Something is very, very wrong.

[Episkopos]

...and whose wife will she be in the resurrection....?

 

[williemac]

This is from the OP:
“I stand as a Christian without a religion, and come under attack from all. Think about that. You are divided among yourselves, and can not even agree on the littlest of things, but you join together to attack one person who believes in God, but not religion?”

I stand as a Christian who has not forsaken the assembling together with other members of the body of Christ. But I must add that we are not to hang our unity on doctrinal agreement. Love happens to be the bond of unity. I can disagree with someone I am committed to love.

 

[domenic]

I stand as a Christian who has not forsaken the assembling together with other members of the body of Christ. But I must add that we are not to hang our unity on doctrinal agreement. Love happens to be the bond of unity. I can disagree with someone I am committed to love.

Humans will always disagree, one with the other, but when you follow man made doctrines and teach them as from God, you put the life of people in danger of the judgment of death from God. That is murder.
This is not a game of, "My religion is right, and you are wrong." Christians seek truth. It is not who is right, it is what does our God say is right..

 

[aspen]

nah, i think you ultimately want people to only agree with you domenic - which you conviniently call gods true and therefore unity. i call your method what it is - private interpretattion

 

[domenic]

nah, i think you ultimately want people to only agree with you domenic - which you conviniently call gods true and therefore unity. i call your method what it is - private interpretation

You should go off alone, and pray God does not judge you, as you judge others. As to you my task is done.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear D,

When you suddenly see things correctly you want the whole world to see what you see. When you get revelation what you understand is crystal clear and sometimes it is difficult and frustrating when others don't "get it." It is like someone who has quit smoking becoming critical of those who still do.

It is not worth tying yourself up into a knot about. It will just make your frustrated and will tend to make you critical of others. let God continue to lead and guide you but also give others enough room to find out for themselves too. Be a witness to others of what God is showing you, plant the seed, and give it time to grow. Farmers learn patience because they cannot force their crops to grow all they can do is tend to them and help them mature.

When you start to wake up it is difficult. Give others a chance to do the same.

Blessings,

Justin

P.S. when I say that doctrine can save no one I do not mean that it is not important to know and understand the truth. However, the fact of the matter is that Jesus said,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The important thing is that we do the will of God. That is not a doctrine but an action. Many hold very mixed up views but they still, when it comes right down to it, do the will of their Father. While others argue about docrine be a doer of the word and hear God's voice for yourself. Holding the correct doctrine is not what commends you to God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The important thing is that we do the will of God. That is not a doctrine but an action. Many hold very mixed up views but they still, when it comes right down to it, do the will of their Father. While others argue about docrine be a doer of the word and hear God's voice for yourself. Holding the correct doctrine is not what commends you to God.

That is correct, but not entirely. I can point you to scripture (that I'm sure you know yourself) that admonishes us to hold fast what we have received. That implies more than faith because faith cannot do its full work apart from understanding, knowledge and wisdom. Just as there are those who go astray because they have much doctrine, but little to no obedience, so also are those who go astray because they eschew doctrine for the sake of experience, and are deceived by their own heart or another spirit.

 

[domenic]

Dear D,

When you suddenly see things correctly you want the whole world to see what you see. When you get revelation what you understand is crystal clear and sometimes it is difficult and frustrating when others don't "get it." It is like someone who has quit smoking becoming critical of those who still do.

It is not worth tying yourself up into a knot about. It will just make your frustrated and will tend to make you critical of others. let God continue to lead and guide you but also give others enough room to find out for themselves too. Be a witness to others of what God is showing you, plant the seed, and give it time to grow. Farmers learn patience because they cannot force their crops to grow all they can do is tend to them and help them mature.

When you start to wake up it is difficult. Give others a chance to do the same.

