Spirits and Demons

[Helen]

But the sons of God, I will definitely have to check out, because I have never heard the sons of God as angels before except with Shedrach, meshach, and abednago in some translations...much less cohabitating with women. I'm unsure about that. Never heard this before.

I do not hold to that teaching. I do not for one moment believe they were fallen angels. But many people buy into it.
A bit too much science - fiction for me.
As angels are genderless...and spirit beings how can the reproduce .. it is a stupid teaching to me.

It makes more sense for it to be the line of Seth and the line of Cain...
Not that I bother my head about things which cannot be proved either way.

 

[Nancy]

I don't believe it is wise or necessary to call everything "demons". In fact, it could be positively harmful to mislabel something.

So the list should be divided into (1) the possible result of demonic oppression and (2) the possible result of demon-possession.

1. The possible result of demonic oppression
Fear
Depression
Torment
Dread
Hopelessness
Despair
Insecurity
Paranoia
Suspicion
Distrust
Insecurity
Loneliness
Shyness
Discouragement
Passivity
Lying (Deceit)
Antisocial
Compulsive neurotic behavior
Phobias

2. The possible result of demon-possession
Madness
Insanity
Schizophrenia
Multiple Personalities
Hearing Voices
Mind Control

Just reading C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters will give a great picture of how Satan and the demons work.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Id like to start a discussion on this, but am unsure how to, so will just type. On one hand I think that it is good to discuss spirits and demons to realize as Christians, we have no reason to fear them. We can rebuke them in Jesus name. But on the other hand, sometimes it seems like some people have a lot more demonic influence then others. And spirits like depression/anxiety etc...a lot have these. And I do believe they are like spirits. What is y'alls take on this. I know @Heart2Soul shared something really good about it. Can I share that Patty?

But when I was younger I have gone through "depossessions" not to be confused by exorcisms. I really don't know how to describe that or want to talk about it again. Does talking about demons/spirits open a door to demonic influence? I rebuke that from happening in Jesus Name and bind any attempts by the enemy.

It depends on the person and the effect it has on them, Mayflower. When I was a young Christian I studied extensively from the writings of deliverance ministers and ex-Satanists-turned-Christians. It strengthened my faith in the supernatural, and also built up my knowledge of how Satan's kingdom operates. But if the person begins "seeing" demons everywhere, then no, that would be someone for whom concentrated study on the subject would be detrimental to their walk.

About the lists, during deliverance, demons are named and cast out by their function.

About the "sons of God" teaching, Helen may hate me for it, LoL, but what Enoch stated in Post #9 is indeed the Christian tradition. As Whiston stated in his translation of Josephus, "That angels were in some sense the fathers of the giants of old was the constant opinion of antiquity," and I can assure you that's the case. It was only in the 4th century that theologians like St. Jerome began reinterpreting Genesis 6:1-4 as men rather than angels. All of Judaism and early Christianity up until the 4th century affirmed the tradition regarding the sons of God being fallen angels.

So why were you interested in the subject?

 

[Mayflower]

Just reading C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters will give a great picture of how Satan and the demons work.

I heard of that book. Had no idea this is what that was about.

 

[Mayflower]

It depends on the person and the effect it has on them, Mayflower. When I was a young Christian I studied extensively from the writings of deliverance ministers and ex-Satanists-turned-Christians. It strengthened my faith in the supernatural, and also built up my knowledge of how Satan's kingdom operates. But if the person begins "seeing" demons everywhere, then no, that would be someone for whom concentrated study on the subject would be detrimental to their walk.

About the lists, during deliverance, demons are named and cast out by their function.

About the "sons of God" teaching, Helen may hate me for it, LoL, but what Enoch stated in Post #9 is indeed the Christian tradition. As Whiston stated in his translation of Josephus, "That angels were in some sense the fathers of the giants of old was the constant opinion of antiquity," and I can assure you that's the case. It was only in the 4th century that theologians like St. Jerome began reinterpreting Genesis 6:1-4 as men rather than angels. All of Judaism and early Christianity up until the 4th century affirmed the tradition regarding the sons of God being fallen angels.

So why were you interested in the subject?

Interesting. I think I am going to not look into the whole angels with humans thing. I don't know if I should have another thing to rub my chin about my husband about. Lol.

And as far as becoming interested in the topic, I saw one in a picture with someone. Then I looked again and it was the fan with eyes...but started getting me on the topic again as to what I should do when I see something like that. I do start praying against the spirit of anxiety, because anxiety causes me to see things that aren't there sometimes too.

