St. Francis of Assisi

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What do you think in regards to St. Francis of Assisi?

  • Francis of Assisi was crazy and unworthy to emulate.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Francis of Assisi is beneath my consideration.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

lawrance

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Mar 30, 2011
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I would like to share a letterof a man who knew what I know, and he had his tongue and right arm cut out andoff to stop him from sharing.



Thefollowing is a letter by Saint. Maximus the Confessor and it explains in a veryunique way what I have been saying, that people who know God do not sin.





Themanner of birth from God within us is two-fold: the one bestows the grace ofadoption, which is entirely present in potency in those who are born of God;the other introduces, wholly by active exertion, that grace which deliberatelyreorients the entire free choice of the one being born of God toward the Godwho gives birth. The first bears the grace, present in potency throughfaith alone; but the second, beyond, also engenders in the knower the sublimelydivine likeness of the One known, that likeness being effected preciselythrough knowledge. Therefore the first manner of birth is observed in somebecause their will, not yet fully detached from its propensity to the flesh,has yet to be wholly endowed with the Spirit by participation in the divinemysteries that are made known through active endeavor. Theinclination to sin does not disappear as long as they will it. For the Spirit does not give birth to anunwilling will, but converts the willing will toward deification. (So a person doesn’t stop sinning justbecause they will not to sin.) Whoever has participated in thisdeification through cognizance experience is incapable of reverting from rightdiscernment in truth, once he has achieved this in action, to something elsebesides, which only pretends to be that same discernment. (Once a personcomes to know God, through the Holy Spirit, they are incapable of reverting totheir sinful ways.) It is like the eye, which, once it has looked upon thesun, cannot mistake it for the moon or any of the other stars in theheavens. With those undergoing the(second mode of) birth, the Holy Spirit takes the whole of their free choiceand translates it completely from earth to heaven, and, through the trueknowledge acquired by exertion, transfigures the mind with the blessed lightrays of our God and Father, such that the mind is deemed another “God,” insofaras in its habitude if experiences, by grace, that which God himself does notexperience but “is” in his very essence. With those undergoing this second mode of baptism, their free choiceclearly becomes sinless in virtue and knowledge, as they are unable to negatewhat they have actively discerned through experience. So even if we have the Spirit of adoption, who is himself theSeed for enduring those begotten (through baptism) with the likeness of theSower, but do not present him with a will cleansed of any inclination ordisposition to something else, we therefore, even after being born of water andSpirit (Jn 3:5), willingly sin. Butwere we to prepare our will with knowledge to receive the operation of theseagents-water and Spirit, I mean-then the mystical water would, through ourpractical life, cleanse our conscience, and the life-giving Spirit would bringabout unchanging perfection of the good in us through knowledge acquired inexperience. Precisely for that reasonhe leaves, to each of us who are still able to sin, the sheer desire tosurrender our whole selves willing to the Spirit.



St. Maximus the Confessor


Phffff !
 

Thankful 1

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Dec 2, 2010
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Maybe if the forum can do a better job of keeping the words separated from on another, you might be able to read this post. I will try again with smaller type.



This man paid a price to share what Jesus taught him, maybe you should pay him some respect.



The following is a letter by Saint. Maximus the Confessor and it explains in a very unique way what I have been saying, that people who know God do not sin.