Blessings,

Justin

P.S. when I say that doctrine can save no one I do not mean that it is not important to know and understand the truth. However, the fact of the matter is that Jesus said,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The important thing is that we do the will of God. That is not a doctrine but an action. Many hold very mixed up views but they still, when it comes right down to it, do the will of their Father. While others argue about docrine be a doer of the word and hear God's voice for yourself. Holding the correct doctrine is not what commends you to God.

Thank you Justin,
When I water seed with a fire hose, it is my signature I have kicked the dust from my feet.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear C,

Well said.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Wormwood]

Domenic,
If you are going to post your beliefs in a Christian debate forum, you should not assume a martyr complex when people oppose your ideas. It's the nature of the forum. Christians can disagree with each other and still love each other. Many of Paul's epistles instruct Christians how to get along in the midst of differences of opinion. The Bible assumes we will not all agree on everything. Now, on with your comments...

Anybody on the forum I have addressed understands I am a Christian, and I claim no religion. Let me expand on that one point, “Of no religion.” If you agree our God is a God of order, and not a God of division, than something is wrong. If you further agree there are differences between religions, and our God is not a God of difference between his people, something is wrong. If the truth is different from religion to religion, and our God has one understanding for all his people, than something is very wrong. When Gods people in one religion views those in a different religion as dead in Gods eyes, truly there is something very, very wrong.

Christianity is a religion. If you are a Christian, you are claiming a religion. You are claiming to follow Christ rather than Buddha, Mohammed or other teacher. Yes God does condemn those who follow false religions. The Bible is pretty plain on this. Do you mean you claim no denomination? If this is what you mean, than this is a very different discussion. Yet even among some denominational differences, there are issues worth dividing over. Some "Christian" denominations reject the Bible as God's Word which others believe is a doctrinal issue worth dividing over. Some Christian denominations embrace the practice of homosexuality and some Christians believe this is an issue worth dividing over. By your rationale, the only real evil in Christianity is disunity. But at what cost must Christians remain unified? Paul told the Corinthians to "expel the immoral brother from among you." The issues are not as simplistic as you paint them.

There is only one creature who employs division, Satan. Our God is powerful. There is nothing he can not do. Why has he allowed division among his people?
I stand as a Christian without a religion, and come under attack from all. Think about that. You are divided among yourselves, and can not even agree on the littlest of things, but you join together to attack one person who believes in God, but not religion?

I belong to a "non-denominational" group, but even that is a bit of a misnomer. Every group can be categorized by particular views. Certainly you have particular views about the Bible, the person and work of Christ, the nature of humanity, the sovereignty of God, the atonement, and so forth. So while you can say all day long that you have no religion, you certainly have perspectives on these issues that classify you or indicate a "denomination" (which means simply to name something)...albeit an informal one. If you want to argue that these views don't really matter then I would have to disagree with you. They do matter. Maybe not all have eternal consequences but there is certainly are notable differences. Simply because I do not want my children under a teacher that will tell them they must be slain in the spirit and speak in tongues to prove they have been saved does not mean that my motives to keep them from such teaching are demonic. I can love a Pentecostal brother or sister with such views without putting myself or my family under that teaching.
Moreover, why is it that you are impervious to such division? You are disagreeing with people here regarding their disagreements. Is this not divisive on your part? Are you saying you embrace both Catholic doctrine and Protestant? Are you claiming that you agree with everyone on every doctrinal position or that you refuse to even hold a position? This argument does not even make sense in my opinion.


I understand people will defend what they believe in. I make the claim all religions are false. I am not 100% wrong. If I were to stand for your religion, and said, “All others are false,” you would stand with me. If all other religions are false, than I am only 10% wrong in my claim. The problem with this, who is to say which religion is the true religion? The others also believe they are the true religion. In that case, division does not go away, it grows bigger. Our God is not a God of division. That is a fact we all agree on. If there were no religion, would there be division? Why has God allowed Satan to make division among his people? Is it to separate the goats from the sheep? I don’t have an answer to that question. I do know whatever God allows is for a good reason. Something is wrong. Something is very, very wrong.

