Sola scriptura?

[amigo de christo]

yours is the another gospel!
We were here first!

There were wolves within even the first church at its beginnings.
The answer is not who was here FIRST , the answer is LEARN THY BIBLE , cause that JESUS and THOSE apostles , YEAH THEY KNEW TRUTH .
The CC has led many a person into the chambers of hell and of death . Even in the beginning of christendom
there were men crept in who desired the pre eminence and taught lies and falsehoods . IT grew into the CC and from her
was made the formation of yet another deadly form of christanity . YOU need to simply LEARN THE BIBLE .

 

[amigo de christo]

christ and his church are one and inseparable acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Christ and HIS CHURCH . AS in HIS CHURCH are ONE . The CC is not HIS CHURCH .
And i dont say that to be mean , I say it out of great love as i desire only good for your soul . LEARN THAT BIBLE well and flee the CC .

 

[atpollard]

Where does the church get this power and authority?

From burning those that disagree at the stake (leaving few to challenge the power-hungry leadership as it flaunts its medieval apostasy by selling the Papacy and Cardinals maintaining harems). Rome split the church twice ... excommunicating the Eastern Apostolic branch for refusing to become slaves of Rome in the 10th C and driving out Northern Europe with corruption and assassination of those demanding an end to the corruption in the 15th C.

God ever retains for Himself a remnant that will not bend a knee (Romans 11:4-5) and God builds for Himself a people from this remnant (John 6:44-45). Since you like OT parallels, look at the cycles under the Judges. Rome has become the new "whitewashed sepulchers" that Jesus spoke of in the NT (Matthew 23:27-28) ... honoring God with your lips even as your heart is far from Him (Matthew 15:8-9).

 

[atpollard]

acts 1:8 witnesses

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Act 1:8 [NASB95]

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."​

Acts 1:8 says NOTHING about Mary or her virginity.
It was a red herring.

The official acts of the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 553 refer to Mary as aeiparthenos (i.e. ever-virgin).

So 500 years later, long after anyone that knew Mary and the Apostles was dead (and would have stopped such nonsense talk) ... some people just made it up. This is why it is important to CHECK YOUR SOURCES!

 

[theefaith]

Not interested in your long laundry list of Scriptural Reverence’s...
I have looked up numerous times your Scriptural references and none say what you have claimed.
Not interested in your long laundry list of Quoted Scripture...
That none claim what you say.

Not interested in your deflection to generalization of the Apostles and subsequent teachers.

Am interested in YOUR claims about Mary....and ONE SINGLE APOSTLE’S QUOTE in their words, teaching what you claim.

* Mary ever virgin........What Apostle taught that? QUOTE him.
* Mary mother of God...What Apostle taught that? QUOTE him.

Your deflection and making long lists of irrelevant Scriptural References and irrelevant Scripture Quotes exacerbates your dishonesty...so much so, even your fellow Catholics do not comment in agreement with claims you make.

Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 is enough
Bound on earth bound in heaven

 

[theefaith]

Meaning ... I don't argue with people that think that the Apostles never died and are still walking the earth discussing decisions of the RCC.

Jesus words don’t mean anything to you? Matt 28:19-20 I am with you “apostles” until the end
Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Christ and church are one

Who are these eleven?

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

 

[theefaith]

There were wolves within even the first church at its beginnings.
The answer is not who was here FIRST , the answer is LEARN THY BIBLE , cause that JESUS and THOSE apostles , YEAH THEY KNEW TRUTH .
The CC has led many a person into the chambers of hell and of death . Even in the beginning of christendom
there were men crept in who desired the pre eminence and taught lies and falsehoods . IT grew into the CC and from her
was made the formation of yet another deadly form of christanity . YOU need to simply LEARN THE BIBLE .

first one and only!

only Christ has authority to found a church all others are heretical sects the tradition of men!
Matt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

 

[theefaith]

Christ and HIS CHURCH . AS in HIS CHURCH are ONE . The CC is not HIS CHURCH .
And i dont say that to be mean , I say it out of great love as i desire only good for your soul . LEARN THAT BIBLE well and flee the CC .

what sect do you pretend to worship with?

 

[theefaith]

From burning those that disagree at the stake (leaving few to challenge the power-hungry leadership as it flaunts its medieval apostasy by selling the Papacy and Cardinals maintaining harems). Rome split the church twice ... excommunicating the Eastern Apostolic branch for refusing to become slaves of Rome in the 10th C and driving out Northern Europe with corruption and assassination of those demanding an end to the corruption in the 15th C.

God ever retains for Himself a remnant that will not bend a knee (Romans 11:4-5) and God builds for Himself a people from this remnant (John 6:44-45). Since you like OT parallels, look at the cycles under the Judges. Rome has become the new "whitewashed sepulchers" that Jesus spoke of in the NT (Matthew 23:27-28) ... honoring God with your lips even as your heart is far from Him (Matthew 15:8-9).

medieval apostasy????

Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Perpetual virgin
553 & 649
Isa 7:14

hardly the Middle Ages
Early church I would think

 

[theefaith]

Act 1:8 [NASB95]

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."​

Acts 1:8 says NOTHING about Mary or her virginity.
It was a red herring.