The manner of birth from God within us is two-fold: the one bestows the grace of adoption, which is entirely present in potency in those who are born of God; the other introduces, wholly by active exertion, that grace which deliberately reorients the entire free choice of the one being born of God toward the God who gives birth. The first bears the grace, present in potency through faith alone; but the second, beyond, also engenders in the knower the sublimely divine likeness of the One known, that likeness being effected precisely through knowledge. Therefore the first manner of birth is observed in some because their will, not yet fully detached from its propensity to the flesh, has yet to be wholly endowed with the Spirit by participation in the divine mysteries that are made known through active endeavor. The inclination to sin does not disappear as long as they will it. For the Spirit does not give birth to an unwilling will, but converts the willing will toward deification. (So a person doesn’t stop sinning just because they will not to sin.) Whoever has participated in this deification through cognizance experience is incapable of reverting from right discernment in truth, once he has achieved this in action, to something else besides, which only pretends to be that same discernment. (Once a person comes to know God, through the Holy Spirit, they are incapable of reverting to their sinful ways.) It is like the eye, which, once it has looked upon the sun, cannot mistake it for the moon or any of the other stars in the heavens. With those undergoing the (second mode of) birth, the Holy Spirit takes the whole of their free choice and translates it completely from earth to heaven, and, through the true knowledge acquired by exertion, transfigures the mind with the blessed light rays of our God and Father, such that the mind is deemed another “God,” insofar as in its habitude if experiences, by grace, that which God himself does not experience but “is” in his very essence. With those undergoing this second mode of baptism, their free choice clearly becomes sinless in virtue and knowledge, as they are unable to negate what they have actively discerned through experience. So even if we have the Spirit of adoption, who is himself the Seed for enduring those begotten (through baptism) with the likeness of the Sower, but do not present him with a will cleansed of any inclination or disposition to something else, we therefore, even after being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5), willingly sin. But were we to prepare our will with knowledge to receive the operation of these agents-water and Spirit, I mean-then the mystical water would, through our practical life, cleanse our conscience, and the life-giving Spirit would bring about unchanging perfection of the good in us through knowledge acquired in experience. Precisely for that reason he leaves, to each of us who are still able to sin, the sheer desire to surrender our whole selves willing to the Spirit.




St. Maximus the Confessor


 

rockytopva

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Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible. - St Francis of Assisi
 

rockytopva

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Some more quotes!

* It is not fitting, when one is in Gods service, to have a gloomy face or a chilling look. *(2) Above all the grace and gifts that Christ gives to his beloved is that of overcoming self. -Saint Francis of Assisi
 

WISDOM CALLED

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Nov 21, 2011
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To know St Francis is to love him. His simplicity and joyous nature.

Would Jesus ask St Francis to build a Church? No. People were warned not to build upon his foundation with building materials.
He refuted anyone that worshipped him, and rebuked the Apostles for being intoxicated by his energy.

The original meaning of church was community like he and his followers lived in community.
 
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Prentis

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To know St Francis is to love him. His simplicity and joyous nature.

Would Jesus ask St Francis to build a Church? No. People were warned not to build upon his foundation with building materials.
He refuted anyone that worshipped him, and rebuked the Apostles for being intoxicated by his energy.

The original meaning of church was community like he and his followers lived in community.

Amen!

We are to live in community, seeking his Spirit, walking in his power... In brotherly love, and in his life. :)
 
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Erudite Celt

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Considering I am about to finish my orientation phase with the Secular Franciscan Order, and I was starting a conversation with another member who considers themselves outside the faith, yet percieves or respects St. Francis of Assisi, I was thinking this is a good place to start a discussion on St. Francis of Assisi's ethos and his influence or impact that he has had in the world and within ourselves. I have no idea where this discussion will lead us. However, I do plan to discuss more when I find a more appropriate forum for the discussion. Eventually, I should like to discuss the Rule of St. Francis for Seculars individually and how other Christians might reflect on scriptural aspects of the Rule as well as how to impliment the rule or adapt it to specific circumstances.

As such, I am leaving the discussion open and hope that the poll question and answers will help direct the discussion. It is not really meant as an apologetic, just a sort of personal reflection from other people.
While I certainly think Assisi was a good Christian, it is Christ we are asked to emulate. Christ in his human state was perfect, a lamb without blemish. Why would any Christian want to emulate Assisi or any other "Saint". I would also ask you, how do you know Assisi is in heaven? John in the book of Revelation was moved to tears when he discovered that the book of life was sealed and no one but God the Father knew the names within! Not even the Pope! Revelation 5:3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
 

alexander99

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Mar 7, 2012
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My prayers are with all of you folks whose pets are gone or sick. I know from experience the pain one feels when a pet has to be "put to sleep".

I detest "people" who abuse animals. Animals are a gift to us from God, but thats not news to us.

