Some Questions About Mary

[Raccoon1010]

There's a wikipedia article (Brothers of Jesus - Wikipedia) on the family of Jesus which might at least provide some genuine guidance for people, not that this matters at all regarding April's OP questions ;)

 

[Pearl]

There's a wikipedia article (Brothers of Jesus - Wikipedia) on the family of Jesus which might at least provide some genuine guidance for people, not that this matters at all regarding April's OP questions ;)

gotquestions.org also has a good explanation. Just type in, "Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?"

 

[Raccoon1010]

gotquestions.org also has a good explanation. Just type in, "Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?"

Thanks I wasn't aware there was a bible question database, I'll check it out in the future :)

 

[farouk]

gotquestions.org also has a good explanation. Just type in, "Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?"

@Pearl Seems like a useful resource...

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Seems like a useful resource...

It's very handy, specially for sticky arguments. But of course there are certain factions that would deem it untrue.

 

[farouk]

It's very handy, specially for sticky arguments. But of course there are certain factions that would deem it untrue.

@Pearl As always, good to back up the proposed answers with Scripture understood in context; but it sound like a useful resource, anyway.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@soul,.. again,.. NONE.

Here's a fairly easy explanation of the facts about the "Brethren" (Adelphoi) of Jesus.

FIRST of all - the Greek word for "Brother" (Adelphos(oi)) is used liberally in Scripture for MANY things such as uterine sibling, half-brother, step brother, cousin, uncle, friend, neighbor, fellow countryman, fellow believer, etc.
As a matter of fact - there are 244 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT.
- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

SECONDLY - nowhere are ANY of these named "brethren" of the Lord said to be the children of HIS mother, Mary.
As @soul already explained - they are the children of the other Mary standing near the cross with HIS mother Mary (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25). This Mary is said to be the "sister" (Adelphe) of Jesus's mother and the wife of Clopas. Now - "Clopas" is a Greek rendering of the Aramaic "Alphaeus". Alphaeus/Clopas is said to be the FATHER of these "named" brethren" of Jesus (James, Joses, Judas, etc.).

So - the question for anti-Catholics is:
WHERE do you get the idea that Mary (Jesus's Mother) had "other" children - when the weight of Scripture and language goes completely against this idea.??

 

[Enoch111]

So even the Reformers knew and acknowledged that the perpetual virginity of Mary is a truth rooted in both Scripture and Church history.

If we keep in mind that the Reformers were former Catholics, it is not hard to see why they would retain many Catholic ideas. But the Bible is perfectly clear that Mary was not a "perpetual virgin".

 

[farouk]

You don't come across as very coherent. I think perhaps you should be simple to address April's posts instead of grandiose in your language, which really isn't working for you BTW. Saying this as a friend :)

Suppositional adumbration vouchsafes complexities informed thoroughly by obfuscatory obscurities, with regressive consequent conceptualizing that curtails comprehensional communication.

Clear? :)

 

[farouk]

PS: The point is, Sometimes ppl can be as clear as mud...

 

[Raccoon1010]

Here's a fairly easy explanation of the facts about the "Brethren" (Adelphoi) of Jesus.

FIRST of all - the Greek word for "Brother" (Adelphos(oi)) is used liberally in Scripture for MANY things such as uterine sibling, half-brother, step brother, cousin, uncle, friend, neighbor, fellow countryman, fellow believer, etc.
As a matter of fact - there are 244 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT.
- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

SECONDLY - nowhere are ANY of these named "brethren" of the Lord said to be the children of HIS mother, Mary.
As @soul already explained - they are the children of the other Mary standing near the cross with HIS mother Mary (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25). This Mary is said to be the "sister" (Adelphe) of Jesus's mother and the wife of Clopas. Now - "Clopas" is a Greek rendering of the Aramaic "Alphaeus". Alphaeus/Clopas is said to be the FATHER of these "named" brethren" of Jesus (James, Joses, Judas, etc.).

So - the question for anti-Catholics is:
WHERE do you get the idea that Mary (Jesus's Mother) had "other" children - when the weight of Scripture and language goes completely against this idea.??

That's one interpretation. From the wiki article:

"Catholic, Assyrian, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Lutherans believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, as did the Protestant leaders Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, John Wesley and their respective movements; John Calvin believed it was possible Mary remained a virgin, but believed the scriptural evidence was inconclusive.[3] Those who hold this belief reject the claim that Jesus had biological siblings and maintain these brothers and sisters received this designation because of their close association with the nuclear family of Jesus, as either children of Joseph from a previous marriage, or as nephews of either Mary or Joseph."

 

[Raccoon1010]

Suppositional adumbration vouchsafes complexities informed thoroughly by obfuscatory obscurities, with regressive consequent conceptualizing that curtails comprehensional communication.