Again, I think you are confusing doctrinal disagreements with judgment and condemnation. Simply because different denominations have different views does not mean they condemn or believe other views are worthy of eternal destruction. In fact, one cannot really love if they cannot embrace another in spite of differences. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the denominational splits across Western Christianity, however, I think you are making this situation far more sinister than it actually is. I think it is a good thing to be passionately convinced of your position, as long as you can do it in love without passing judgment.


“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” (Romans 14:5, ESV)

 

[domenic]

Domenic,
If you are going to post your beliefs in a Christian debate forum, you should not assume a martyr complex when people oppose your ideas. It's the nature of the forum. Christians can disagree with each other and still love each other. Many of Paul's epistles instruct Christians how to get along in the midst of differences of opinion. The Bible assumes we will not all agree on everything. Now, on with your comments...

Anybody on the forum I have addressed understands I am a Christian, and I claim no religion. Let me expand on that one point, “Of no religion.” If you agree our God is a God of order, and not a God of division, than something is wrong. If you further agree there are differences between religions, and our God is not a God of difference between his people, something is wrong. If the truth is different from religion to religion, and our God has one understanding for all his people, than something is very wrong. When Gods people in one religion views those in a different religion as dead in Gods eyes, truly there is something very, very wrong.

Christianity is a religion. If you are a Christian, you are claiming a religion. You are claiming to follow Christ rather than Buddha, Mohammed or other teacher. Yes God does condemn those who follow false religions. The Bible is pretty plain on this. Do you mean you claim no denomination? If this is what you mean, than this is a very different discussion. Yet even among some denominational differences, there are issues worth dividing over. Some "Christian" denominations reject the Bible as God's Word which others believe is a doctrinal issue worth dividing over. Some Christian denominations embrace the practice of homosexuality and some Christians believe this is an issue worth dividing over. By your rationale, the only real evil in Christianity is disunity. But at what cost must Christians remain unified? Paul told the Corinthians to "expel the immoral brother from among you." The issues are not as simplistic as you paint them.

There is only one creature who employs division, Satan. Our God is powerful. There is nothing he can not do. Why has he allowed division among his people?
I stand as a Christian without a religion, and come under attack from all. Think about that. You are divided among yourselves, and can not even agree on the littlest of things, but you join together to attack one person who believes in God, but not religion?

I belong to a "non-denominational" group, but even that is a bit of a misnomer. Every group can be categorized by particular views. Certainly you have particular views about the Bible, the person and work of Christ, the nature of humanity, the sovereignty of God, the atonement, and so forth. So while you can say all day long that you have no religion, you certainly have perspectives on these issues that classify you or indicate a "denomination" (which means simply to name something)...albeit an informal one. If you want to argue that these views don't really matter then I would have to disagree with you. They do matter. Maybe not all have eternal consequences but there is certainly are notable differences. Simply because I do not want my children under a teacher that will tell them they must be slain in the spirit and speak in tongues to prove they have been saved does not mean that my motives to keep them from such teaching are demonic. I can love a Pentecostal brother or sister with such views without putting myself or my family under that teaching.
Moreover, why is it that you are impervious to such division? You are disagreeing with people here regarding their disagreements. Is this not divisive on your part? Are you saying you embrace both Catholic doctrine and Protestant? Are you claiming that you agree with everyone on every doctrinal position or that you refuse to even hold a position? This argument does not even make sense in my opinion.


I understand people will defend what they believe in. I make the claim all religions are false. I am not 100% wrong. If I were to stand for your religion, and said, “All others are false,” you would stand with me. If all other religions are false, than I am only 10% wrong in my claim. The problem with this, who is to say which religion is the true religion? The others also believe they are the true religion. In that case, division does not go away, it grows bigger. Our God is not a God of division. That is a fact we all agree on. If there were no religion, would there be division? Why has God allowed Satan to make division among his people? Is it to separate the goats from the sheep? I don’t have an answer to that question. I do know whatever God allows is for a good reason. Something is wrong. Something is very, very wrong.

