Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them

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DJT_47

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Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.

First, look at the way Paul started his letter to the Corinthians starting at 1 Cor1:10 where he's discussing contentions and divisions in Corinth and the need for unity which sets the stage for the rest of 1 Corinthians.

Also keep in mind, this was written to them in their time, addressing their near term issues, and not to us nor considering some event in the distant future.

And too, keep in mind that the early church was a fledgling body with little to guide and hold it together, and prone to division, contention, and falling away, such as was also warned about in the Hebrew letter as well.

You have to first ask yourself and answer the question as to what is "that which is perfect"?

The aforementioned question and answer to it is found in Ephesians 4:13 wherein it discusses 'till we all come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect man, the perfect man being the perfection of the body of Christ: this being then the previous need for the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts noted in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.

The "face to face" and "known as we are known" is relating to the distinction between the old testament readings, and coming to Christ via the New Testament and the comparison to the veil in reading Moses, and we now, they then, being able to look into a glass or mirror and seeing a reflection of Christ as opposed to our own image.

To piece it all together, you must look at the gifts and the logic in, and need for them at that time, all being necessary in the early church to edify it, as well as to grow the church such as by use of tongues, being a sign to unbelievers.

I've posted all the pertinent parts of scriptures from 1 Cor 12, 13, Galatians 3, and Ephesians 4. Look very closely at the similarity of words used and phraseology and piece those similar words and phrases together to get the true picture of their meaning as relates to the subject matter.

1 Corinthians 12:8-31

8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

2 Corinthians 3:7-18

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Galatians 3:23-27

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:7-16

7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
 

Randy Kluth

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Good subject to discuss! What makes it difficult is that in the Early Church there was a tendency to view the gifts as diminishing in frequency and perhaps in importance. Gradually, the Scriptures became the rule, and the Gifts a questionable experience, subject to discernment.

The "Perfect," as I see it, is our goal of becoming immortal. Presently, we participate in Christ. But in the future, we become like Christ in purity. We become Sinless.

Until then, the Gifts of the Spirit are designed to bring believers into maturity. That requires knowledge, and it requires regularly feeding upon Christ spiritually, whether through fellowship or prayer. Teaching brings us knowledge, and revelation maintains an experience with Christ while we learn. Otherwise, all we are getting is "Head Knowledge."

In the OT Scriptures it was recognized that certain men of faith had particular gifts. Certain men were gifted with being able to construct the tabernacle. Moses was particularly suited for leadership. The Prophets had the ability to bring God's living word into the present situation. Solomon had great wisdom. Etc. Jesus had the ability to perform miracles, as did his apostles. Only Jesus could redeem for Eternal Life.

One thing we should notice of is that though all believers were expected to be able to teach their children, be wise, and evidence signs and wonders in their lives, not everybody was equipped in particular with these gifts, or given to regularly use them in ministry. Men like Samson had a unique display of physical strength, while he ruled Israel as a judge, whereas the strength every believer has by faith is diminished in comparison with Sampson.

So the idea is to identify particular gifts of importance in the Church so that we recognize them, acknowledge them, and benefit from them. We don't decide. God does. We need to put pride out of the way and receive gifts through men that God has gifted. At the same time we always need to discern by comparing leaders with Christ himself, so that claims and subjective experience does not take the place of truth and doctrine.
 
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DJT_47

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Good subject to discuss! What makes it difficult is that in the Early Church there was a tendency to view the gifts as diminishing in frequency and perhaps in importance. Gradually, the Scriptures became the rule, and the Gifts a questionable experience, subject to discernment.

The "Perfect," as I see it, is our goal of becoming immortal. Presently, we participate in Christ. But in the future, we become like Christ in purity. We become Sinless.

Until then, the Gifts of the Spirit are designed to bring believers into maturity. That requires knowledge, and it requires regularly feeding upon Christ spiritually, whether through fellowship or prayer. Teaching brings us knowledge, and revelation maintains an experience with Christ while we learn. Otherwise, all we are getting is "Head Knowledge."

In the OT Scriptures it was recognized that certain men of faith had particular gifts. Certain men were gifted with being able to construct the tabernacle. Moses was particularly suited for leadership. The Prophets had the ability to bring God's living word into the present situation. Solomon had great wisdom. Etc. Jesus had the ability to perform miracles, as did his apostles. Only Jesus could redeem for Eternal Life.

One thing we should notice of is that though all believers were expected to be able to teach their children, be wise, and evidence signs and wonders in their lives, not everybody was equipped in particular with these gifts, or given to regularly use them in ministry. Men like Samson had a unique display of physical strength, while he ruled Israel as a judge, whereas the strength every believer has by faith is diminished in comparison with Sampson.

