Something Changed Between Then and Now

[marks]

Continuing a discussion from . . . Being filled vs being baptized with the Spirit

My thoughts and I have no ready scriptures to support but thought everyone shared (can dig up scripture if needed) is that Gods plan from start to finish meaning the new testament church his kingdom to come was to bring all mankind unto himself (both Jew and gentile) and Jesus was sent to complete the plan.

For example, we don't offer sacrifices any longer. We don't tithe to the Levites. These were part of the previous time, correct? Not part of today's worship of God?

This is why I suggest when studying baptism in the Bible to take special note of what is said exactly, and by whom, to whom. This is why we are not all building arks, we know that God told Moses to build the ark, not us, which is good, because I don't have that much gold, no where near that much! Only my wedding ring, and a single Krugerand. But seriously, we see instructions which were meant for others and not for us. So then is it possible that this is one of those? This is why I suggest that particular study.

I feel that the bible is clear we all enter the kingdom the very same way as the 300 that God added to the church on the day of Pentecost. I really cannot see any other way taught to enter into God's kingdom so sorry but that's the way I see it . I am looking at all you have to say but still ..........?

We do, by faith in Christ, certainly!

Do you see in Scripture this time after Jesus' resurrection that He may have returned had Israel received Him? And do you also see in Scripture that this time ended?

Acts 3:19-21 LITV
19) Therefore, repent, and convert, for the blotting out of your sins, so that times of refreshing may come from the face of the Lord,
20) and that He may send forth the One before proclaimed to you, Jesus Christ,
21) whom Heaven truly needs to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age past.

Is it possible, in your understanding, that Jesus could have returned in those days?

Acts 28:23-29 KJV
23) And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24) And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26) Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27) For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29) And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Abraham and I trust the same God. Only, what He told Abraham was that he'd have innumerable children, but what He told me was that Jesus is my Risen Master.

Is that two different Gospels? I don't see it that we. God has shown that He justifies us as we believe what He tells us. Though what He has told us has been different at different times. None the less, it is always His grace, when we believe.
And we are all His people, whom He has saved in His grace.

Let me ask you this. I believe Jesus will return from heaven to earth, to establish a kingdom on this earth, which He will rule from His throne in Jerusalem. Do you see the same?

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Continuing a discussion from . . . Being filled vs being baptized with the Spirit


For example, we don't offer sacrifices any longer. We don't tithe to the Levites. These were part of the previous time, correct? Not part of today's worship of God?

This is why I suggest when studying baptism in the Bible to take special note of what is said exactly, and by whom, to whom. This is why we are not all building arks, we know that God told Moses to build the ark, not us, which is good, because I don't have that much gold, no where near that much! Only my wedding ring, and a single Krugerand. But seriously, we see instructions which were meant for others and not for us. So then is it possible that this is one of those? This is why I suggest that particular study.

We do, by faith in Christ, certainly!

Do you see in Scripture this time after Jesus' resurrection that He may have returned had Israel received Him? And do you also see in Scripture that this time ended?

Acts 3:19-21 LITV
19) Therefore, repent, and convert, for the blotting out of your sins, so that times of refreshing may come from the face of the Lord,
20) and that He may send forth the One before proclaimed to you, Jesus Christ,
21) whom Heaven truly needs to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age past.

Is it possible, in your understanding, that Jesus could have returned in those days?

Acts 28:23-29 KJV
23) And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24) And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26) Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27) For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29) And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Abraham and I trust the same God. Only, what He told Abraham was that he'd have innumerable children, but what He told me was that Jesus is my Risen Master.

Is that two different Gospels? I don't see it that we. God has shown that He justifies us as we believe what He tells us. Though what He has told us has been different at different times. None the less, it is always His grace, when we believe.
And we are all His people, whom He has saved in His grace.

Let me ask you this. I believe Jesus will return from heaven to earth, to establish a kingdom on this earth, which He will rule from His throne in Jerusalem. Do you see the same?

Much love!

For example, we don't offer sacrifices any longer. We don't tithe to the Levites. These were part of the previous time, correct? Not part of today's worship of God?

