Suffering

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TLHKAJ

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
6,973
8,499
113
US
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, but I wonder if we'd suffer if we'd never sinned.
I don't think so. But this goes all the way to Adam. After the fall, every person is born into sin. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

Suffering comes just by virtue of being born with a fallen nature. It's a given. And after we come to Christ, there is still imperfection in our own selves. Perfection is by faith through Christ, being clothed with His righteousness. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Suffering is inevitable. We may not suffer as sinners after coming to Christ. But once we come to Christ, and we are under the blood, we will still suffer for His name's sake if we're living godly lives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mayflower

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
4,674
2,482
113
71
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't think so. But this goes all the way to Adam. After the fall, every person is born into sin. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

Suffering comes just by virtue of being born with a fallen nature. It's a given. And after we come to Christ, there is still imperfection in our own selves. Perfection is by faith through Christ, being clothed with His righteousness. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Suffering is inevitable. We may not suffer as sinners after coming to Christ. But once we come to Christ, and we are under the blood, we will still suffer for His name's sake if we're living godly lives.
It seems to me that when I am faced with temptation, my decision to sin or not sin has nothing to do with Adam, unless I point to Adam and say, "He sinned, so why can't I?"
 

TLHKAJ

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
6,973
8,499
113
US
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It seems to me that when I am faced with temptation, my decision to sin or not sin has nothing to do with Adam, unless I point to Adam and say, "He sinned, so why can't I?"
We are born with a fallen nature due to Adam's fall. That doesn't take our decision away of whether we will choose faith in Christ or not.

Romans 5:14-19
[14]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[15]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[16]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[19]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:21-22
[21]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Is resisting temptation always easy?
No, it's not.
But we are helped by the Holy Spirit.
Don't you find that you sin a lot less as time goes by?
No need to answer a personal question, however, this is how it should be.
We grow in our faith and become ever more aware of sins and how to avoid them.

However, temptation has nothing to do with repentance.
We repent ONE TIME...
We are sorry for our sin and ask forgiveness every time.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
You could be right about suffering being evil. I was only considering God being long-suffering. A few verses that come to mind that seem to say there is different “suffering”…suffering for evil doing and suffering for doing good? As in 1 Peter 3:17-18 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. [18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Of course you're right in your last sentence of 1 Peter 3:17-18
How I understand this entire passage is that we are to do good and bring good into the world.
IOW, it's not enough to NOT do evil....
It's necessary to do good...
And if we have to suffer to do this good, then so be it.
Better to suffer to do good...
than to suffer doing evil.
We sometimes say that no good deed goes unpunished...this is how it is sometimes.
You do something good for someone, and they repay you with unkindness.
No problem...we do it for God.
Colossians 3-17


And 1 Peter 4:14-16 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. [15] But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. [16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
Amen!

God is long-suffering in doing good, always patient. So maybe you are right that suffering is evil. What is the difference in suffering for evil going and suffering for doing well?
Philippians 4:13-14 i can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. [14] Notwithstanding you have well done, that you did communicate with my affliction.
In fact, we do what Philippians 4:13-14 states.
IF we do our good deeds and all our work FOR GOD, and not for man (although man does benefit!)
For instance, we might invite someone over for dinner because we see that they need the rest - but then they don't invite us for dinner, ever.
So what? We did it for the glory to God and should be happy to have done our good deed.

How do we suffer for evil going?
It's Karma...what goes out comes back to you.
First you suffer because evil is bad for the body and mind...
and, in the end, you suffer because you lose friends, or you end up in prison, or who knows what else.

Philippians 4:14 is Paul thanking the Philippians for having helped him get food while he was in prison.
 

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
4,674
2,482
113
71
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are born with a fallen nature due to Adam's fall. That doesn't take our decision away of whether we will choose faith in Christ or not.

Romans 5:14-19
[14]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[15]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[16]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[19]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:21-22
[21]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Had we been in Adam's shoes, don't you suppose we would have sinned, too?
 

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
4,674
2,482
113
71
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, it's not.
But we are helped by the Holy Spirit.
Don't you find that you sin a lot less as time goes by?
No need to answer a personal question, however, this is how it should be.
We grow in our faith and become ever more aware of sins and how to avoid them.

However, temptation has nothing to do with repentance.
We repent ONE TIME...
We are sorry for our sin and ask forgiveness every time.
I am finding as time goes by that temptation can grow stronger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lambano

TLHKAJ

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
6,973
8,499
113
US
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Had we been in Adam's shoes, don't you suppose we would have sinned, too?
Well, it's hard to say. I just don't know. I'd say, eventually someone probably would have.
 