Again, I think you are confusing doctrinal disagreements with judgment and condemnation. Simply because different denominations have different views does not mean they condemn or believe other views are worthy of eternal destruction. In fact, one cannot really love if they cannot embrace another in spite of differences. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the denominational splits across Western Christianity, however, I think you are making this situation far more sinister than it actually is. I think it is a good thing to be passionately convinced of your position, as long as you can do it in love without passing judgment.


“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” (Romans 14:5, ESV)

Wormwood,

Let me first thank you for giving me your time to write a very Christian post. Thank you very much. I will try to express my stand as a Christian.

I believe in God the Father, and his son, Jesus, who was the first born of all creation, and at present is our Lord. I believe Gods acting force, is what many call the Holy Sprit. I do not believe in the trinity.
Man was designed to live on Earth, and care for it for the Father. It is the reason I do not believe we go to Heave. I do not believe in a Hell of Fire.
I believe the resurrection will come when Jesus returns. I believe the Bible is Gods written word, and yes, I also believe some of it has been changed.
I do not believe in the cross. I believe Jesus died on a stake.
The major doctrines I believe make a religion false are, (these are major ones, not the many little ones)
Going to Heaven.
A Hell of Fire.
The cross.
False prophesies.
The Trinity.
To my understanding one or more of the above five doctrines are a mark of a false religion. I would never be a member of a group, (religion) that had one, or more of these doctrines.
I have look very hard at many religions over many years, and have never found a Christian (sic) religion that does not have one, or more of the above doctrines. It is why I claim not to be part of a religion. I do not believe all the other non-Christian religions are from God.
I do not believe overlooking (being a member of) any religion that has one, or more major false doctrines would find approval from God.
Thus I stand as a Christian, (follower of Jesus) without being a member of any religion.

Again, thank you for the Christian post.
Domenic

 

[Wormwood]

Domenic,

I see, so you are a Jehovah's Witness then. I must say such stances are highly unorthodox, and in my opinion, highly unbiblical. Allow me to deal with your objections, and if you would like, I can start a separate post dealing with the divinity of Christ and the teaching of Scripture on the subject since that is a much more lengthy topic.

1. I think it is a misnomer to suggest that the Watchtower Society is "not religion." It is its own denominational offshoot from Christian primitivism. The reason it is unaffiliated and not considered a denomination is because the majority of Christian groups and leaders consider it as a cult that holds to highly heretical teaching. It is not as if the Watchtower Society is a pure group off which many denominations broke. It is its own offshoot formed by the teachings and prophecies of Charles Taze Russell.

2. The idea that "we dont go to heaven" is an issue that JW's like to wave a banner over, but its really a misunderstanding of traditional Christian teaching. The idea of "heaven" is not so much a matter of a celestial location of believers, but is rather the concept of man dwelling with God. Historic Christianity believes in the recreation of the earth where humanity dwells in the presence of God. This is "heaven," not because it is located away from earth, but because wherever God dwells is often referred to as "heaven" among Christians.

3. Hell is a lengthy subject I dont have time to tackle. Suffice it to say that I dont believe Jesus is using hyperbole when he is speaking of eternal torment. While "fire" may be figurative to classify the horrific nature of that torment, it is not merely the cessation of existance as JW's believe.

4. Jesus was crucified on a cross. Although it doesnt really matter, fringe groups like JW's like to major in minors. Granted, the Greek word means "stake." However, historically if one follows the etymology of the word, they quickly find that in the first century, crucifixions were indeed on crosses, not stakes. Hundreds of years prior, people were impaled on stakes. The torture was altered over the centuries to maximize suffering of the victim. It is a historical fact that, by the time of Jesus, people were no longer impaled on stakes, but were crucified on crosses. So while the word used was still "stake" it had changed meaning. This happens all the time in language. For instance, a "buggy whip" used to be a whip for horses that pulled a buggy. Now its a term used for an antenna on a dune buggy. The context and era of a word or term is very significant. JW's have missed this big time.