No why? Because this is way before the gospel of Christ but was pointing to the cross. Even here God used this in place of the cross until the cross was put into play (sorry for the poor choice of words) the cross was the final play now we are all under the cross from Acts 2 forward. same gospel just in early form.

This is why I suggest when studying baptism in the Bible to take special note of what is said exactly, and by whom, to whom.

Yes and this is why I try to get us to understand that the baptisms you talk of in the old testament are not the same as the one God initiated in the new testament. The baptisms God created John the baptist to preach is a totally new teaching than that of the old for the one of John was for the remission of sin but that was not the case of the ones in the old testament.
And we then start with this new teaching and follow it through to get the truth of what is being said about it.

Do you see in Scripture this time after Jesus' resurrection that He may have returned had Israel received Him? And do you also see in Scripture that this time ended?

Acts 3:19-21 LITV
19) Therefore, repent, and convert, for the blotting out of your sins, so that times of refreshing may come from the face of the Lord,
20) and that He may send forth the One before proclaimed to you, Jesus Christ,
21) whom Heaven truly needs to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke through the mouth of all His holy prophets from the age past.

Is it possible, in your understanding, that Jesus could have returned in those days?

I will have to break this down in verse 19 I think it is a repeat of Acts 2:38 but in the rest I feel it is talking about the end times and they have not come yet and are to hard to explains so admittedly I do not put much effort into it but just try to be ready for that day because Jesus himself said it is not for us to know for even he himself does not know but tells us to be ready as if it was tomorrow.

] Is that two different Gospels? I don't see it that we. God has shown that He justifies us as we believe what He tells us. Though what He has told us has been different at different times. None the less, it is always His grace, when we believe.
And we are all His people, whom He has saved in His grace.

No as I have been saying you are correct it is not two different gospels and we are rightly dividing but once we get to Acts we are done dividing because from Acts 2 to today is the gospel of Christ preached to the Jews first and also to the gentiles (Greeks ) we are grafted into the Jews by the same gospel the gospel that the Jews rejected is the same gospel that we gentiles are accepting and being added into the kingdom of God.

 

[marks]

No why? Because this is way before the gospel of Christ but was pointing to the cross. Even here God used this in place of the cross until the cross was put into play (sorry for the poor choice of words) the cross was the final play now we are all under the cross from Acts 2 forward. same gospel just in early form.



Yes and this is why I try to get us to understand that the baptisms you talk of in the old testament are not the same as the one God initiated in the new testament. The baptisms God created John the baptist to preach is a totally new teaching than that of the old for the one of John was for the remission of sin but that was not the case of the ones in the old testament.
And we then start with this new teaching and follow it through to get the truth of what is being said about it.



I will have to break this down in verse 19 I think it is a repeat of Acts 2:38 but in the rest I feel it is talking about the end times and they have not come yet and are to hard to explains so admittedly I do not put much effort into it but just try to be ready for that day because Jesus himself said it is not for us to know for even he himself does not know but tells us to be ready as if it was tomorrow.


No as I have been saying you are correct it is not two different gospels and we are rightly dividing but once we get to Acts we are done dividing because from Acts 2 to today is the gospel of Christ preached to the Jews first and also to the gentiles (Greeks ) we are grafted into the Jews by the same gospel the gospel that the Jews rejected is the same gospel that we gentiles are accepting and being added into the kingdom of God.

Talk to me about this part:

Acts 3:17-21 KJV
17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

What does this part mean to you?

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Same as he preached in Acts 2 he preached Christ crucified and likewise preached repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins (be converted) (that your sins may be blotted out) and you shall receive the gift of the holy ghost (when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Same sermon he gave them as he gave on the day of Pentecost

20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,

I feel it is talking about the end times and they have not come yet and are to hard to explains so admittedly I do not put much effort into it but just try to be ready for that day because Jesus himself said it is not for us to know for even he himself does not know but tells us to be ready as if it was tomorrow.