Mayflower

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2018
7,820
11,768
113
Bluffton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Repentance means: Stop sinning.

I guess what I am going at is repentance starts inside and works its way out. Stopping sin is an action. But "change of mind" is what is required first. It is part of it. It is why transformation of our thinking and understanding the Word of God is so important.
 

Mayflower

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2018
7,820
11,768
113
Bluffton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I found this for repentance:

Definition of REPENTANCE

Remorse or contrition for past conduct or sin. synonym: penitence

-starts in the thinking... Can't stop sinning without that inward transformation. Neither can suffering stop without transformation of thoughts/feelings. Just typing my thoughts
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I found this for repentance:

Definition of REPENTANCE

Remorse or contrition for past conduct or sin. synonym: penitence

-starts in the thinking... Can't stop sinning without that inward transformation. Neither can suffering stop without transformation of thoughts/feelings. Just typing my thoughts
Hi Mayflower,
I looked up the definition for repentance.
It's a dictionary definition.
In theology REPENTANCE means to change direction.

It did also say this in your link:
REPENTANCE adds the implication of a resolve to change.

This means a change in the direction one is taking.
A change of mind.
A change that causes a change in character.

We use this word incorrectly to mean SORROW FOR SINS.
I'm fighting a losing battle...!
But it's just good to know this if the subject ever comes up.


upload_2022-1-19_1-52-48.jpeg
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I am finding as time goes by that temptation can grow stronger.
I liked @Mayflower 's post no. 49.

She explained it well.

We're all different, but it seems as though sinning should become less.
This is no place to discuss this personally, but it, maybe, should be looked into.
Not that God stops loving us...He knows our problems even though others don't.
 

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
4,674
2,482
113
71
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I guess what I am going at is repentance starts inside and works its way out. Stopping sin is an action. But "change of mind" is what is required first. It is part of it. It is why transformation of our thinking and understanding the Word of God is so important.
Yes, but changing our minds can be easier than resisting temptation, don't you think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mayflower

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
4,674
2,482
113
71
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I liked @Mayflower 's post no. 49.

She explained it well.

We're all different, but it seems as though sinning should become less.
This is no place to discuss this personally, but it, maybe, should be looked into.
Not that God stops loving us...He knows our problems even though others don't.

All things being equal, sinning should be less, but if temptation becomes stronger, then there might be a problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

Mayflower

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2018
7,820
11,768
113
Bluffton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, but changing our minds can be easier than resisting temptation, don't you think?

If you have made up your mind about something, it is tons easier to resist temptation. In the end like with a boundary, no means no. Like a drug or alcohol addict it comes down to putting their foot down that they will change. Period. Despite temptation.
 

Mayflower

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2018
7,820
11,768
113
Bluffton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All things being equal, sinning should be less, but if temptation becomes stronger, then there might be a problem.

When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. God is always stronger then temptation. One must allow Christ to strengthen them (Philippians 4:13).
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Concerning the topic of suffering. My grandsons homework tonight was to memorize Psalm 139:1-3.

O Lord, you have searched me, and have known me. You know my sitting down and my rising up, you discern my thought from far off. You search my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways.

i couldn’t stop thinking about the “and are acquainted with all my ways.” Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched (consider when the woman with the issue of blood reached out and touched…he felt her touch him) with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
 

Mayflower

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2018
7,820
11,768
113
Bluffton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Concerning the topic of suffering. My grandsons homework tonight was to memorize Psalm 139:1-3.

O Lord, you have searched me, and have known me. You know my sitting down and my rising up, you discern my thought from far off. You search my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways.

i couldn’t stop thinking about the “and are acquainted with all my ways.” Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched (consider when the woman with the issue of blood reached out and touched…he felt her touch him) with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


I am thankful God is with us in our time of need. My church is on a healing series and Isaiah 53:4 was shared.

Isaiah 53:3-5

"3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

It says He bore our briefs and carried our sorrows. He suffered so we wouldn't have to suffer. I guess I'm trying to figure out since we are already healed where working through things comes into play. Because sometimes working through things hurts.
 

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
Our God is heavy. He uses suffering to refine us. He didn't say it would be easy and if I knew how much I would suffer I would have had second thoughts about all of this. But as he says: "For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen."
@Mantis This is such a great verse.....

Paul suffered so much for the faith.....(2 Corinthians 11.26: "In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren"...) and yet he could also say, like you quoted: 'our light affliction'......... :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mantis