So the idea is to identify particular gifts of importance in the Church so that we recognize them, acknowledge them, and benefit from them. We don't decide. God does. We need to put pride out of the way and receive gifts through men that God has gifted. At the same time we always need to discern by comparing leaders with Christ himself, so that claims and subjective experience does not take the place of truth and doctrine.
Not quite on the same page with you but for sure, this is a good and timely topic due to relative confusion of it.

The gifts did diminish in importance and rightfully so. The gifts were akin to parts of the body, in this case, the body of Christ, the church. There was no written NT word, just verbal and letters as they were written and shared, so the various spiritual gifts filled that void as well as served as proof and signs to nonbelievers such as via tongues. No longer necessary today.

The perfect, as I tried to explain by scripture, is the perfect man, or in this case once again, the perfecting of the various church congregations who had to rely on the miraculous gifts to edify the entire body until the point of becoming perfected by the various gifts possessed by the members such as by prophesy, word of knowledge, etc., each gift performing it's unique function to enable the body.
 

Randy Kluth

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Not quite on the same page with you but for sure, this is a good and timely topic due to relative confusion of it.

The gifts did diminish in importance and rightfully so. The gifts were akin to parts of the body, in this case, the body of Christ, the church. There was no written NT word, just verbal and letters as they were written and shared, so the various spiritual gifts filled that void as well as served as proof and signs to nonbelievers such as via tongues. No longer necessary today.

The perfect, as I tried to explain by scripture, is the perfect man, or in this case once again, the perfecting of the various church congregations who had to rely on the miraculous gifts to edify the entire body until the point of becoming perfected by the various gifts possessed by the members such as by prophesy, word of knowledge, etc., each gift performing it's unique function to enable the body.
In other words, you're a "Dispensationalist," with respect to the Gifts? I do recognize that people who "claim" Gifts often are self-promoters. And we certainly have to watch out for that!
 
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DJT_47

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In other words, you're a "Dispensationalist," with respect to the Gifts? I do recognize that people who "claim" Gifts often are self-promoters. And we certainly have to watch out for that!
I'm a Christian who simply reads and studies the bible and trys to understand what it meant then and what it now means to us. The problem with most people is that they erroneously assume it was written to us; it wasn't, but does have peripheral meaning and application to us. We just need understand that and keep it in context.
 

Randy Kluth

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I'm a Christian who simply reads and studies the bible and trys to understand what it meant then and what it now means to us. The problem with most people is that they erroneously assume it was written to us; it wasn't, but does have peripheral meaning and application to us. We just need understand that and keep it in context.
I wasn't casting aspersions on you by referring to you as a "Dispensationalist." That is simply the term for beliefs that sound similar to yours. I wasn't sure if you were completely allied with that position or not? It seems you simply don't wish to carry a particular label?

I do agree that if we are to interpret the Scriptures properly we must recognize to whom they were specifically written, and not just read it all like a coded message to every believer! Yes, there may be a peripheral application of the Song of Songs to Christians in the NT era. But to interpret it properly we have to keep in mind it is an expression of love in the context of martial romance, viewed through the eyes of faith.

And I would agree that when Jesus told his Apostles to go out into all the earth, we was specifically speaking to those Disciples, and not to the entire Church. Indeed, they went out to the nations and proclaimed the fundamentals of the faith, as Jesus personally had taught them.

On the other hand, the Church continues to carry out the mission of the Apostles. So there is an indirect application to the entire Church. All may contribute to this mission, but certainly not all are called to carry out missionary activity, as the Apostles were!
 

Tommy Cool

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Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.
It’s really not that difficult when you read what is written with neutrality. In other words, … not trying to prove a point… just accepting the revelation that Paul was given as the God breathed Word. When we have to qualify certain parts of scripture because we don’t agree with it ….then there is a problem.

Whatever is written should always be evaluated as to whom it is written as there are only three categories of people in the Bible… Jew’s, Gentiles, or Church of God. Whatever category you are in is what applies to you…. and if you are born again you would be Church of God. That means anything addressed to Jews or Gentiles is for our learning…. but does not apply directly to you.

The church epistles Romans through Thessalonians are written directly to us in this administration (dispensation) of grace. Although Romans (parts of chapters 2&3 and chapters 9-11) does have a few spots that are directed to the Jews and one area to Gentiles …but context makes it clear.

God has a purpose for everything He has written…where he says it… why, how, to whom, and when He says it.

