Sola Fide

[bbyrd009]

imo you believe that James is for some special snowflakes at your peril

 

[Marymog]

Absolutely not! Jews who are converting to Christanity should believe the message Paul preached. Grace through faith and not of works. If they believe otherwise, they are of like mind of those who had Paul arrested and shipped off to Rome.

Payl said that we are all onr blood, that there is neither Greek nor Jew (but ine in Christ) and if anyone - even another apostle or an angel - preach any other Gospel they are accursed. Even Gabriel! If Gabriel himself comes preaching a different gospel.... He is accursed.

James.... He was teaching whay he knew. I believe he was a Christian and I believe he was sincere in his teaching and love for Jesus. But he was not teaching the same message that Jesus gave to Paul.

So yes. Read Acts 21-23. See what these believing Jews who followed James did.

Oh goodness. FHII, you have me lost.

I asked you, "Is the entire book of James for the followers of the Jewish faith only?" You said, YES!

Then you said, Jews who are converting to Christianity should believe the message Paul preached.

Which is it? Do the Jews follow the book of James OR follow Paul's teachings? Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying....I apologize.

I thought JAMES (who wrote James) was Jesus brother or cousin? The one spoken of in Acts 15 who was at the Council of Jerusalem? James, the bishop of Jerusalem. Isn't that who wrote JAMES?

The only thing I see in Acts 21-23 are the Jews the Pharisees and the Sadducees putting Paul in prison and trying to kill him. Unless I missed it I do not see James mentioned as their leader. Did I miss it?

From whom did you get this teaching? I have Googled 'James leader of Jews who wanted to kill Paul' (with other variations of wordings) and can't find anyone teaching that.

confused and curious Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

: popcorn

 

[FHII]

The only thing I see in Acts 21-23 are the Jews the Pharisees and the Sadducees putting Paul in prison and trying to kill him. Unless I missed it I do not see James mentioned as their leader. Did I miss it?

Yes. Whom is it that Paul reported to when he got there?

From whom did you get this teaching? I have Googled 'James leader of Jews who wanted to kill Paul' (with other variations of wordings) and can't find anyone teaching that.

I don't know why you would google it when I told you where it was in the Bible... But anyway... I had no problems finding it on Google.

 

[Marymog]

Yes. Whom is it that Paul reported to when he got there?

James AND all the elders.

I don't know why you would google it when I told you where it was in the Bible... But anyway... I had no problems finding it on Google.

I Googled it because I can't find your theory in the bible. Did you come up with this on your own? Did you read this theory from someone else

 

[Marymog]

Yes. Whom is it that Paul reported to when he got there?

I don't know why you would google it when I told you where it was in the Bible... But anyway... I had no problems finding it on Google.

Hi FHII,

I was wondering if you were going to answer these questions also:

I asked you, "Is the entire book of James for the followers of the Jewish faith only?" You said, YES!

Then you said, Jews who are converting to Christianity should believe the message Paul preached.

Which is it? Do the Jews follow the book of James OR follow Paul's teachings? Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying....I apologize.

 

[FHII]

Hi FHII,

I was wondering if you were going to answer these questions also:

I asked you, "Is the entire book of James for the followers of the Jewish faith only?" You said, YES!

Then you said, Jews who are converting to Christianity should believe the message Paul preached.

Which is it? Do the Jews follow the book of James OR follow Paul's teachings? Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying....I apologize.

Is there a difference between Judiasm and Christianity?

 

[Marymog]

Is there a difference between Judiasm and Christianity?

Thank you.

Mary

 

[twinc]

James was for the Jews - Paul was for the Gentiles - Peter was for the Jews and the Gentiles - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

Is there a difference between Judiasm and Christianity?

What are you saying???
Were not the first Christians Jewish?

Where is the cut-off point?
Are we not one BODY and the head is JESUS?

EVERY BOOK IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IS FOR EVERYONE!

How could it be otherwise?

WHERE in James does he say that his book is only for the Jews?

Please provide me with the scripture you gave to Marymog

@twinc also has this odd idea, which is unheard of in tradiional Christianity.

 

[twinc]

What are you saying???
Were not the first Christians Jewish?

