Split within the Southern Baptist Church

[Ezra]

This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.



once again women are a very vital part of the Church. the man was given the responsibility to Lead . He stands the greater judgement . this does not make the women a lesser part .. should we remove all the words i highlighted in red?

 

[Grailhunter]

i am not male dominant women have a BIG place in the Church. .but honestly God placed man the head do we go against what scriptures say or do we just ignore them

It is not a matter of going against scriptures....things change. We learn as we go.
Christ made modifications in His day.

The whole static thing leads to quite the quagmire....Are we required to believe the world is flat, have slaves, have multi-wives and sell our daughters off to be sex slaves....should we stop having wedding ceremonies? The Holy Spirit has taught us a higher morality. Women are equal members in Christianity. In marriage women should know their place and if they do not know...spank them....No! I would enjoy that too much! LOL In marriage we are two mules pulling a cart. If you love your wife, she has a little bit of an edge....ain't nobody happy unless mama is happy!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.



once again women are a very vital part of the Church. the man was given the responsibility to Lead . He stands the greater judgement . this does not make the women a lesser part .. should we remove all the words i highlighted in red?

I agree with the word of God in positions of the offices of authority in " church" rule, as a deacon or bishop.
Jesus gave all this command,
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature,
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Acts 10:42 - And he
commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Matthew 10:7 - And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Daniel 12:3 - And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Matthew 10:27 - What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This is the command to all believers ! We must be instant in season and out, to give answer to the " hope" that is in us !

I do understand what it is you're saying and I say if God tells us to preach or share the good news, it is commanded!
To have rule as in decency and order in the churches, then I say follow the exhortations and examples we have in the inspired word of God!

 

[Ezra]

I do understand what it is you're saying and I say if God tells us to preach or share the good news, it is commanded!
To have rule as in decency and order in the churches, then I say follow the exhortations and examples we have in the inspired word of God!

preaching comes in many different ways once again i am not one of these women be silent in Church..i know of some churches that the women dont vote. i dont agree with that . every thing i pointed out is leadership in the Church.. have i ever listened to a woman teach /preach? yes a women i grew up around was ministering/evangelizing at a local church. her brother and i was great friends . i consider her family i just dont go there as in not preach with her out of respect. her mom was like my 2nd mom growing up

 

[Josho]

Southern Baptists lost one of their biggest congregations last week amid tensions in the largest U.S. Protestant denomination over women at the pulpit.

One of largest Christian churches in US departs Southern Baptists following vote to ban women from pulpit

The North Carolina-based Elevation Church disaffiliated from the Southern Baptist Convention last week after the denomination banned women from teaching.

www.foxnews.com

I did not know they were Southern baptist.

 

[Behold]

But Christianity was never a static religion.

Christianity isn't a religion.

Religion is man reaching for God.

Christianity is God becoming a Man to deal with the sin of the world.

Not everyone can understand that amazing distinction, but that wont change it.


Also, its not up to man to decide to change the NT rules that the bible has stated, via Paul's doctrine, tho a lot of people think they are the ones who should be changing them.

Paul is really clear regarding women Pastors.

Its regarding the qualification.
Its this one

"Husband of one wife"... So, if a woman can meet that qualification, then she is qualified to be a Pastor of a Local Church.

Lesbian marriages, need not apply.
Personal opinion, .. have at it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Christianity isn't a religion.

Afternoon!
You and I have talked about this before.
Don't care what you call it.....
I will continue calling it a religion.

 

[Triumph1300]

I thought this issue was about female "pastors", not about female evangelists, preachers, etc.
But maybe I am wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

Also, its not up to man to decide to change the NT rules that the bible has stated, via Paul's doctrine, tho a lot of people think they are the ones who should be changing them.

Most of it is not changing the NT rules. Christ and the Apostles did not speak against slavery, polygamy and concubinage and they did not say you could not have a wedding.

So now the Holy Spirit has taught us that slavery is wrong, polygamy is wrong, concubinage is wrong, and wedding ceremonies are right.

 

[Grailhunter]

Paul is really clear regarding women Pastors.

Its regarding the qualification.
Its this one

"Husband of one wife"... So, if a woman can meet that qualification, then she is qualified to be a Pastor of a Local Church.

Lesbian marriages, need not apply.
Personal opinion, .. have at it.

It is a matter of right and wrong. If you know it is wrong, it is sin onto you.
Christ was not a woman hater.

There is no justification for Christianity to continue to be a woman hating religion.

Slavery is wrong and putting women under subjugation.....millions and millions made subjugated and made second rate citizens for millenniums, not only in society but in Christianity....it is a disgrace to Christ and the Holy Spirit. How long have we been filled with the Holy Spirit but yet most have not caught on to the most elementary concept of right and wrong. Using the Bible to mistreat women? You should be ashamed of yourself. Does it get your jollies off!!!! For Heaven's sakes! you have a mother, is she second rate in your eyes? How about God? Is she second rate in Christ's eyes?

Back in the day Christ and the Apostles did not speak against slavery, polygamy and concubinage or the second rate status of women because the amount of effort that would have taken would have put salvation on the back burner....As Christ said....things for the Holy Spirit to teach us.