So 500 years later, long after anyone that knew Mary and the Apostles was dead (and would have stopped such nonsense talk) ... some people just made it up. This is why it is important to CHECK YOUR SOURCES!

the virgin one true church church is eternal and cannot conform to any age

 

[Taken]

acts 1:8 witnesses

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Dogma

The official acts of the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 553 refer to Mary as aeiparthenos (i.e. ever-virgin). For example, an anathema against the 'three chapters' condemns those who deny:
that nativity of these latter days when the Word of God came down from the heavens and was made flesh of holy and glorious Mary, mother of God and ever-virgin, and was born from her ...

The Lateran Council of 649 convened by Pope Martin I also issued an important statement affirming Mary's lifelong virginity:
If anyone does not, according to the Holy Fathers, confess truly and properly that holy Mary, ever virgin and immaculate, is Mother of God, since in this latter age she conceived in true reality without human seed from the Holy Spirit, God the Word Himself, who before the ages was born of God the Father, and gave birth to Him without corruption, her virginity remaining equally inviolate after the birth, let him be condemned.

Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

holy apostles in council with the authority of Jesus Christ!

Thank you.
As suspected. Not one Apostle verifying the claims.
Catholic men making statements: whose own writings are used to verify their own Words.
No wonder Councils of Catholic men are so Against Scripture. It glaringly reveals their Fraud.

Too bad the true word of God does not verify such false claims.
And very sad, man are still falling for one of the greatest scams of all time.

Astounding.

 

[atpollard]

Jesus words don’t mean anything to you? Matt 28:19-20 I am with you “apostles” until the end
Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Christ and church are one

Who are these eleven?

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Mashugana.

 

[amigo de christo]

Lamb is in the building . WELL hands up and let the LORD be praised . The true faith once delivered to the saints
must be contended for .

 

[marksman]

they are supported in scripture and in Christ!
There can be no new doctrine!
Doctrine or truth is revealed by God and is immutable!

nothing added to!
Nothing taken away!
Nothing changed!

Authority of the Apostles!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!



1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Authority in what they teach and not in a person in an office!

Jesus is not our salvation: only what He taught?

Lk 2:30 Matt 16:16 Jesus in His person is our salvation, not only in what He taught!
Matt 16:13 not what do people say about what I teach, but whom do people say the I am!

The teaching of the successors of Moses not their person?

The successors of Moses sit in the seat of Moses Matt 23:1

Peters confession not Peters person? Matt 16:18

You give the keys to a person not to a confession!

Acts 1:26 they choose Mathias not the teaching of Mathias!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians or spiritual anarchy of the heretical fundamentalists!

The false roman catholic church has been adding and taking away things for years and I don't need 5,500 verses of scripture to tell you how.

 

[marksman]

yours is the another gospel!
We were here first!

You weren't there on the day of Pentecost. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine and his successors promoted progressively became a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Most Roman Catholic beliefs and practices regarding Mary are completely absent from the Bible. Where did those beliefs come from? The Roman Catholic view of Mary has far more in common with the Isis mother-goddess religion of Egypt than it does with anything taught in the New Testament. Interestingly, the first hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

The Lord’s Supper being consumption of the literal body and blood of Jesus is not taught in the Bible. The idea that bread and wine are miraculously transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus (transubstantiation) is not biblical. However, several ancient pagan religions, including Mithraism, which was very popular in the Roman Empire, had some form of “theophagy” (the eating of one’s god) as a ritualistic practice.

Roman Catholicism has “saints” one can pray to in order to gain a particular blessing. For example, Saint Gianna Beretta Molla is the patron saint of fertility. Francis of Assisi is the patron saint of animals. There are multiple patron saints of healing and comfort. Nowhere is even a hint of this taught in Scripture. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these and many other categories. Many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, and the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for cities as well.

The idea that the Roman bishop is the vicar of Christ, the supreme leader of the Christian Church, is utterly foreign to the Word of God. The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, again, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. After the western half of the Roman Empire collapsed, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus.

the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and church tradition. Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the idolatrous people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

 

[marksman]

And? What does that have to do with answering my question? Nothing.

His religion does not answer questions. All it does is lecture you to let you know that he is right and we are wrong.

 

[marksman]

So the first Christian in China is not a Christian because he heard the good news from a protestant missionary.

 

[theefaith]

So the first Christian in China is not a Christian because he heard the good news from a protestant missionary.

Catholic missionaries were the first to go to china and everywhere else!

 

[The Learner]

The Word of God is the standard for truth …. Without it… you have no standard to measure against ….in which case…. anything goes.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any one’s own interpretation.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


If I didn’t believe those scripture ….I wouldn’t be here….That and the fact that over the many years, the research I have done leave no doubt… that the precision and accuracy of this Word of God is not the works of man…

The problem in this thread is you can not seperate the five solas.

 

[Tommy Cool]

The problem in this thread is you can not seperate the five solas.

Did you want to eliminate one or some...?