Where is the cut-off point?
Are we not one BODY and the head is JESUS?

EVERY BOOK IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IS FOR EVERYONE!

How could it be otherwise?

WHERE in James does he say that his book is only for the Jews?

Please provide me with the scripture you gave to Marymog

@twinc also has this odd idea, which is unheard of in tradiional Christianity.

James was primarily addressing the twelve tribes of Israel = Jews [James1:1] - he was elected Bishop of Jerusalem , it seems because his teaching salvation by works was acceptable to his Jewish congregation - not too sure that the first Christians were Jewish or whether the Apostles baptized each other before any other Gentiles - whilst the NT might rightly be for everyone the big mistake is to interpret it as if everything in it applies or is addressed to everyone - I see no odd ideas - btw it is recorded elsewhere that James only moments before his death, and presumably after he wrote his epistle, when he was thrown to his death from the temple roof and was bludgeoned to death by a fullers staff, as he fell, for finally accepting and declaring that Jesus was the [door] way - twinc

 

[FHII]

What are you saying???
Were not the first Christians Jewish

Of course they were. What's your point? There are differences between Judiasm and Christianity. I did not anticipate anyone not understanding this.

Where is the cut-off point?
Are we not one BODY and the head is JESUS?

That's really not hard to find an answer to. Accepting Christ and who he is IS that cut off point.

WHERE in James does he say that his book is only for the Jews?

James 1:1. By the way... I thought this has been covered enough. He wrote TO the scattered 12 tribes. It was written FOR us to understand. Its not the only time this happens in the NT. Both epistles to Timothy were written TO Timothy directly and TO preachers and evangelists of today indirectly. They are written FOR us to understand.

Please provide me with the scripture you gave to Marymog

Which ones? About what? I've given her quite a few. Why don't you just read what I wrote to her?

@twinc also has this odd idea, which is unheard of in tradiional Christianity.

Yea... He's got a pretty good handle on this one.

 

[FHII]

Mary. Do you not realize who it was that had Paul arrested, sent to Rome and ended his ministry? It was Jews who believed. It was Jewish Christians who STILL were zealous for the law.

I must admit this may not be entirely true. Everything that I said happened is true. James was their leader as twinc pretty much noted. To further the point Paul spoke with James in Acts 21. The elders were present but the conversation was between James and Paul. And from the mouth of James himself the believing Jews were zealous for the law and were upset at Paul.

What may not be true is who looked to kill Paul. Lets start with Acts 21:20-24. James says there are many thousands of Jews which believe [the context indicates that they supposedly believed in Christ] and they were zealous for the law. By verse 24 James was speaking for them and demanding that Paul show them he still kept the law.

I want to skip to verse 27. By then Oaul has appeased them. However, it was Jews from Asia (Turkey) that started the ruckus.

So the possible error is whether they were actually "Jews that believed" or those who were sticking to Judiasm.

The instigators were from Asia, not Turkey and MAY not have been followers of James. It simply doesn't say either way. So I admit that i have no proof of that. It may not have been believers and followers of James that started the riot.

However, overall it doesn't matter.

James's many thousands who believed were of like mind. They were zealous of the law and demanded Paul do the same. Also, the account says that the Asian Jews stirred up ALL the peopke there. There is no account that many thousands stood up for Paul against possibly only 40-50 hardliners (see Acts 23:13).

So.... I admit my error though it is actually quite small. Those that instigated Paul's arrest and those that sought to kill him may not have been "believing Jews". But those believers and James himaelf certainly were sympathetic with them and clearly were involved.

 

[aspen]

Come one, come all!

Wikipedia (abbreviated):

Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine....

I am a strong supporter of justification by faith alone. I have many verses. Here's two:

Romans 4:5-6 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

Sorry, I am late to the conversation- please direct me to the appropriate posts if this has already been mentioned - it is a pretty standard comment, I haven't seen it on the first page.

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

So this the only time 'faith alone' is mentioned in the NT and it speaks against the doctrine

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi FHII,

I was wondering if you were going to answer these questions also:

I asked you, "Is the entire book of James for the followers of the Jewish faith only?" You said, YES!

