great in God's kingdom.

 

[Cooper]

Therefore, the law applies to all of us (Jew and Gentile alike).

(cont'd in #116)

God's law applies only to the unbelieving sinner. The repentant sinner who comes before God is REDEEMED and FORGIVEN. They are saved from their sins which have been blotted out by the blood of the Lamb.
.

 

[Cooper]

(cont'd from #114)

If we do and teach the least of God's commandments we will be called great in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-20).

This would indicate that it is not only the ten commandments that we are to follow if we want to be counted great in God's kingdom.

I explained by saying the Ten Commandments plus the teaching of Jesus.

Remember it is Jesus who saves and not the preacher of the Commandments.
.

 

[Cooper]

<<<Or, at at least, you haven't really explained how two, mutually exclusive, Covenants were enacted by God side by side?>>>

I explained that in my post, but it seems that you did not get it. There are not two covenants really. There is only really one covenant we are talking about, that is, the covenant of God with Abraham. In the course of God fulfilling His covenant with Abraham, wherein Abraham is no longer around, He establishes His covenant with Abraham’s seed. Though that is not another and exclusive covenant separate from God’s covenant with Abraham. After Abraham, God established His covenant with Abraham’s seed Isaac, then with Isaac’s seed Jacob, then with the children of Israel (Jacob). In is with the children of Israel that God added to the covenant the law of Moses, a codified body of laws that will govern them, as He make good His covenant promise to Abraham. With Israel, God will make them His people, a holy nation and a kingdom of priest. The law was not added as though it were a different system of salvation, but was added in line with God’s making of them a holy nation and a kingdom of priest.

But it does not stop there, for there is yet to come the seed of Abraham to whom the promises were made, that is, Jesus Christ. And Christ did come and have already come. So, God established the covenant with Him, the new covenant ~ Jesus Christ, in whom all nations will be blessed.

<<<You insist that the Israelites knew of Christ, but for the life of you, you can't find a single exposition in the OT about this?>>>

Yes they did. But as I have explained, only that they knew differently. If you are thinking that they knew exactly the truth about the Messiah, that is not what I was saying nor that is what happened.

<<<Even up to the time of Christ, Simeon & Anna, Zechariah & Elizabeth, Nathaniel , fastidiously held to the Law, it is understood that they were not misguided nor mislead.>>>

Of course they would, for the new covenant was not yet been made to replace the Mosaic covenant.

You have just there given proof that they, being part of Israel, knew of the Messiah. And in fact, they were waiting for Him to come. They display their faith in God, who promised to send them the Messiah who is the Savior. Though of course, not all Israel knew the Messiah as they did. But it is a fact that all Israel was waiting for the Messiah to come.

Tong
R1885

Best to keep it simple I think.
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[justbyfaith]

God's law applies only to the unbelieving sinner.

Yes, I am aware of that.

However I would say that unbelieving sinner, as a category, consists of both Jews and Gentiles.

I explained by saying the Ten Commandments plus the teaching of Jesus.

Remember it is Jesus who saves and not the preacher of the Ten Commandments.

The preacher of the ten commandments may be instrumental in the salvation of a person.

Jde 1:22, And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.