OK I will keep answering this in this manner for I am not sure what you are wanting me to see I must have my blinders on so please take the wheel and show me what are are trying to show me

 

[Ritajanice]

Online commentary.

The sinful nature is such it must die, and a new nature disposed toward God's glory replaces it, and in it we may enjoy fellowship with God. The struggle against sin remains. But a repentant soul no longer aims to justify his sinful nature, rather to die to it.

My words...Dying daily to the flesh...is Life giving and Life saving...I wish God had revealed that to my Spirit years ago....

The flesh profits absolutely NOTHING....but the Spirit is the giver of life and freedom...and it’s all in Christ..we must be HUNGRY for this freedom...it must come from the heart..

​

◄ 2 Corinthians 3:17 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. New Living Translation For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom

John 6:63-69​

John 6:63-69 NIV​

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

◄ Matthew 10:39 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. New Living Translation If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it. English Standard Version Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Berean Standard Bible Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

Sorry Marks...I’m rambling...

 

[Godslittleservant]

Coffman's Commentaries on the BibleVerse
Acts 3:20
20 And that he may send the Christ who hath been appointed for you, even Jesus, whom the heavens must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of his holy prophets that have been of old.

Whereas in Acts 2:38 Peter had promised that remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit would follow their obeying the gospel, there is here assigned another consequence, namely, that (God) may send the Christ, etc. Christ had already come and completed the work of his First Advent, making this a reference to the Second Coming, which in this verse is promised as an event that would be hastened by the people obeying the gospel, indicating, as McGarvey said, that:

A certain amount of work in the saving of men was to be accomplished before his coming. This is indicated by the qualifying remark, "whom the heavens must receive until the restoration of all things whereof God spake by the mouth of his holy prophets."16

There is a definite hint here that Christ's Second Advent will not appear until a certain number of souls have been redeemed; and, that being true, one of the reasons for the severe weeping of Jesus over the fate of Jerusalem due to their rejecting him is evident. IF the Jews had received Christ, there can be no doubt that Christianity would have been the choice of far greater numbers of men, and God's purpose could have been realized much sooner; and Peter definitely says as much right here. The tragic rejection of Israel, however, had the effect of extending the long agony of mankind, vastly increasing the numbers of men who would be born, and thus fulfilling the curse upon Eve that God would "multiply thy sorrow and thy conception" (Genesis 3:16). Thus, the human race blew its second chance in Israel's rejection of the Christ, the same being a disaster for humanity, fully comparable to the original debacle in Eden. Here, Peter pleaded with the people to obey the gospel that God might send the Christ, etc., in his Second Advent.

Whom the heavens must receive ... means that Jesus will not appear again until a certain time future, at which time "the restoration of all things," in one sense, shall have been completed, and to be followed by certain other restorations. Here again one thinks of the primary and secondary arches of the rainbow, as so often in prophecy.

Until the times of the restoration of all things ... The primary and immediate thing in view here is the accomplishment of all those things which had been prophesied by the Old Testament prophets, Acts 3:21b being a qualifier of the things to be restored; and, concerning those things, the Second Advent will be at the end, not the beginning of the restoration. The premillennial views are not supported by this text. Christ explained that John the Baptist's coming to "restore all things" was fully accomplished (Matthew 17:11,12); and men "knew him not." Also, none of the outlandish things the Jews thought would happen when Elijah "restored all things" ever took place. It is, in all probability, certain that the "restoration of all things," as taught by the prophets, is now going on under the reign of Christ, and that all shall be accomplished without the majority of mankind ever being in the slightest degree aware of it. Jesus himself made the work and the events of John's ministry, in certain particulars, typical of his own. Just as John was killed, so would Jesus be crucified, etc.

Despite this, there is the definite suggestion in places like this of a further restoration of "all things," following the judgment. As Dummelow believed: "It means the restoration of the whole universe to its original and planned perfection ... as in the `new heavens and the new earth'" (2 Peter 3:13).17

 

[Godslittleservant]

That is kinda what I understand it was easier to cut and pasted than to type sorry.

