Hello Superjag.It says that they will have eyes and not see, ears and not hear and will heap up to themselves teachers who will tell them what they want to hear.You cannot argue truth and faith into anyone. But when you look back at all the talk that has been going on here you can clearly see that those who hold onto false beliefs have flimsy, see through, non Biblical reasons for doing what they do. Some does not even make sense. The pentecostal AOG churches will have a lot to answer for one day for all the souls they lied to, stole from, tricked and led to hell.Watch them when they arc up in their churches in tongues, sometimes up to 20+ of them gibbering away out loud and yet the Word say that is not how they should do it. I guess they just rip those pages out huh!
Special gifts in the churches
- Thread starter Brett
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This is an endless debate as Tama says its a personal matter but the final authority is the Word of God this is the truth of it the rest is mens own beliefs now it is each to your own as to whether you will take Gods truth as fact or hang on to your teaching of men.First lets understand there is a Holy Tongue it was spoken by all before the tower of Babel and its possible some may have a gift of speaking it. However it is only understood by God as stated in Cr 14:2Speaking in this tongue benefits only self as no one understands it.Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. What does this mean? Prophecy is the greater gift. If God see's fit to interpret to someone what is being said in this Holy tongue it will be a prophecy to share with and benifit the church. CR.14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues(He would like it if all had this gift, but he would rather we have the gift of understanding it) but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. CR.14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? Another words speaking in tongues is worthless unless it is interrupted so that all understand what is being revealed.(just as in Acts all understood)Cr.14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. You speak nothing but to the air unless God has granted you the gift of prophecy/revelation of this tongue.Now how do we discern a true prophet/prophecy? It will be 100% true and accurate. Just as the prophets in the Bible. So unless you can reveal what you are prophesising in this tongue and it is 100% true an accurate and benefits the entire church.It should only be spoken in prayer between you and God. As it edifies only self.Conclusion: if you pray in tongues only God I said ONLY GOD can understand it. So it is a waste of time to speak it in public. without understanding of what you say.The above is not my opinion but what scriptures says this can not be debated for it is Gods word on it.My question is if it is not understood how do you know it is from God? as you do not know what you say. So unless you have the gift of prophecy to understand what you are saying.I would say be very careful when/if you speak it in public.
(Brett;12336)
Hello Superjag.It says that they will have eyes and not see, ears and not hear and will heap up to themselves teachers who will tell them what they want to hear.You cannot argue truth and faith into anyone. But when you look back at all the talk that has been going on here you can clearly see that those who hold onto false beliefs have flimsy, see through, non Biblical reasons for doing what they do. Some does not even make sense. The pentecostal AOG churches will have a lot to answer for one day for all the souls they lied to, stole from, tricked and led to hell.Watch them when they arc up in their churches in tongues, sometimes up to 20+ of them gibbering away out loud and yet the Word say that is not how they should do it. I guess they just rip those pages out huh!
You should not say that. Do not judge everyone because of 1 church you heard of or visited. When you say Pentacostal - you can't define anything anymore. There are churches in the same denomination that are too different from each other. Yes, you can't forse thruth and faith into anyone, but try to reason with what you're saying. Pentacostals only do what's supported by God's Word, read all new testament!!! Some girl on Youtube said something and you hold that against all pentacostal churaches? How wrong... If you tell me your denomination or beliefe I can find lots of little things that will make your doctrine/belief/church look really bad too (just like you did with 1 youtube video). I won't do it because I understand there are lots of deceived people in this world.
Hello Superjag.It says that they will have eyes and not see, ears and not hear and will heap up to themselves teachers who will tell them what they want to hear.You cannot argue truth and faith into anyone. But when you look back at all the talk that has been going on here you can clearly see that those who hold onto false beliefs have flimsy, see through, non Biblical reasons for doing what they do. Some does not even make sense. The pentecostal AOG churches will have a lot to answer for one day for all the souls they lied to, stole from, tricked and led to hell.Watch them when they arc up in their churches in tongues, sometimes up to 20+ of them gibbering away out loud and yet the Word say that is not how they should do it. I guess they just rip those pages out huh!