5. False prophecies are the JW's MO. If any group has been guilty of a host of false predictions and prophecies, its the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their false prophecies are widely documented.

6. JW's like to argue that the "trinity" is not a biblical word. True, but neither is "theocratic kingdom" a popular term for JW's. The point is not whether or not a word is in the BIble, but if the concept is in the Bible. It most certainly is. Many OT passages that use the word for Yahweh or Jehovah are quoted by NT writers in reference to Jesus. John's Gospel explicited says the "Word was God" and I can address the Greek on this with you in another post if you like. The firstborn references are not indications of Jesus as a created being, but indicated prominence as an heir. Finally, the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because of his divine claims. He could have easily corrected this misunderstanding and said, "Wait, I'm not claiming to be God!" but he never did. Jesus also accepted worship, which is blasphemous unless he is divine.

Although you may claim to be a "follower of Jesus" it should be understood that your view of who Jesus is VERY different from historic Christianity. Thus, "Christian" would not be a very fitting term as it denotes one who embraces the doctrines of historic Christianity.

 

[domenic]

Domenic,

I see, so you are a Jehovah's Witness then. I must say such stances are highly unorthodox, and in my opinion, highly unbiblical. Allow me to deal with your objections, and if you would like, I can start a separate post dealing with the divinity of Christ and the teaching of Scripture on the subject since that is a much more lengthy topic.

1. I think it is a misnomer to suggest that the Watchtower Society is "not religion." It is its own denominational offshoot from Christian primitivism. The reason it is unaffiliated and not considered a denomination is because the majority of Christian groups and leaders consider it as a cult that holds to highly heretical teaching. It is not as if the Watchtower Society is a pure group off which many denominations broke. It is its own offshoot formed by the teachings and prophecies of Charles Taze Russell.

2. The idea that "we dont go to heaven" is an issue that JW's like to wave a banner over, but its really a misunderstanding of traditional Christian teaching. The idea of "heaven" is not so much a matter of a celestial location of believers, but is rather the concept of man dwelling with God. Historic Christianity believes in the recreation of the earth where humanity dwells in the presence of God. This is "heaven," not because it is located away from earth, but because wherever God dwells is often referred to as "heaven" among Christians.

3. Hell is a lengthy subject I dont have time to tackle. Suffice it to say that I dont believe Jesus is using hyperbole when he is speaking of eternal torment. While "fire" may be figurative to classify the horrific nature of that torment, it is not merely the cessation of existance as JW's believe.

4. Jesus was crucified on a cross. Although it doesnt really matter, fringe groups like JW's like to major in minors. Granted, the Greek word means "stake." However, historically if one follows the etymology of the word, they quickly find that in the first century, crucifixions were indeed on crosses, not stakes. Hundreds of years prior, people were impaled on stakes. The torture was altered over the centuries to maximize suffering of the victim. It is a historical fact that, by the time of Jesus, people were no longer impaled on stakes, but were crucified on crosses. So while the word used was still "stake" it had changed meaning. This happens all the time in language. For instance, a "buggy whip" used to be a whip for horses that pulled a buggy. Now its a term used for an antenna on a dune buggy. The context and era of a word or term is very significant. JW's have missed this big time.

5. False prophecies are the JW's MO. If any group has been guilty of a host of false predictions and prophecies, its the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their false prophecies are widely documented.

6. JW's like to argue that the "trinity" is not a biblical word. True, but neither is "theocratic kingdom" a popular term for JW's. The point is not whether or not a word is in the BIble, but if the concept is in the Bible. It most certainly is. Many OT passages that use the word for Yahweh or Jehovah are quoted by NT writers in reference to Jesus. John's Gospel explicited says the "Word was God" and I can address the Greek on this with you in another post if you like. The firstborn references are not indications of Jesus as a created being, but indicated prominence as an heir. Finally, the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because of his divine claims. He could have easily corrected this misunderstanding and said, "Wait, I'm not claiming to be God!" but he never did. Jesus also accepted worship, which is blasphemous unless he is divine.