 

[Enoch111]

All of Judaism and early Christianity up until the 4th century affirmed the tradition regarding the sons of God being fallen angels.

Very true. Enoch is NOT Scripture but provides some insight.

BOOK OF ENOCH

CHAPTER 7
1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children....And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it....

CHAPTER 8
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones....

 

[Mayflower]

Is Enoch the Apocrypha?

It is interesting when we were talking about spirits and demons opening doors. Someone had posted a video on something involving witchcraft and seeing spirits in the spiritual realms. I didn't listen to it, but I started thinking about Skyrim, Fallout 3, Doom, Oblivion...Bethesda games in general...I used to play them for hours on end...you can blow up an entire town with an atomic bomb, worship daedric lords, be in something called the Dark Brotherhood and assassinate people. I really believe for the longest time that increased my anxiety and depression...brought guilt and shame. I've been a lot happier since I have cut out a lot of the games I used to play. Movies are a bit harder to decide on....

 

[Mayflower]

I looked up a wiki about the Book of Enoch. That is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Nancy]

I heard of that book. Had no idea this is what that was about.

It's awesome, have read it several times over the years. Once you start to read it, you have to understand who the characters are so you don't confuse between who is who. That comes quick enough. Awesome book!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Very true. Enoch is NOT Scripture but provides some insight.

I looked up a wiki about the Book of Enoch. That is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Actually, this is strongly debatable, Enoch (LoL. I just realized I'm now discussing Enoch with... Enoch).

But Jude quoted the text from 1 Enoch as if it were inspired prophecy, which means he believed it was scripture, and I'd take the opinion of a New Testament writer over modern "scholarship" any day of the week. But the main point of contention is over the very verse you highlighted (which is in Chapter 7, btw):

CHAPTER 8
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men.

This rendering is in all likelihood a corruption. I can quote you some work done by R.H.Charles and George W.E. Nicklesburg if you're interested, but three thousand ells would make them hundreds of feet tall, whereas the text actually reads something else. But the work should be regarded as scripture, Imo, as there are literally a half dozen places where NT writers and even Christ Himself quoted the work, which is supposed to be the sole criteria for judging if something is scripture or not.

 

[bbyrd009]

As angels are genderless...and spirit beings how can the reproduce .. it is a stupid teaching to me.

more than one way for Sons of God to come in to the daughters of men i guess
there is obv some reason the passage does not just say "angels lay with women"

 

[Heart2Soul]

Actually, this is strongly debatable, Enoch (LoL. I just realized I'm now discussing Enoch with... Enoch).

But Jude quoted the text from 1 Enoch as if it were inspired prophecy, which means he believed it was scripture, and I'd take the opinion of a New Testament writer over modern "scholarship" any day of the week. But the main point of contention is over the very verse you highlighted (which is in Chapter 7, btw):


This rendering is in all likelihood a corruption. I can quote you some work done by R.H.Charles and George W.E. Nicklesburg if you're interested, but three thousand ells would make them hundreds of feet tall, whereas the text actually reads something else. But the work should be regarded as scripture, Imo, as there are literally a half dozen places where NT writers and even Christ Himself quoted the work, which is supposed to be the sole criteria for judging if something is scripture or not.

From what I have read about the existence of giants is that they had such a horrendous appetite that they soon had no food left to eat and began eating each other....ugh. So I guess they became extinct through there own lack of survival skills! Ha!

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[Hidden In Him]

From what I have read about the existence of giants is that they had such a horrendous appetite that they soon had no food left to eat and began eating each other....ugh. So I guess they became extinct through there own lack of survival skills! Ha!

Yes. The tradition is that the giants were the first to introduce meat-eating and then cannibalism upon the earth, which eventually led to "the thoughts of every man being only evil continually" and brought about God's judgment. They only turned on each other at the very end.

The tradition about the sons of God also explains why Peter references angels who were cast down into Tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4, specifically in connection with Him not sparing the ancient world, but bringing a flood that destroyed them all (2 Peter 2:5).

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes. The tradition is that the giants were the first to introduce meat-eating and then cannibalism upon the earth, which eventually led to "the thoughts of every man being only evil continually" and brought about God's judgment. They only turned on each other at the very end.

The tradition about the sons of God also explains why Peter references angels who were cast down into Tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4, specifically in connection with Him not sparing the ancient world, but bringing a flood that destroyed them all (2 Peter 2:5).

 

[Hidden In Him]

What? Am I tampering with your hamburger now?

 

[Heart2Soul]

What? Am I tampering with your hamburger now?

LOL....more like a turkey burger! Ha!