You should not say that. Do not judge everyone because of 1 church you heard of or visited. When you say Pentacostal - you can't define anything anymore. There are churches in the same denomination that are too different from each other. Yes, you can't forse thruth and faith into anyone, but try to reason with what you're saying. Pentacostals only do what's supported by God's Word, read all new testament!!! Some girl on Youtube said something and you hold that against all pentacostal churaches? How wrong... If you tell me your denomination or beliefe I can find lots of little things that will make your doctrine/belief/church look really bad too (just like you did with 1 youtube video). I won't do it because I understand there are lots of deceived people in this world.
jodycour
New Member
In ICorinthians 14:4Say's that he that speaketh in an un-known tongue edifieth himselfYou guys seem to be missing this very important point.The word edifieth here means: to build up here!This gift is to help build up your spiritual man.It is not a lesser gift! God's word very plainly states that it does build you up!Becareful how you speak of the Holy Ghost because God does not take His gifts lightly!
(Brett)
(Tama)
You should not say that. Do not judge everyone because of 1 church you heard of or visited. When you say Pentacostal - you can't define anything anymore. There are churches in the same denomination that are too different from each other. Yes, you can't forse thruth and faith into anyone, but try to reason with what you're saying. Pentacostals only do what's supported by God's Word, read all new testament!!! Some girl on Youtube said something and you hold that against all pentacostal churaches? How wrong... If you tell me your denomination or beliefe I can find lots of little things that will make your doctrine/belief/church look really bad too (just like you did with 1 youtube video). I won't do it because I understand there are lots of deceived people in this world.
Hello Superjag.It says that they will have eyes and not see, ears and not hear and will heap up to themselves teachers who will tell them what they want to hear.You cannot argue truth and faith into anyone. But when you look back at all the talk that has been going on here you can clearly see that those who hold onto false beliefs have flimsy, see through, non Biblical reasons for doing what they do. Some does not even make sense. The pentecostal AOG churches will have a lot to answer for one day for all the souls they lied to, stole from, tricked and led to hell.Watch them when they arc up in their churches in tongues, sometimes up to 20+ of them gibbering away out loud and yet the Word say that is not how they should do it. I guess they just rip those pages out huh!I only got only at least 2 scriptures to say.John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.Meaning that we can judge by people's action.Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.We can not judge people's soul. That's God's job.Hey Lord Jesus when He was in the flesh, He judge no man.John 8:15 - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
(Tama)
You should not say that. Do not judge everyone because of 1 church you heard of or visited. When you say Pentacostal - you can't define anything anymore. There are churches in the same denomination that are too different from each other. Yes, you can't forse thruth and faith into anyone, but try to reason with what you're saying. Pentacostals only do what's supported by God's Word, read all new testament!!! Some girl on Youtube said something and you hold that against all pentacostal churaches? How wrong... If you tell me your denomination or beliefe I can find lots of little things that will make your doctrine/belief/church look really bad too (just like you did with 1 youtube video). I won't do it because I understand there are lots of deceived people in this world.
Hello Superjag.It says that they will have eyes and not see, ears and not hear and will heap up to themselves teachers who will tell them what they want to hear.You cannot argue truth and faith into anyone. But when you look back at all the talk that has been going on here you can clearly see that those who hold onto false beliefs have flimsy, see through, non Biblical reasons for doing what they do. Some does not even make sense. The pentecostal AOG churches will have a lot to answer for one day for all the souls they lied to, stole from, tricked and led to hell.Watch them when they arc up in their churches in tongues, sometimes up to 20+ of them gibbering away out loud and yet the Word say that is not how they should do it. I guess they just rip those pages out huh!I only got only at least 2 scriptures to say.John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.Meaning that we can judge by people's action.Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.We can not judge people's soul. That's God's job.Hey Lord Jesus when He was in the flesh, He judge no man.John 8:15 - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
(thesuperjag;12462)
I still think it's a personal matter. If you receive the gift - then use it properly. But it does exist and is well needed these days. If you don't have that gift - don't judge the ones that do. Again, you can't argue with someone about something you never experienced.
I still think it's a personal matter. If you receive the gift - then use it properly. But it does exist and is well needed these days. If you don't have that gift - don't judge the ones that do. Again, you can't argue with someone about something you never experienced.
(Tama;12467)
I still think it's a personal matter. If you receive the gift - then use it properly. But it does exist and is well needed these days. If you don't have that gift - don't judge the ones that do. Again, you can't argue with someone about something you never experienced.
This is a question of fact, not of character.Is it a gift or is it not? This is an objective question. It's not a personal issue that can't be discussed objectively. It's a theological issue, regardless of how people feel about it.