Although you may claim to be a "follower of Jesus" it should be understood that your view of who Jesus is VERY different from historic Christianity. Thus, "Christian" would not be a very fitting term as it denotes one who embraces the doctrines of historic Christianity.

Again, thank you for you post. I was, and am not, a JW. After many years as a JW, I left it because of their False Prophecies. I was raised a Catholic. I left that long before I had even heard about the JW's.
I left many dear friends behind. The Jw's are not bad people. It is just as hard for them to leave their religion, as it would be for you.

Satan did not get control of the whole world by being stupid. He knows if he can get a person to follow a religion that has just one major doctrine, it’s like having a fish hook in their upper lip.
Satan has built many types of religions, and these have spin off into others. Something to tickle the ear of everybody.
The JW origination is a false religion, and yes, a cult. Have you ever wondered why all other religions get along, but, they all hate the JW’s? Satan is very smart. He gave the JW’s Bible truth. Yes you read me right. Look back, the JW’s started in 1877. They came on the scene after all the other religions were well established. Then he give the JW’s Bible truth. These Bible truths undermine the doctrines of all other religions…that is why they are hated by all religions. And here is the kicker to the story. All these other, well established religions would, and do, reject what the JW’s teach. Satan has most of the world rejecting Bible truth because this newcomer has attacked what they have believed as truth for hundreds of years. The JW’s don’t even know they are being used like this.
No I am not a JW, nor will I every again be one. Scriptures are not hard to understand. God has made them simple. I do believe God made man to want to worship…and this is what Satan Plays on. He also plays on the fact humans like to be with others who support what they believe, or like to do.
Most Christians spend most of their time learning about God. How much time do they spend learning about the one who wants them dead?
I know how Satan works. You can see it every where, even on this forum. Satan does not have a bag full of new tricks. He keeps using the same old ones…because they work.
One of his tricks that works well is sex. It was the first, and it’s still working.
Learn what you are up against. Ask our God to help you. I have told this to JW’s, and they have stopped talking to me. They think Satan has me, and I’m sure most of the members on this forum feel the same. Satan is using the JW’s to keep you away from Bible truth…and yes they are as your religion is, false.

 

[Wormwood]

domenic,

I am glad to hear you left the JW's. However, I cannot respond to your theories of Satan's activities and how he is using various groups for various purposes. This appears to be all conjecture and so there is nothing I can really say about it. The Mormons/Latter Day Saints would also claim that they have pure "Bible truth" and they are disowned by all Christian denominations. However, just because you belong to a unified group that claims to believe the Bible does not make it so. Being persecuted does not make you right. JW's are persecuted, Christians are persecuted, Mormans are persecuted, and I have no doubt that in various parts of the world Muslims and Hindus are persecuted by each other as well. So persecution or suffering does not guarantee one has the truth.

So, if you want to look at Scripture to determine "Bible truth" I would be happy to engage in that conversation with you. It would be helpful to me if you cite certain passages that you feel support your views so that we can together determine if this is "Bible truth" or not.

Actually pride was the first temptation of Satan. "You will be like God." And that pride is what causes so many to feel they have all the answers and all others are satanic, deceived or "false." I think we should both embrace some loving humility and search the Scriptures together as the noble Bereans in Acts. Certainly there are false religions and teachings we should beware of, but lets try to establish those views based on God's authority and not based on our own perceptions of how Satan is using those with whom we disagree. Let me know if you would like to explore the Bible's teaching on issues like the divinity of Jesus, the cross, heaven, hell or other ideas you feel to be false ideas held by Christians.

