Sola Fide

[bbyrd009]

Then you say you don't know about proof but you know that infants go to heaven is true? What is your proof that infants go to heaven? But you don't know about proof?????

note that even if i did believe as you do there, in that case we would just share a belief, about the future, and that others would still have what they felt was valid doctrine to "prove" that babies, what, went to hell or purgatory or whatever.

And this is where i came in, as this concept is, to me, "peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart". So do what you like, ok, but imo you are seeking "proof" to convince others that you are "right," about something that no one knows except God, and no one can verify this side of the grave.

and in the process maybe disregarding that others are expressing what is in their hearts to you, as you are to them. The nearest analogy i can think of this early might be me trying to prove to you that you are actually a man or something. i might even eventually prevail somehow, but what would be the point?

 

[bbyrd009]

How do we know who are the honest/good prophets or teachers? How do we know who the false teachers are?

my guess is listen to your heart, and if even Benny Hinn is who God has you under at the moment, you are there to learn something. And when you have learned it, you should hear the call to go find your next Right Pastor

 

[bbyrd009]

People make a big mistake when they do not see that the Holy Spirit teaches by revelation just as He taught Paul. But they have to have Him indwelling in them and listen.

yes, that :)

iow the false prophet is in me, and you can even hear him, whereas i am deaf to him, mostly
prolly not the best way to put it lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Improved for sure. But there wasn't much room for regression, lol. ;)

ha actually i am just lazy or whatever, in a hurry, but my edit count is already like 1.5 times my post count lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Dear sir,

Since you did not complete your sentences I do not understand what you just wrote. My point is:

My daughter has a BELIEF in Jesus but not FAITH in Jesus. She does NOT act on His commandments.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES THE WILL (actions) of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Those who ACT (not faith alone) on the commandments of God will go to heaven.

Mary

btw i didn't mean to imply that your daughter was like hopeless or anything, not by any means. She surely has gotten a measure of faith, and parents just judge with their own eyes. We learn by mistakes, for all of our pontificating about righteousness. I shot meth for 20 years. Let your kids make mistakes, God can take care of them

 

[Marymog]

btw i didn't mean to imply that your daughter was like hopeless or anything, not by any means. She surely has gotten a measure of faith, and parents just judge with their own eyes. We learn by mistakes, for all of our pontificating about righteousness. I shot meth for 20 years. Let your kids make mistakes, God can take care of them

Thank you bbyrd. I did not feel you were implying that at all. I believe you are a good person with no ill intent toward me.
It does make me sad the route she has taken. She is a great wife, daughter, employee, sister and person in general but we raised her to be more giving to others (homeless shelters, food pantries etc) and she has walked away from that.

Thank you for your kind words.

 

[Marymog]

my guess is listen to your heart, and if even Benny Hinn is who God has you under at the moment, you are there to learn something. And when you have learned it, you should hear the call to go find your next Right Pastor

LOL...I get your theory but it isn't sustainable. It leads to me being my own "Right Pastor". Your theory makes ME RIGHT and everyone else wrong.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

note that even if i did believe as you do there, in that case we would just share a belief, about the future, and that others would still have what they felt was valid doctrine to "prove" that babies, what, went to hell or purgatory or whatever.
And this is where i came in, as this concept is, to me, "peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart". So do what you like, ok, but imo you are seeking "proof" to convince others that you are "right," about something that no one knows except God, and no one can verify this side of the grave.
and in the process maybe disregarding that others are expressing what is in their hearts to you, as you are to them. The nearest analogy i can think of this early might be me trying to prove to you that you are actually a man or something. i might even eventually prevail somehow, but what would be the point?

We know that the souls of humans go to heaven or hell. Infants are humans so their soul goes to either heaven or hell. Right? There is no reason for them to go to hell so therefor they must go to heaven. Right?

Sometimes it's not a matter of "proof"...It is a matter of logic.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

Your theory makes ME RIGHT and everyone else wrong.

well imo that would be lack of hearing, not the invalidation of the Right Pastor idea, but one should do what works for them i spose

 

[bbyrd009]

We know that the souls of humans go to heaven or hell.

so you say, but you cannot quote any Scrip for that, even if it seems like you can. Give it a shot if you like

 

[bbyrd009]

It is a matter of logic.

lol, ok, best of luck there

 

[Marymog]

well imo that would be lack of hearing, not the invalidation of the Right Pastor idea, but one should do what works for them i spose

Dear bbyrd,

1st off I wanted to congratulate you for kicking your addiction to meth.

If you as my pastor say baptism is not necessary for salvation and I say you are wrong, your belief doesn't work for me, I then move on to the next "right pastor" who believes what I believe. That "right pastor" then, 6 months later, whom I thought was right reveals that all gay people go to hell and he says the bible backs up his belief. But I don't see that in the bible, he does. That CLEARLY does not work for me so I find a pastor that says baptism is necessary for salvation AND says that gay people go to heaven also. Finally....the "right pastor", someone who agrees with me. Then, 6 months later, he reveals that he is OK with abortion. Oh boy...time to find another pastor that is "right"....here I go again. Looking for another Church....looking for another pastor.

That is your theory in a nutshell. Right?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

so you say, but you cannot quote any Scrip for that, even if it seems like you can. Give it a shot if you like

Hold on here. Before we go further.....Are you saying that souls DON'T go to heaven or hell?

Confused Mary

 

[Marymog]

lol, ok, best of luck there

You disagree with logic?

Curious Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

Dear bbyrd,

1st off I wanted to congratulate you for kicking your addiction to meth.