I still think it's a personal matter. If you receive the gift - then use it properly. But it does exist and is well needed these days. If you don't have that gift - don't judge the ones that do. Again, you can't argue with someone about something you never experienced.
This is a question of fact, not of character.Is it a gift or is it not? This is an objective question. It's not a personal issue that can't be discussed objectively. It's a theological issue, regardless of how people feel about it.
(jodycour;12456)
In ICorinthians 14:4Say's that he that speaketh in an un-known tongue edifieth himselfYou guys seem to be missing this very important point.The word edifieth here means: to build up here!This gift is to help build up your spiritual man.It is not a lesser gift! God's word very plainly states that it does build you up!Becareful how you speak of the Holy Ghost because God does not take His gifts lightly!
Jody you are right and wrong you are seeing this as a positive it is neither, positive or negative statement. It is simply saying that to speak in an unknown tongue serves no one but yourself. As no one but God understands it. You can pray in tongues but it is between you and God. ALONEIt also says what you seem to keep skipping is this is of NO USE to speak in public NO HUMAN can understand it if its the true gift of tongues. God has to grant you the gift of prophecy to be able to understand tonguesand if God grants you the gift of prophecy you must use this to translate the prophecy to the church.Another words God only grants this understanding if he has something important to say to the church. as in Acts You cant just read one scripture and skip the rest of the chapter.I ask again if only God understands what you are saying. and you talk things you don't understand how do you know its from God? If people in church were all talking this a holy language wouldn't it all sound the same? For example when the all say Amen. in English its Amen, if all say Amen in french,its still Amen in french, If tongues is Gods holy language Amen in Gods language should still sound like Amen in Gods language. If everyone is talking an unknown tongue with no understanding people could be saying things of the devil and the rest of the church not know it. That's why you are to keep it between you and God in prayer. Not public unless you can understand it.
In ICorinthians 14:4Say's that he that speaketh in an un-known tongue edifieth himselfYou guys seem to be missing this very important point.The word edifieth here means: to build up here!This gift is to help build up your spiritual man.It is not a lesser gift! God's word very plainly states that it does build you up!Becareful how you speak of the Holy Ghost because God does not take His gifts lightly!
Jody you are right and wrong you are seeing this as a positive it is neither, positive or negative statement. It is simply saying that to speak in an unknown tongue serves no one but yourself. As no one but God understands it. You can pray in tongues but it is between you and God. ALONEIt also says what you seem to keep skipping is this is of NO USE to speak in public NO HUMAN can understand it if its the true gift of tongues. God has to grant you the gift of prophecy to be able to understand tonguesand if God grants you the gift of prophecy you must use this to translate the prophecy to the church.Another words God only grants this understanding if he has something important to say to the church. as in Acts You cant just read one scripture and skip the rest of the chapter.I ask again if only God understands what you are saying. and you talk things you don't understand how do you know its from God? If people in church were all talking this a holy language wouldn't it all sound the same? For example when the all say Amen. in English its Amen, if all say Amen in french,its still Amen in french, If tongues is Gods holy language Amen in Gods language should still sound like Amen in Gods language. If everyone is talking an unknown tongue with no understanding people could be saying things of the devil and the rest of the church not know it. That's why you are to keep it between you and God in prayer. Not public unless you can understand it.
(kriss;12702)
It also says what you seem to keep skipping is this is of NO USE to speak in public NO HUMAN can understand it if its the true gift of tongues. God has to grant you the gift of prophecy to be able to understand tonguesand if God grants you the gift of prophecy you must use this to translate the prophecy to the church.Another words God only grants this understanding if he has something important to say to the church. as in Acts
I understand this verse like this: If you direct your prayer/speaking in tongues to an individual - you are no use to that person. All prophecies should be interpreted into a language that person will understand. If you want to pray intongues - you are welcome but it has to be directed to God because only He understands your prayer at that moment! But I know that praying in tongues is a gift that is very benefitial to your inner person. You spirit strengthens thru that. Only Holy spirit in you knows your inside, and knows things that are even hidden from yourself, He then prays to the father about those things that need change and strengthening.