 

[domenic]

Wormwood, I am not looking for a Bible study, but if you are, I would agree to help you understand Gods word. Tell me, which of these false doctrines do you now follow?


Going to Heaven.
A Hell of Fire.
The cross.
False prophesies.
The Trinity.

 

[Wormwood]

I believe in "heaven" as in a new heavens and new earth where we will live in the presence of God.
I believe in the torment of hell (whether it is literal fire is irrelevant in my mind).
I believe Jesus was crucified on a cross (which I already gave you the historical validation of that...although it hardly matters)
I believe God is triune.

I have no idea what you are talking about with "false prophecies." Are you wanting to know if I believe in "false prophecies?" Is this a trick question?

I'd be happy to hear your views on these issues. Since I have studied these issues for many years, I am not really approaching this as someone uninformed who is seeking guidance which seems to be what you desire. However, I would be happy to listen to your ideas and present mine when I am in disagreement with you.

 

[domenic]

I believe in "heaven" as in a new heavens and new earth where we will live in the presence of God.
I believe in the torment of hell (whether it is literal fire is irrelevant in my mind).
I believe Jesus was crucified on a cross (which I already gave you the historical validation of that...although it hardly matters)
I believe God is triune.

I have no idea what you are talking about with "false prophecies." Are you wanting to know if I believe in "false prophecies?" Is this a trick question?

I'd be happy to hear your views on these issues. Since I have studied these issues for many years, I am not really approaching this as someone uninformed who is seeking guidance which seems to be what you desire. However, I would be happy to listen to your ideas and present mine when I am in disagreement with you.

No trick questions:

Lets take the first one; New Heaven, and a new Earth.

Plan A, B, C, or D?
I reason scripture by trying to prove them wrong. If they are true, they will prove out as such. I do this by asking questions. Some may seem silly, others over the top. Do you remember as a child you may have asked, “Why is the sky blue?” Myself, I do not recall any adult I asked this question give me a truthful answer. One may have replied, “Because God made it blue.” Not an answer that told me anything.
The first on the list of questions is Heaven. What I was asking was, “Do you believe you are going to Heaven?” Before I go on, I will tell you what I believe. “No I am not going to Heaven. If God gives me life, it will be on the new Earth as a caretaker of it for him.”
This is my reasoning;
God created man (and women) to multiply, and fill the Earth. Their duty was to care for the Earth, for Gods pleasure. True man would have the enjoyment of living on a beautiful Earth. I even believe in time, man would spread out too the stars, and they would also become gardens for Gods pleasure…cared for by the human family.
I know whatever God puts into motion, always works. He has never had a failure at anything he has done. Satan did get the first man and women to sin. This did not destroy Gods plan, nor even upset the time schedule for when it would be completed.
Because Satan got Adam, and the women to sin, God did not sit back and say, “Damn, that failed. Well, I’ll have to make a new plan. Lest see, hmmmm? Well I guess I’ll have the ones I like come to Heaven, I’ll find something for them to do up here. The ones I don’t want, I’ll be some kind of monster, and burn them alive in a Hell of Fire forever, hahahaha…won’t that be fun.
Gods plans always work. What he says always comes to pass…that is why we can trust him. His plan was never for man to go to Heaven. True he has taken some men to Heaven, and he has a good reason for that, but that is a different subject.
Here is just one simple scripture:

Psalms 37:11 “But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace”

Gods plan has not changed. When he destroyed man at the flood, he did not take anyone to Heaven. Lets suppose you are correct…God is going to take those he wants, and have them in Heaven. You pack your bags, ticket in hand, when the bus comes. The driver says, “Sorry, God changed his plan again… you know how he is. Hell nobody ever knows what he’s going to do next”
You ask the driver, “ What am I suppose to do?”
“Damn if I know,” replies the driver, “ I heard a rumor he’s getting rid of all the buses.”
Come on…if God ever changed what is put in motion…he could never be trusted. If he changed his plan, and was going to have those he likes in Heaven, and those he don’t rolling around in fire forever, Who the hell are the meek that will live here on earth?