 

[marks]

Same as he preached in Acts 2 he preached Christ crucified and likewise preached repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins (be converted) (that your sins may be blotted out) and you shall receive the gift of the holy ghost (when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Same sermon he gave them as he gave on the day of Pentecost

20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,

I feel it is talking about the end times and they have not come yet and are to hard to explains so admittedly I do not put much effort into it but just try to be ready for that day because Jesus himself said it is not for us to know for even he himself does not know but tells us to be ready as if it was tomorrow.

OK I will keep answering this in this manner for I am not sure what you are wanting me to see I must have my blinders on so please take the wheel and show me what are are trying to show me

Had they converted - on a national level, particularly the leadership of the people - Jesus would have returned then. But they didn't and He didn't, and instead of the millennial kingdom beginning then, it will begin sometime in the future.

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Had they converted - on a national level, particularly the leadership of the people - Jesus would have returned then. But they didn't and He didn't, and instead of the millennial kingdom beginning then, it will begin sometime in the future.

Much love!

I thought that might be somewhat that you were trying to get but now we have to study the kingdom to come it did come we are in the kingdom it is a spiritual kingdom. To me the passage is saying that God is seeking a spiritual kingdom that will be taken to heaven at the completion of the restoration he has started in Christ. He is restoring his people unto him and at some point will take them to the mansion in the sky but I am quite sure it is not an earthly kingdom because scriptures say that was what the Jews were thinking and Jesus told them it was spiritual he was talking about.

 

[marks]

I am quite sure it is not an earthly kingdom because scriptures say that was what the Jews were thinking and Jesus told them it was spiritual he was talking about.

What passage? I don't recall something saying specifically that.

Acts 1:6-9 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

There is this place, where they ask if its time, and Jesus replies that's up to the Father, it's not for you to know when it will be.

He could have said that it wouldn't be like you think, but instead He just said the timing isn't for you to know, as if it's real.

Ezekiel, Isaiah, Joel, John, have all prophesied the Lord's kingdom on this this earth. David said that man was made to live on the earth.

Matthew 19:27-28 KJV
27) Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Zechariah 14:6-11 KJV
6) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7) But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11) And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

There are many of these kinds of prophecies.

Much love!

 

[marks]

we are grafted into the Jews by the same gospel the gospel that the Jews rejected is the same gospel that we gentiles are accepting and being added into the kingdom of God.

Although Paul wrote that there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ.

Jews, are natural branches, gentiles are wild branches, but Jews are not the tree, I think the tree is Abraham, myself.

Do you believe the Church is "spiritual Israel"? Do you believe that God will regather national Israel when Jesus comes in glory, to live in their promised land? Do you believe that the promises made in the OT to national Israel will be kept? I do.

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Yes I believe that the church is the "spiritual Israel" and we are in the time waiting for the fullness of the gentiles but I think future conversion of secular Israel is neither affirmed in Scripture nor denied as possible.

 

[Godslittleservant]

I think the tree is Abraham, myself.

I think scripture makes it clear the tree is the old Israel (the Jews) Gods chosen people to bring about the plan of salvation and the now is the new spiritual Israel in which he had planned along. I am not not good at explaining my thoughts on this will have to practice public speaking my thoughts on this but this is a glance at where I am on this do not talk much about end time teaching because it is to controversial to me will have to get down and study this but always thought that it did not matter because God did not give a lot of detail because only he knows when this all plays out all I had to do was be ready for his coming but I also need to defend the truth so I must look into this more.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Still gathering thoughts just putting them to as I accumulate them

And upon the Israel of God ... It is surprising that any could misunderstand this, as if Paul were, in any manner, invoking a blessing upon racial Jews. "Israel of God," in the true sense, with Paul, was never racial Israel, but the spiritual Israel. See Romans 2:28,29; Romans 4:13-16 and Romans 9:6-8. This meaning of "spiritual Israel," of course, included all of every race, including Jews, who accepted Christ. "Israel of God," according to Wesley, means "the church of God, which consists of all those, and only those, of every nation and kindred, who walk by this rule."28

John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."