If you as my pastor say baptism is not necessary for salvation and I say you are wrong, your belief doesn't work for me, I then move on to the next "right pastor" who believes what I believe. That "right pastor" then, 6 months later, whom I thought was right reveals that all gay people go to hell and he says the bible backs up his belief. But I don't see that in the bible, he does. That CLEARLY does not work for me so I find a pastor that says baptism is necessary for salvation AND says that gay people go to heaven also. Finally....the "right pastor", someone who agrees with me. Then, 6 months later, he reveals that he is OK with abortion. Oh boy...time to find another pastor that is "right"....here I go again. Looking for another Church....looking for another pastor.

That is your theory in a nutshell. Right?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Curious Mary

well, there you are portraying more a fence sitter's path who "pastor shops," or even maybe one's walk when they are going on meat, so to speak, and actually getting their own opinions, as opposed to a babe who has none yet, and needs the Right Pastor, maybe. But even on meat one should have a congregation/peer group to keep them accountable imo.

i never agreed with everything any of my pastor's believed, but i still respected them, even on leaving. Dunno how common that is though

 

[bbyrd009]

Hold on here. Before we go further.....Are you saying that souls DON'T go to heaven or hell?

Confused Mary

after death? correct, that is what i am saying. The kingdom of heaven is right beside you, or within you, right now, and Gehenna is on earth. Or else how can Samuel (accepted by God) be right in what he told Saul (rejected by God)?

15“Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up? ” Samuel asked Saul. “I’m in serious trouble,” replied Saul. “The Philistines are fighting against me and God has turned away from me. He doesn’t answer me anymore,  either through the prophets or in dreams. So I’ve called on you to tell me what I should do.”
16Samuel answered, “Since the LORD has turned away from you and has become your enemy, why are you asking me?
17The LORD has done s exactly what He said through me: The LORD has torn the kingship out of your hand and given it to your neighbor David. 
18You did not obey the LORD and did not carry out His burning anger against Amalek;  therefore the LORD has done this to you today.
19The LORD will also hand Israel over to the Philistines along with you. Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me,  and the LORD will hand Israel’s army over to the Philistines.”

technically i would say that i do not know what will become of me, as Scripture states; but Hades' (a Greek god, lol; being referenced in Scripture. Should be a clue) mythology has no concept of punishment, and Gehenna is on earth, not in the afterlife.

So it can be argued that a whole bunch of understandings and assumptions have been scribed together with some Norse mythology--on top of the Greek mythology--to bring you the English "hell," which go ask a Jew where hell is and they are going to laugh or whatever. We invented hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

You disagree with logic?

Curious Mary

2+2=4 ok, but logic will not work with Scripture, unless you seek division. Scripture was written by masters of Dialectic thinking, and you cannot understand them with logic. I mean, here;

"Provide for your family"
"Don't work for food"

give me your logical understanding of these Scriptures

 

[Marymog]

well, there you are portraying more a fence sitter's path who "pastor shops," or even maybe one's walk when they are going on meat, so to speak, and actually getting their own opinions, as opposed to a babe who has none yet, and needs the Right Pastor, maybe. But even on meat one should have a congregation/peer group to keep them accountable imo.

i never agreed with everything any of my pastor's believed, but i still respected them, even on leaving. Dunno how common that is though

Dear sir,

You have me so confused I don't understand what you are saying. You said, when you have learned it (from a Pastor), you should hear the call to go find your next "Right Pastor". You also said "one should do what works for them". You said I should listen to my heart. Listen to Pastor X (Benny Hinn) and when you have learned it from him, you should hear the call to go find your next Right Pastor.

That is called Pastor shopping. Finding someone who preaches what I believe. That is not a "fence sitter". That action is searching for someone who preaches what I believe. That makes me RIGHT and everyone else WRONG. Once I decide a pastor is wrong, I move to the next pastor. That is not fence sitting. Do you know the definition of fence sitting?

You have me so confused. I sincerely do not understand what you are saying. I don't even understand what you believe. You stated you never agreed with everything any of your pastor's believed, but you still respected them, even on leaving. Why did you leave? Because they were wrong and you were right? How can all those pastors be wrong and you right?

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

my mom just asked me to hang a picture, and, knowing my penchant for hanging them on a diagonal or on the ceiling or whatever, told me to "do it right. Hang them at eye level."

So, i am 6'2", and she is 4'9". What is "eye level?"

 

[Marymog]

after death? correct, that is what i am saying. The kingdom of heaven is right beside you, or within you, right now, and Gehenna is on earth. Or else how can Samuel (accepted by God) be right in what he told Saul (rejected by God)?

15“Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up? ” Samuel asked Saul. “I’m in serious trouble,” replied Saul. “The Philistines are fighting against me and God has turned away from me. He doesn’t answer me anymore,  either through the prophets or in dreams. So I’ve called on you to tell me what I should do.”
16Samuel answered, “Since the LORD has turned away from you and has become your enemy, why are you asking me?
17The LORD has done s exactly what He said through me: The LORD has torn the kingship out of your hand and given it to your neighbor David. 
18You did not obey the LORD and did not carry out His burning anger against Amalek;  therefore the LORD has done this to you today.
19The LORD will also hand Israel over to the Philistines along with you. Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me,  and the LORD will hand Israel’s army over to the Philistines.”

technically i would say that i do not know what will become of me, as Scripture states; but Hades' (a Greek god, lol; being referenced in Scripture. Should be a clue) mythology has no concept of punishment, and Gehenna is on earth, not in the afterlife.

So it can be argued that a whole bunch of understandings and assumptions have been scribed together with some Norse mythology--on top of the Greek mythology--to bring you the English "hell," which go ask a Jew where hell is and they are going to laugh or whatever. We invented hell.

Thank you.