 

[Wormwood]

The problem you are having here is with the term "heaven." Heaven does not mean "non-earth dwelling." Matthew refers almost fifty times to the "Kingdom of heaven." Heaven means the rule and reign of God. So when the rule and reign of God is manifested on earth, we call this "heaven." God is our "heavenly" Father not heavenly because he is not present in the world, but because he is above and beyond us. He is "from above" while we are "from below." Heaven has to do with exaltation while earth often in Scripture has to do with evil, darkness and rebellion. When the "kingdom of heaven" and the "heavenly Father" make their dwelling with us on earth, our bodies will be transformed into a "heavenly dwelling" (2 Cor. 5:2). So you see, you are making much fuss about nothing. The problem is not with the idea that we will live in "heaven" but your assumption that "heaven" means non-earth. This is not how Christians understand "heaven." Yes, we will live on a new earth, but that new earth will be "heavenly" because the Kingdom of heaven will be manifested as we dwell with the heavenly Father and live in heavenly dwellings. Basically it means the things above will transform the things here below and the lower things will be exalted to be heavenly things. That is "heaven" and that is where believers will dwell.

So, this point is basically more of a misunderstanding on your part than anything. Christians are not gnostics that believe in a non-material dwelling apart from physical creation. Christians of all denominations do and always have believed we will live in a perfected world where the Kingdom of heaven is manifested. This is why it is called "heaven." Next point.

 

[domenic]

The problem you are having here is with the term "heaven." Heaven does not mean "non-earth dwelling." Matthew refers almost fifty times to the "Kingdom of heaven." Heaven means the rule and reign of God. So when the rule and reign of God is manifested on earth, we call this "heaven." God is our "heavenly" Father not heavenly because he is not present in the world, but because he is above and beyond us. He is "from above" while we are "from below." Heaven has to do with exaltation while earth often in Scripture has to do with evil, darkness and rebellion. When the "kingdom of heaven" and the "heavenly Father" make their dwelling with us on earth, our bodies will be transformed into a "heavenly dwelling" (2 Cor. 5:2). So you see, you are making much fuss about nothing. The problem is not with the idea that we will live in "heaven" but your assumption that "heaven" means non-earth. This is not how Christians understand "heaven." Yes, we will live on a new earth, but that new earth will be "heavenly" because the Kingdom of heaven will be manifested as we dwell with the heavenly Father and live in heavenly dwellings. Basically it means the things above will transform the things here below and the lower things will be exalted to be heavenly things. That is "heaven" and that is where believers will dwell.

So, this point is basically more of a misunderstanding on your part than anything. Christians are not gnostics that believe in a non-material dwelling apart from physical creation. Christians of all denominations do and always have believed we will live in a perfected world where the Kingdom of heaven is manifested. This is why it is called "heaven." Next point.

Either back your statement with the Bible, or some other solid proof. As it stands it is just your theory.

 

[Wormwood]

Ok.
Matthew 5:3
Matthew 5:12
Matthew 5:20
Matthew 6:20
1 Cor. 15:48
2 Cor. 5:1
Col 1:5

However, my point is not that you are wrong on your view that we will dwell in an earthly paradise. My point is that Christians believe this as well and have coined that earthly paradise "heaven." Moreover, it is quite possible that we do dwell in heaven when we die, at least until God recreates the earth and the resurrection of the just (the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is an example of this). In any event, my point is that you think Christians have false views on this, when in actuality, you are just misappropriating the terms Christians use. Sure, it would be more appropriate to say, "one day when we live in a new earthly paradise" but its easier just to say "heaven." Even if it is not technically accurate, it does not mean that Christians have false beliefs about such matters. The JWs have a tendency to major in minors and this is a case in point. This is a discussion of terminology only and is certainly not worthy of such labels as "false teaching" and so forth.

Next point?