I subscribe to a site called "Care2Causes. I read a few days ago about a lady drining home at night, she saw something she though was an injured animal on the road side. She turned around and found that it was a" Wabbit". She went to get it but it ran into the road, so she prayed "God help me catch this rabbit. Well, she caught it and the next day went looking for its ownerm whom she found. The owner's kids didnt close the hutch so the owner asked if she wanted it. She did. A happy ending! I wish the media would promote more stories like that.

I happened to see another thread on CA where someone said animals don't go to heaven. I hope that isnt the case!
 

Episkopos

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A champion of God is just that...no church system can claim that person as theirs. The very difference of Francis from the standard pew warmers proves that the church has nothing to do with the personal zeal of an individual and this includes Francis.

If the churches admire him so much why not follow his example?

So if we agree with the fervency of a Francis then why not do as he did?

The truth is that the church system usually persecutes the champions of the faith. Francis was selected because of his compliance and simplicity towards ecclesiastical authority...his fervency notwithstanding. There were thousands of groups like the Franciscans....yet the vatican only accepted the Augustinians and Franciscans...for political reasons. These 2 were deemed to be controllable and served to defend the vatican against all the other groups who were actually trying to follow Christ. By rubber stamping these 2 compliant groups they sought to control the free expressions of the other Christ seekers.

The RC system like any other worldly system seeks to control. Church history...as it is spoon fed to us...is the history of control of men. The bible on the other hand is the history (to that point) of what God is doing.

Are men just slow to learn? Or do men knowingly seek to control others in order to safeguard their positions and lifestyles?
 

Mungo

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A champion of God is just that...no church system can claim that person as theirs. The very difference of Francis from the standard pew warmers proves that the church has nothing to do with the personal zeal of an individual and this includes Francis.

If the churches admire him so much why not follow his example?

So if we agree with the fervency of a Francis then why not do as he did?

The truth is that the church system usually persecutes the champions of the faith. Francis was selected because of his compliance and simplicity towards ecclesiastical authority...his fervency notwithstanding. There were thousands of groups like the Franciscans....yet the vatican only accepted the Augustinians and Franciscans...for political reasons. These 2 were deemed to be controllable and served to defend the vatican against all the other groups who were actually trying to follow Christ. By rubber stamping these 2 compliant groups they sought to control the free expressions of the other Christ seekers.

The RC system like any other worldly system seeks to control. Church history...as it is spoon fed to us...is the history of control of men. The bible on the other hand is the history (to that point) of what God is doing.

Are men just slow to learn? Or do men knowingly seek to control others in order to safeguard their positions and lifestyles?

What a load of rubbish.

You are entitles to your own opinions but not to your own facts.
 

Episkopos

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What a load of rubbish.

You are entitles to your own opinions but not to your own facts.
My apologies...it was the Dominicans and the Franciscans...not the Augustinians! :)

To be truly honest one must ask...who are those with a misguided fervency in Christendom?

The Buddhists have their immolators...the Muslims their suicide bombers. But who are the misguided ones in the Christian camp?
 

kiwimac

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Considering I am about to finish my orientation phase with the Secular Franciscan Order, and I was starting a conversation with another member who considers themselves outside the faith, yet percieves or respects St. Francis of Assisi, I was thinking this is a good place to start a discussion on St. Francis of Assisi's ethos and his influence or impact that he has had in the world and within ourselves. I have no idea where this discussion will lead us. However, I do plan to discuss more when I find a more appropriate forum for the discussion. Eventually, I should like to discuss the Rule of St. Francis for Seculars individually and how other Christians might reflect on scriptural aspects of the Rule as well as how to impliment the rule or adapt it to specific circumstances.

As such, I am leaving the discussion open and hope that the poll question and answers will help direct the discussion. It is not really meant as an apologetic, just a sort of personal reflection from other people.

As a Tertiary, I find St. Francis speaks to me.
 

epostle1

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I was invested into the Third Order in 1977, but it's been years since I've said my office. There is a Third Order meeting in a neighboring city, but I can't get there. I am anxious to start saying my office again. I have written to them to start a group in my own city, and I am waiting to hear from them.

san_damiano_cross.gif
 

theophilus

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You overlooked another possible option: sane but unworthy of emulation. A person can be sane but still hold erroneous opinions.

A possible but unlikely option would be insane but worthy of emulation.