It also says what you seem to keep skipping is this is of NO USE to speak in public NO HUMAN can understand it if its the true gift of tongues. God has to grant you the gift of prophecy to be able to understand tonguesand if God grants you the gift of prophecy you must use this to translate the prophecy to the church.Another words God only grants this understanding if he has something important to say to the church. as in Acts
I understand this verse like this: If you direct your prayer/speaking in tongues to an individual - you are no use to that person. All prophecies should be interpreted into a language that person will understand. If you want to pray intongues - you are welcome but it has to be directed to God because only He understands your prayer at that moment! But I know that praying in tongues is a gift that is very benefitial to your inner person. You spirit strengthens thru that. Only Holy spirit in you knows your inside, and knows things that are even hidden from yourself, He then prays to the father about those things that need change and strengthening.
(Biblical Tetragramaton;12697)
This is a question of fact, not of character.Is it a gift or is it not? This is an objective question. It's not a personal issue that can't be discussed objectively. It's a theological issue, regardless of how people feel about it.
It is a GIFT and as Bible says - only who asks for it receives it! Whoever wants it will get it. So in other words it can not be forsed onto anyone. You can't make it a rule at your church or tell people not to ask for it if they desire to have it! Those who have it and use it are the only ones who can tell you it is a very benefitial gift of a Holy Spirit.Wjhy do you think so many scriptures in New TEspament would be consentrated on that? Why would apostoles concentrate on that in their letter to various churches?
This is a question of fact, not of character.Is it a gift or is it not? This is an objective question. It's not a personal issue that can't be discussed objectively. It's a theological issue, regardless of how people feel about it.
It is a GIFT and as Bible says - only who asks for it receives it! Whoever wants it will get it. So in other words it can not be forsed onto anyone. You can't make it a rule at your church or tell people not to ask for it if they desire to have it! Those who have it and use it are the only ones who can tell you it is a very benefitial gift of a Holy Spirit.Wjhy do you think so many scriptures in New TEspament would be consentrated on that? Why would apostoles concentrate on that in their letter to various churches?
(Tama;12705)
I understand this verse like this: If you direct your prayer/speaking in tongues to an individual - you are no use to that person. All prophecies should be interpreted into a language that person will understand. If you want to pray intongues - you are welcome but it has to be directed to God because only He understands your prayer at that moment! But I know that praying in tongues is a gift that is very benefitial to your inner person. You spirit strengthens thru that. Only Holy spirit in you knows your inside, and knows things that are even hidden from yourself, He then prays to the father about those things that need change and strengthening.
I think we both have same understanding of what the gift is.Where I see the problem is it being used out loud in public (a church)If a person claim to understand it they are lying or it is not from God.(as only God can understand it) Scripture is clear that speaking tounges to others is of NO benifit in fact is called as helpful as speaking into the air.So my question has to be if you are the one speaking it in public and someone says they understood then you can not be speaking from Godso who are you speaking from? have you mislead someone? It seems this could be dangerous so is this why we are told only use it in your own private prayers with God
I understand this verse like this: If you direct your prayer/speaking in tongues to an individual - you are no use to that person. All prophecies should be interpreted into a language that person will understand. If you want to pray intongues - you are welcome but it has to be directed to God because only He understands your prayer at that moment! But I know that praying in tongues is a gift that is very benefitial to your inner person. You spirit strengthens thru that. Only Holy spirit in you knows your inside, and knows things that are even hidden from yourself, He then prays to the father about those things that need change and strengthening.
I think we both have same understanding of what the gift is.Where I see the problem is it being used out loud in public (a church)If a person claim to understand it they are lying or it is not from God.(as only God can understand it) Scripture is clear that speaking tounges to others is of NO benifit in fact is called as helpful as speaking into the air.So my question has to be if you are the one speaking it in public and someone says they understood then you can not be speaking from Godso who are you speaking from? have you mislead someone? It seems this could be dangerous so is this why we are told only use it in your own private prayers with God
(kriss;12708)
I think we both have same understanding of what the gift is.Where I see the problem is it being used out loud in public (a church)If a person claim to understand it they are lying or it is not from God.(as only God can understand it) Scripture is clear that speaking tounges to others is of NO benifit in fact is called as helpful as speaking into the air.
And I agree with you! It is for your personal spiritual growth. Or if it's for anyone around you - it has to be emidiately translated.There is a Gift or 'understanding the tongues' too.
I think we both have same understanding of what the gift is.Where I see the problem is it being used out loud in public (a church)If a person claim to understand it they are lying or it is not from God.(as only God can understand it) Scripture is clear that speaking tounges to others is of NO benifit in fact is called as helpful as speaking into the air.
And I agree with you! It is for your personal spiritual growth. Or if it's for anyone around you - it has to be emidiately translated.There is a Gift or 'understanding the tongues' too.