Who is 1 Corinthians written to
1Co 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

All the church epistles were encyclical they didn’t just stay in Corinth, or Thessalonica, or Macedonia… etc….so they could be sent throughout the body of believers. And while Corinth did have some problems the uniqueness of the epistles including the order they were places in what we know a the Bible definitely had the hand of God upon it.

Romans, Ephesians, Thessalonians are doctrinal epistles

Corinthians & Philippians are reproof epistles

Galatians & Colossians are correction epistles

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



The first thing to recognize regarding 1 Cor 12 is..... they are not gifts.

They are a manifestation (an operation) of the gift of the gift of holy spirit…..and there is a huge difference.


In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times by translators …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

The word “spiritual” in verse 1 is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters).

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of the Body of Christ” →(“5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11**) →(“holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38) and →(“gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation thereof …1 Cor 12:9). **(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed to serving Gods people.)

12:4
A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

In verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12 it changes from gifts to manifestation.

12:7
But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal”

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestation.

The difference between gift and manifestation is…. A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is an evidence, a showing forth of something you already have.

The need for the 9 manifestation of the spirit are just as necessary today as they were in the 1st century. The adversary has not changed he is just as real and opposing now as he was back then. I would be walking blind if I was not able to tap the resources of God in my walk ….. These are critical to all believers.

I know that most of the time you hear about speaking in tongues … and unfortunately the purpose has been corrupted with hideous adaptations which are incorrect. But I almost consider tongues the foundational manifestation due to the 12 benefits that God has attached to it …

These manifestations will all cease upon the return of Christ.... but until then.... whether or not you want to operate any or all of the manifestation …they are latent within each and every born again believer.
 

DJT_47

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Very difficult subject (spiritual gifts) which is why there's so much controversy, and equally difficult to unravel and explain. But let me explain it this way.

First, look at the way Paul started his letter to the Corinthians starting at 1 Cor1:10 where he's discussing contentions and divisions in Corinth and the need for unity which sets the stage for the rest of 1 Corinthians.

Also keep in mind, this was written to them in their time, addressing their near term issues, and not to us nor considering some event in the distant future.

And too, keep in mind that the early church was a fledgling body with little to guide and hold it together, and prone to division, contention, and falling away, such as was also warned about in the Hebrew letter as well.

You have to first ask yourself and answer the question as to what is "that which is perfect"?

The aforementioned question and answer to it is found in Ephesians 4:13 wherein it discusses 'till we all come to the unity of the faith unto a perfect man, the perfect man being the perfection of the body of Christ: this being then the previous need for the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts noted in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. We now have the bible to guide us and no longer need the piece meal parts of the body.

The "face to face" and "known as we are known" is relating to the distinction between the old testament readings, and coming to Christ via the New Testament and the comparison to the veil in reading Moses, and we now, they then, being able to look into a glass or mirror and seeing a reflection of Christ as opposed to our own image.

To piece it all together, you must look at the gifts and the logic in, and need for them at that time, all being necessary in the early church to edify it, as well as to grow the church such as by use of tongues, being a sign to unbelievers.

I've posted all the pertinent parts of scriptures from 1 Cor 12, 13, Galatians 3, and Ephesians 4. Look very closely at the similarity of words used and phraseology and piece those similar words and phrases together to get the true picture of their meaning as relates to the subject matter.

1 Corinthians 12:8-31

8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

2 Corinthians 3:7-18

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Galatians 3:23-27

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:7-16

7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
You are correct regarding gifts and the proper term for them as manifestations of the spirt. I simply referred to them as they are most commonly referred to today, as gifts, not manifestations of the spirit.
Regarding churches of God, the letter was addressed to the church of God at Corinth, so, it was written to them and not us, but what's contained therein has peripheral application to us as well as in all NT writings or even the bible as a whole. When the word church or church of God, of Christ, etc, is used, it doesn't necessarily automatically apply as written directly to us today, but rather the local congregation of the church which in this case was at Corinth.
 

1stCenturyLady

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You are correct regarding gifts and the proper term for them as manifestations of the spirt. I simply referred to them as they are most commonly referred to today, as gifts, not manifestations of the spirit.

This is correct, because there are more than one manifestation of the Spirit - signs, gifts, dreams and visions, and wonders. So there is more than just gifts.

Signs - Mark 16:17-18
Gifts - 1 Corinthians 12
Wonders - walking on the sea, moving mountains, moving through walls,

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
 
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DJT_47

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It’s really not that difficult when you read what is written with neutrality. In other words, … not trying to prove a point… just accepting the revelation that Paul was given as the God breathed Word. When we have to qualify certain parts of scripture because we don’t agree with it ….then there is a problem.