Clear? :)

I liked that :) It reminding me of someone's post earlier. About as coherent.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's one interpretation. From the wiki article:

"Catholic, Assyrian, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Lutherans believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, as did the Protestant leaders Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, John Wesley and their respective movements; John Calvin believed it was possible Mary remained a virgin, but believed the scriptural evidence was inconclusive.[3] Those who hold this belief reject the claim that Jesus had biological siblings and maintain these brothers and sisters received this designation because of their close association with the nuclear family of Jesus, as either children of Joseph from a previous marriage, or as nephews of either Mary or Joseph."

What on EARTH does this have to do with the Scriptural and linguistic evidence I presented?
I presented FACTUAL and statistical proof - and YOU gave me opinions.

If that is your way of admitting that you don't have any actual evidence - just say so . . .

 

[Raccoon1010]

You are not answering "again", rather for the first time. Additionally, to claim there is not one part of the quote above you understand is false, as is your claim you do not understand big words, because you have used various words in the quote, as well as big words such as "layman's terms".

Now you're trolling, stop reposting the post, and leave it in the que, you're disrupting Aprils thread!

 

[Raccoon1010]

What on EARTH does this have to do with the Scriptural and linguistic evidence I presented?
I presented FACTUAL and statistical proof - and YOU gave me opinions.

If that is your way of admitting that you don't have any actual evidence - just say so . . .

Well, if I take the bible as literal in interpretation first and foremost, then Jesus had brothers and sisters. But if I attempt to say the word brother is meant some other way, then yes I would get your interpretation. The problem with a lot of the crackpots on these forums, is they like to play interpreter with the original bible text. But Galatians 1:19 is damning to other interpretations that say Jesus had no brothers or sisters, I mean honestly, why point out that James was not only an Apostle but also Jesus' brother?

Galatians 1:19

"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl As always, good to back up the proposed answers with Scripture understood in context; but it sound like a useful resource, anyway.

Give it a try.

 

[April_Rose]

Here's a fairly easy explanation of the facts about the "Brethren" (Adelphoi) of Jesus.

FIRST of all - the Greek word for "Brother" (Adelphos(oi)) is used liberally in Scripture for MANY things such as uterine sibling, half-brother, step brother, cousin, uncle, friend, neighbor, fellow countryman, fellow believer, etc.
As a matter of fact - there are 244 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT.
- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

SECONDLY - nowhere are ANY of these named "brethren" of the Lord said to be the children of HIS mother, Mary.
As @soul already explained - they are the children of the other Mary standing near the cross with HIS mother Mary (Matt. 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25). This Mary is said to be the "sister" (Adelphe) of Jesus's mother and the wife of Clopas. Now - "Clopas" is a Greek rendering of the Aramaic "Alphaeus". Alphaeus/Clopas is said to be the FATHER of these "named" brethren" of Jesus (James, Joses, Judas, etc.).

So - the question for anti-Catholics is:
WHERE do you get the idea that Mary (Jesus's Mother) had "other" children - when the weight of Scripture and language goes completely against this idea.??

That's easy enough to understand?? :

Now you're trolling, stop reposting the post, and leave it in the que, you're disrupting Aprils thread!

I don't see the message you quoted but thanks for standing up for me. (My guess is that it was deleted.)

 

[farouk]

Give it a try.

@Pearl I looked; I see they have several answers to questions about Mary...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, if I take the bible as literal in interpretation first and foremost, then Jesus had brothers and sisters. But if I attempt to say the word brother is meant some other way, then yes I would get your interpretation. The problem with a lot of the crackpots on these forums, is they like to play interpreter with the original bible text. But Galatians 1:19 is damning to other interpretations that say Jesus had no brothers or sisters, I mean honestly, why point out that James was not only an Apostle but also Jesus' brother?

Galatians 1:19

"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

So - you're a Biblical literalist?
Do you believe that the sun "rises" and "sets" as described in Psalm 113:3 - or do you believe that the earth revolves around the sun?

Do you NOT understand that the Bible is NOT to be taken in a wooden, literal sense in ALL things?
Do you believe that the 120 "BRETHREN" in Acts 1:15 were literal uterine siblings - or were they simply fellow believers??

 

[BreadOfLife]

But Galatians 1:19 is damning to other interpretations that say Jesus had no brothers or sisters, I mean honestly, why point out that James was not only an Apostle but also Jesus' brother?
Galatians 1:19
"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

What's wrong with Paul pointing out the fact that James was related to Jesus??
According to the Scriptures I showed you, James WAS related to Jesus - because his mother was a relative of the mother of Jesus.