 

[Grailhunter]

I thought this issue was about female "pastors", not about female evangelists, preachers, etc.
But maybe I am wrong.

No it about the split in the Southern Baptist Church and why.

 

[Behold]

I will continue calling it a religion.

Im sure you will.

 

[Behold]

I thought this issue was about female "pastors", not about female evangelists, preachers, etc.
But maybe I am wrong.

"women" can execute any other ministry, according to the NT.

But just as Jesus is a Male and the Head of the Bride, so is the Male the head of the local assembly.

I didn't read that the SBC said that a woman can preach or teach.

Its strictly the "Pastor of a Church" that they are not going to authorize.

 

[Behold]

Most of it is not changing the NT rules. Christ and the Apostles

When Christ and the Apostle were together, they were not writing the rules for the body of Christ.
They were dealing only with the House of Israel, under the Old Covenant.

Once the Cross was raised, the NT "church" was born and that is when Jesus sent in Paul and the "church doctrine" is manifested.

 

[Behold]

It is a matter of right and wrong. If you know it is wrong, it is sin onto you.

The unbelievers have sin.
The born again are "made righteous"., having become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

Christ was not a woman hater.

Its a very "worldly" way of thinking to connect "hating women" with NT doctrine.
Of course this world system wants women in the pulpit, just like they want women driving Tanks and wearing a badge and holding a gun.
The world system makes no distinction between female and male at this point in time, and its good to know that "christians' have not been deceived into that mentally bent perspective that the world system would have them obey.
Don't you agree, Grailhunter?

There is no justification for Christianity to continue to be a woman hating religion.

If the NT says "no" and the world says "yes', then you dont agree with the world if you're are born again.
Not ever.

Slavery is wrong and putting women under subjugation.....millions and millions made subjugated and made second rate citizens for millenniums, not only in society but in Christianity...

Thats another bumper sticker from the late '60's in the USA when women were "burning their bra's" and so forth.

Women outside the USA probably can relate to some of the "glass ceiling" concepts, that are taught by the secular community, but, in the real world, women are in charge, everywhere you look.

Look at this forum.
What. ? is it 3 or 4 female mods here?

Do you suppose they all feel "subjugated"?

.it is a disgrace to Christ and the Holy Spirit. How long have we been filled with the Holy Spirit but yet most have not caught on to the most elementary concept of right and wrong.

I can't speak for you in that regard.
I dont know what you do in your personal life.

Back in the day Christ and the Apostles did not speak against slavery, polygamy and concubinage or the second rate status of women because the amount of effort that would have taken would have put salvation on the back burner....As Christ said....things for the Holy Spirit to teach us.

The world they lived in has not changed that much today.
Those same people who keep a woman's head wrapped in a sheet and drink camel urine, all use Iphones now.
But their hearts and their culture is the same as it ever was and ever will be.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Women first discovered Jesus had resurrected. Jesus had women as Disciples, students, in his number. And later they were his Apostles. Paul praised the women that served as teachers, preachers, in his churches.

God highly favored a woman to bring The Word to the world. It is false for anyone to claim God would not call a woman to then preach his word.

Especially when gender is not the sexist barrier it was, is, in Judaism (Orthodox) today. We are all one in the Christ who is in us.

As long as God calls women to preach, bigots be damned.

 

[Grailhunter]

When Christ and the Apostle were together, they were not writing the rules for the body of Christ.
They were dealing only with the House of Israel, under the Old Covenant.

Once the Cross was raised, the NT "church" was born and that is when Jesus sent in Paul and the "church doctrine" is manifested.

At times the Apostles were shocked at the things that Christ proclaimed.....He lost all or most of His disciples over the Bread and Wine Ritual. His ruling on divorce upset the Apostles and the reading suggests an argument between Him and His Apostles.

Christ told them there were a lot of things He needed to tell them, but they could not bear it then ....imagine if He told them that women would have all rights and privileges in the church. Do you think they could have bore that.....or would they have just walked away? Christ said the Holy Spirit would come and guide and teach us.....That is what happened.....

What you are proposing is a static and stale religion, that cannot change to address modern issues unless they are written word for word in the scriptures .....Bible Only right? Well no one practices Bible only because most people would not live like that. Most people are not going to believe the world is flat.

Still religious freedom.....so there ya go. For me Christianity is a living and dynamic religion and God counts on me to know right from wrong.

 

[Grailhunter]

he unbelievers have sin.
The born again are "made righteous"., having become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

Which means you can believe anything......cause the Holy Spirit told ya so. And you wonder why there are 30.000 Protestant denominations?!

BY THE WORD OF GOD I HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MISTREAT WOMEN AND IT IS RIGHT BECAUSE THAT IS THE CHARACTER OF MY GOD!

 

[Grailhunter]

The world they lived in has not changed that much today.

You living in a fantasy world.

 

[Grailhunter]

hose same people who keep a woman's head wrapped in a sheet and drink camel urine, all use Iphones now.
But their hearts and their culture is the same as it ever was and ever will be.

What does it matter it is not our religion.