Whatever is written should always be evaluated as to whom it is written as there are only three categories of people in the Bible… Jew’s, Gentiles, or Church of God. Whatever category you are in is what applies to you…. and if you are born again you would be Church of God. That means anything addressed to Jews or Gentiles is for our learning…. but does not apply directly to you.

The church epistles Romans through Thessalonians are written directly to us in this administration (dispensation) of grace. Although Romans (parts of chapters 2&3 and chapters 9-11) does have a few spots that are directed to the Jews and one area to Gentiles …but context makes it clear.

God has a purpose for everything He has written…where he says it… why, how, to whom, and when He says it.

Who is 1 Corinthians written to
1Co 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

All the church epistles were encyclical they didn’t just stay in Corinth, or Thessalonica, or Macedonia… etc….so they could be sent throughout the body of believers. And while Corinth did have some problems the uniqueness of the epistles including the order they were places in what we know a the Bible definitely had the hand of God upon it.

Romans, Ephesians, Thessalonians are doctrinal epistles

Corinthians & Philippians are reproof epistles

Galatians & Colossians are correction epistles

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



The first thing to recognize regarding 1 Cor 12 is..... they are not gifts.

They are a manifestation (an operation) of the gift of the gift of holy spirit…..and there is a huge difference.


In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times by translators …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

The word “spiritual” in verse 1 is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters).

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of the Body of Christ” →(“5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11**) →(“holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38) and →(“gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation thereof …1 Cor 12:9). **(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed to serving Gods people.)

12:4
A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

In verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12 it changes from gifts to manifestation.

12:7
But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal”

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestation.

The difference between gift and manifestation is…. A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is an evidence, a showing forth of something you already have.

The need for the 9 manifestation of the spirit are just as necessary today as they were in the 1st century. The adversary has not changed he is just as real and opposing now as he was back then. I would be walking blind if I was not able to tap the resources of God in my walk ….. These are critical to all believers.

I know that most of the time you hear about speaking in tongues … and unfortunately the purpose has been corrupted with hideous adaptations which are incorrect. But I almost consider tongues the foundational manifestation due to the 12 benefits that God has attached to it …

These manifestations will all cease upon the return of Christ.... but until then.... whether or not you want to operate any or all of the manifestation …they are latent within each and every born again believer.
Please regard this ad supplemental to my initial response to which was rushed due to time constraints this A.M.
Regardless what you call them be it gifts or manifestations of the spirit, they have all ceased long ago and will not be present until the Lord returns. 1 Cor 13:8-10 still is applicable which has nothing to do with the Lord's return.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Please regard this ad supplemental to my initial response to which was rushed due to time constraints this A.M.
Regardless what you call them be it gifts or manifestations of the spirit, they have all ceased long ago and will not be present until the Lord returns. 1 Cor 13:8-10 still is applicable which has nothing to do with the Lord's return.

You couldn't be more wrong. They are part of our New Covenant, and NOTHING CEASES through the duration of a covenant. It is totally binding in every way. Only unbelief will separate you from them. I know, I was a cessationist before I was filled with the Holy Spirit. And as soon as I was filled I received ALL of the gifts, minus 2. That includes Joel 2, Mark 16, Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 12, plus an office from Ephesians 4 during this last 46 years since then. He turns your night into day.

You will always be hoodwinked by the cessationist doctrine of demons to keep you weak, until you at least believe and accept this fact about covenant law. It took me 6 years after becoming informed to actually repent and receive the Holy Spirit, AND salvation. Without the Spirit inside you with evidence, you will only be learning, but never arrive at the Truth.

It was the same with the Old Covenant. Nothing ceased; not a jot or a tittle until all was fulfilled. The New Covenant is completely different from the Old ministry of death. This is of the Spirit, and like it or not, supernatural.

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER OF GOD.

Because the first gift I received, besides a vision, was hearing God's voice. I only pray for myself what God speaks to me to pray, and because of that gift I have received what I quoted 100% of the past 46 years. That is supernatural, and powerful. It is the closest relationship you can have on earth with God. I KNOW Him, not just about Him, like you or any cessationist does when full of only unbelief and ignorance.
 
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DJT_47

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You couldn't be more wrong. They are part of our New Covenant, and NOTHING CEASES through the duration of a covenant. It is totally binding in every way. Only unbelief will separate you from them. I know, I was a Cessationist before I was filled with the Holy Spirit. And as soon as I was filled I received ALL of the gifts, minus 2. That includes Joel 2, Mark 16, Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 12, plus an office from Ephesians 4 during this last 46 years since then. He turns your night into day.