Then you said, Jews who are converting to Christianity should believe the message Paul preached.

Which is it? Do the Jews follow the book of James OR follow Paul's teachings? Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying....I apologize.

I must admit this may not be entirely true. Everything that I said happened is true. James was their leader as twinc pretty much noted. To further the point Paul spoke with James in Acts 21. The elders were present but the conversation was between James and Paul. And from the mouth of James himself the believing Jews were zealous for the law and were upset at Paul.

What may not be true is who looked to kill Paul. Lets start with Acts 21:20-24. James says there are many thousands of Jews which believe [the context indicates that they supposedly believed in Christ] and they were zealous for the law. By verse 24 James was speaking for them and demanding that Paul show them he still kept the law.

I want to skip to verse 27. By then Oaul has appeased them. However, it was Jews from Asia (Turkey) that started the ruckus.

So the possible error is whether they were actually "Jews that believed" or those who were sticking to Judiasm.

The instigators were from Asia, not Turkey and MAY not have been followers of James. It simply doesn't say either way. So I admit that i have no proof of that. It may not have been believers and followers of James that started the riot.

However, overall it doesn't matter.

James's many thousands who believed were of like mind. They were zealous of the law and demanded Paul do the same. Also, the account says that the Asian Jews stirred up ALL the peopke there. There is no account that many thousands stood up for Paul against possibly only 40-50 hardliners (see Acts 23:13).

So.... I admit my error though it is actually quite small. Those that instigated Paul's arrest and those that sought to kill him may not have been "believing Jews". But those believers and James himaelf certainly were sympathetic with them and clearly were involved.

If the book of James was only for the Jews,
WHY is it in the bible, which was put together in the 4th century when all the Christians were separated from the Jews by belief in Christ?

 

[FHII]

Sorry, I am late to the conversation- please direct me to the appropriate posts if this has already been mentioned - it is a pretty standard comment, I haven't seen it on the first page.

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

So this the only time 'faith alone' is mentioned in the NT and it speaks against the doctrine

Aspen

Romans 4 and Eph 2 both speak of faith without works. They aren't the inly ones, but I consider them the strongest.

 

[GodsGrace]

James was primarily addressing the twelve tribes of Israel = Jews [James1:1] - he was elected Bishop of Jerusalem , it seems because his teaching salvation by works was acceptable to his Jewish congregation - not too sure that the first Christians were Jewish or whether the Apostles baptized each other before any other Gentiles - whilst the NT might rightly be for everyone the big mistake is to interpret it as if everything in it applies or is addressed to everyone - I see no odd ideas - btw it is recorded elsewhere that James only moments before his death, and presumably after he wrote his epistle, when he was thrown to his death from the temple roof and was bludgeoned to death by a fullers staff, as he fell, for finally accepting and declaring that Jesus was the [door] way - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

@twinc
Does your above non-post mean you don't have an answer to my question?

And is it any wonder...

 

[Marymog]

Sorry, I am late to the conversation- please direct me to the appropriate posts if this has already been mentioned - it is a pretty standard comment, I haven't seen it on the first page.

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

So this the only time 'faith alone' is mentioned in the NT and it speaks against the doctrine

Hi Aspen,

That has been pointed out. Apparently FHII thinks that the book of James is for Jewish people only. So if you, aspen, are a convert to Christianity from Judaism then you need to adhere to it and I, Marymog, don't since I have been Christian all my life.

He also thinks that James was the leader of the Jews to have Paul killed. He try's to explain that theory but it makes no sense to me. I have searched the internet for anyone teaching that theory and I can't find it. FHII is also unable to provide me any link to anyone teaching that theory so I am guessing that he came up with it. I could be wrong. Have you ever heard that before? James being the leader of the Jews that wanted to kill Paul?

Respectfully, Mary

 

[FHII]

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

Aspen

I also want to make another comment: James was writing to the 12 tribes which were scattered abroad. This is known to us because he said so in verse 1:1.

It was written for us to read and understand. I am hoping you undertand or at least acknowledge the difference between something being written to someone and being written for someone to read. Because a few here still don't get it or are simply ignoring it.