(Tama;12710)
And I agree with you! It is for your personal spiritual growth. Or if it's for anyone around you - it has to be emidiately translated.There is a Gift or 'understanding the tongues' too.
Exactly thats my point if its not immediately translated (called the gift of prophecy ) It should not be spoken in public out loud
And I agree with you! It is for your personal spiritual growth. Or if it's for anyone around you - it has to be emidiately translated.There is a Gift or 'understanding the tongues' too.
Exactly thats my point if its not immediately translated (called the gift of prophecy ) It should not be spoken in public out loud
So my question has to be if you are the one speaking it in public and someone says they understood then you can not be speaking from Godso who are you speaking from? have you mislead someone? It seems this could be dangerous so is this why we are told only use it in your own private prayers with Godremember this gift of understanding (prophecy) as far as we know was only granted to the apostles so it is a very rare and important giftthat is only granted when God has something important to say to all Christians (not the local church group)
(kriss;12712)
So my question has to be if you are the one speaking it in public and someone says they understood then you can not be speaking from Godso who are you speaking from? have you mislead someone? It seems this could be dangerous so is this why we are told only use it in your own private prayers with Godremember this gift of understanding (prophecy) as far as we know was only granted to the apostles so it is a very rare and important giftthat is only granted when God has something important to say to all Christians (not the local church group)
Why, no, speaking in tongues can be in a different language that someone can understand. Remember the day when Apostoles got their gift of speaking in tongues, they spoke outloud IN PUBLIC, and some people understood them, (languages) and everyone around them thought they were drunk. I'm not saying we should do it that way- but I'm not sure we should say "DON'T EVER DO IT" Because this is how Holy Spirit first manifested itself. Outloud in Public.
So my question has to be if you are the one speaking it in public and someone says they understood then you can not be speaking from Godso who are you speaking from? have you mislead someone? It seems this could be dangerous so is this why we are told only use it in your own private prayers with Godremember this gift of understanding (prophecy) as far as we know was only granted to the apostles so it is a very rare and important giftthat is only granted when God has something important to say to all Christians (not the local church group)
Why, no, speaking in tongues can be in a different language that someone can understand. Remember the day when Apostoles got their gift of speaking in tongues, they spoke outloud IN PUBLIC, and some people understood them, (languages) and everyone around them thought they were drunk. I'm not saying we should do it that way- but I'm not sure we should say "DON'T EVER DO IT" Because this is how Holy Spirit first manifested itself. Outloud in Public.
I dont understand your post Tama it says when it came upon the prophets everyone understood in their own language Greeks heard it in greek jews in hebrew. ect. it also says that it should not be done with more than two or three people and one of them should be an interpiter. So unless you have an interpiter it should not be spoken in large groups. Above you say that you understand it the way I do. It must be imeaditly translatednow you say its ok to speak it in large groups but scripture says it shouldn't it cannot be both. and scripture says to just speak in to many with no interpitation is as good as speaking to the air i.e. or nothing.And what do you mean if someone can understand God says only he and the Angels can understand and if he grants the gift of understanding it is THE GIFT OF PROCHECY and must be of benifit to the entire church body just as in Acts.So that still says to me if someone says they understand and it is not a prochecy for the benifit of the church they are either lyingor it is not from God
Yes it was before the tower of Bable Wakka, but God confused the languagesand now he says NO ONE but he and Angles can understand it.The only way it can be understood now is if God grants you the spirit to understand it and make a prophecy to benifit the entire church Body.
jodycour
New Member
But there are times when God will use tongues to comunicate to a person that only the person hearing it understands because it is a personal prophecy to that person.I'm in agreement with you that it is'nt good to publicly speak in tongues, unless God specifically reveals to you that He is going to use this to benefit the whole body.Also there are Spirit filled Churches that understand the neccessity of building yourself up in this prayer language. The whole church understands the benefit of this gift because when you are praying in unknown tongues you become very sensitive to the HolySpirit and what He wants to do in that service.That is why when some one that visits does not understand this because they don't understand the HolySpirit because they don't have this gift yet, so it is confusing to them.But if you'll notice, even though this appears to be very confusing because everyone is speaking in an unknown tongue out loud. They all seem to flow together and God is working and there is no confusion to them because they are flowing in the HolySpirit of God. They are all on the same page so to speak. It is very simular to being in a band of muscians that just flow together because they are use to flowing together.
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