You will always be hoodwinked by the cessationist doctrine of demons to keep you weak, until you at least believe and accept this fact about covenant law. It took me 6 years after becoming informed to actually repent and receive the Holy Spirit, AND salvation. Without the Spirit inside you with evidence, you will only be learning, but never arrive at the Truth.

It was the same with the Old Covenant. Nothing ceased; not a jot or a tittle until all was fulfilled. The New Covenant is completely different from the Old ministry of death. This is of the Spirit, and like it or not, supernatural.

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER OF GOD.
I couldn't be more wrong, why, because you said so? The scriptures bear me out.
 

1stCenturyLady

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I couldn't be more wrong, why, because you said so? The scriptures bear me out.


Because you are ignorant of covenant laws.

Nothing ceases during a covenant, and this one is of the Spirit, so saying the gifts of the Spirit of our New Covenant have ceased, is unscriptural. You have a lot to learn as does anyone in cessationist denominations of those who lack the power of the gospel of Christ.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
 
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DJT_47

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Because you are ignorant of covenant laws.

Nothing ceases during a covenant, and this one is of the Spirit, so saying the gifts of the Spirit of our New Covenant have ceased, is unscriptural. You have a lot to learn as does anyone in cessationist denominations of those who lack the power of the gospel of Christ.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
I am not scripturally ignorant. Cite scriptures to support your words or say nothing.
 

1stCenturyLady

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I am not scripturally ignorant. Cite scriptures to support your words or say nothing.

Galatians 3:
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Those confirm covenant laws. Everything inside a covenant through its duration CANNOT CEASE.

In 1 Corinthians 3 tongues will only cease when we see (WITH OUR EYES, AND EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM) Him FACE TO FACE.

Open your mind and receive belief, and discard ignorant unbelief.
 
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DJT_47

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Galatians 3:
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Those confirm covenant laws. Everything inside a covenant through its duration CANNOT CEASE.

In 1 Corinthians 3 tongues will only cease when we see (WITH OUR EYES, AND EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM) Him FACE TO FACE.

Open your mind and receive belief, and discard ignorant unbelief.
You've deviated from the specific subject with macro scriptures. Let's get back to specifics related to spiritual gifts
 

1stCenturyLady

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You've deviated from the specific subject with macro scriptures. Let's get back to specifics related to spiritual gifts
Okay. They are part of our New Covenant. What makes you think they have ceased? Are you going to use human reasoning, or church history like foolish church Reformationists? After all, the only ones who do not receive the gifts are ones who do not receive the Holy Spirit. They didn't call that worldly pagan saturated time of church history the dark ages for nothing!
 
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DJT_47

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Okay. They are part of our New Covenant. What makes you think they have ceased? Are you going to use human reasoning, or church history like foolish church Reformationists? After all, the only ones who do not receive the gifts are ones who do not receive the Holy Spirit. They didn't call that worldly pagan saturated time of church history the dark ages for nothing!
I thought I laid it out concisely in my OP. But in a nutshell, the gifts, or enabling of the spirit to manifest itself in certain individuals, was done by the laying on of the apostle's hands, as promised to them by Christ as the power from on high in Luke 24:47. They are dead, so by virtue of their death, the miraculous gifts or manifestations of the Spirit have ceased. Plus, the gifts served a purpose then as they had no written word as we do which is the complete word of God. And if it's the complete word, why do we need more words of wisdom, or knowledge, or prophesy, or tongues, etc.? Plus there are sufficient warnings in both the OT and NT about tampering with the word of God by adding to or taking away from it. And who's truly performing miracles, or healing people, etc? If someone were able to do these things there would be no sickness or hospitals full of people, and for sure, no Christians would be ill.
 

marks

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And if it's the complete word, why do we need more words of wisdom, or knowledge, or prophesy, or tongues, etc.?
It's about ministering to each other in the ability provided by the Holy Spirit.

Something I've come to understand, the Christian Life is about communion in love. Which is to say, I commune with you and with God and with all our other brothers and sisters. Communion isn't just about being together, its participating together.

The communion of giving is that we join together to give to another. The communion of suffering is that as we suffer, we share the experience of others.

The communion of giving, isn't just that you and I join together to give. We likewise join with God, and He and you and I jointly give a gift. He gives us the gift of giving, and we give a gift of money, or things.

The communion of suffering is that we are bonded together by a common endurance, but we are also bonded with Christ, Who gave us the example of obedience in suffering.

And likewise the ways we serve each other are joined with God in the gifts of the Spirit. And while in some cases, hands were laid to impart gifts, but not in all cases, and we shouldn't make that a rule. That's not what the Bible teaches, rather, as God, or as the Holy Spirit wills (depending on how you read that verse).

Much love!