SUPER Churches!!!

[Born_Again]

I have seen in my own community and especially on TV these churches that are just monstrous in size and congregation.(Some look like stadiums) I've always been cautious of them because it seemed to me too much like the churches of the OT that crucified Christ. The pastors always seem arrogant and there is no way all of the members of those congregations are truly walking with Christ. I often wonder if Christ feels these super churches bring glory to Him. When I think of real faith and a real walk with Christ it always seems more humble. I imagine it would be hard to have any kind of relationship with the pastor in a place that big. What is the attraction of the super church that gets so many members?

Is it possible that these super churches could in fact be leading His people astray? Is it truly about Christ or about money? Or Has Christ truly blessed them with that size of church? I have so many questions about them.......

 

[the stranger]

One huge benefit with a large church is the ability to join so many small groups within the church for different reasons but all in Christ. Also service times are more than once a week. Another reason, whether good or not, as many people feel uncomfortable being the new one in town so to speak. Never an issue at a large. And kid and teen programs can be amazing not to mention the ability to watch the service on dvd afterwards if you miss the service. All churches have their pros and cons and both big and small can be biblical or non biblical. I have been to both. Ups and downs to each but to all and for all may the glory of God be shared and preached.

 

[BlackManINC]

I have seen in my own community and especially on TV these churches that are just monstrous in size and congregation.(Some look like stadiums) I've always been cautious of them because it seemed to me too much like the churches of the OT that crucified Christ. The pastors always seem arrogant and there is no way all of the members of those congregations are truly walking with Christ. I often wonder if Christ feels these super churches bring glory to Him. When I think of real faith and a real walk with Christ it always seems more humble. I imagine it would be hard to have any kind of relationship with the pastor in a place that big. What is the attraction of the super church that gets so many members?

Is it possible that these super churches could in fact be leading His people astray? Is it truly about Christ or about money? Or Has Christ truly blessed them with that size of church? I have so many questions about them.......

I would suggest that you pray over this matter and allow God to reveal to you if a particular church no matter the size is the right one for you. We war against spiritual entities, not the flesh, so I suggest you test the spirit, and if the spirit that works within this church does not profess sound Biblical doctrine as plainly understood by reading the book with your own two eyes on any issue, whether its about Christ or money, old and new testament, then let that church be accursed. This includes even the creation account and the very nature of God himself. You will certainly be told that letting the Bible speak for itself from beginning to end is not a salvation issue because we are "saved by grace through faith alone", and I can tell you that this is a lie from the pit of hell for even Satan quoted scripture. He comes in very subtly, getting you to believe a little lie is the hook to get you to believe in a bigger lie. If Satan can present himself to you as an angel of light, then be aware that his disciples will also present themselves as ministers of truth. There are lots of rats within the church that need to be exposed and eliminated.

 

[pom2014]

Huge churches serve no one but themselves.

The priests have it as a career with salaries, fringe benefits and great renown.

They have their reward here in this world.

I'd keep far away from these Levitical priests.

 

[the stranger]

I once went to a small minority church who believed in tithing and offerings THREE TIMES every Sunday morning. No one could or did explain why. The pastor knew scripture atleast as good is the scribes. He was unreal on that level. Giving for leader and church support for the purpose of equality according to Paul I believe is what troubles many when some church leaders receive more weekly than others do yearly.

 

[Born_Again]

I realistically have no desire to join one. I have just always be weary of them I wanted to see if my perception of them was accurate. Thanks!!

 

[FHII]

Noah had 7 members in his Church. Moses had millions. Both of them had problems! I think the Church at Ephesus had 12.... Jesus had 11-13 strong followers (the 11 strong disciples, and I suppose Mary M. and Mom....), but at one time he had 5 thousand not counting women and children (could've been upwards to about 15,000 if you count them) and they all left.

It seems to me that you should judge the strength of a Church by the message being delivered. In other words, is the Truth being taught there and is it being implimented and enforced, as Paul did. Remember, he didn't just preach truth to the Galatians and Corinthians; he enforced it and wrote some pretty hot letters to them when they strayed.

My opinion.... The size of the Church doesn't matter. But a Truthful message and one that is enforced probably isn't going to keep a large crowd.

 

[marksman]

​I have noticed rightly or wrongly, that a lot of these sorts of discussions are at the level of [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]what[/SIZE] do you think? I have no problem with that but I cannot for the life of me understand how we can ever come to the knowledge of the truth unless we begin our deliberations with the word of God.

Therefore we have to start by asking "What does the scripture show regarding these matters" FIRST.

If you study the whole of the New Testament you will find the small fellowship and the large but not as we know it. This [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]is[/SIZE] not a comprehensive guide because space does not allow it but the church very clearly met in houses as in going from house to house and the church in your house etc. That is conclusive. In my study of houses of the time, the upper room was the place they usually met in. This room was of fairly standard proportions and could hold up to 30 people sitting round for a meal which is what the NTC did when they met.

Next the large church is there because there was only one church in each town. Note "the CHURCH (not churches) at Corinth. "The CHURCH at [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]Ephesus[/SIZE]." So [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]all[/SIZE] the churches meeting in the [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]homes[/SIZE] made [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]up [/SIZE]THE church in that town and the Elders presided over THE church in that town. That could mean the church in that town had 50 Elders. None of them had 'A' pastor in charge but some Elders did exercise a shepherding ministry.

​The church in any given town only existed because the church met in the home. Not the [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]other[/SIZE] way around. And very importantly, they were not divided up into spiritual tribal groups [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]with[/SIZE] different names so that they could claim a distinctive to somehow make them seem better.

​If we [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]followed[/SIZE] this pattern, [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]denominations[/SIZE] [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]would[/SIZE] cease to [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]exist and[/SIZE] christians living in the same street would not get in their cars and travel to all four corners of the [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]town[/SIZE] to [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]fellowship[/SIZE].

I have read over and over again that the best way to evangelise today is to start a church...in the home. I can understand that because a home does not soak up money to keep it functioning. A home does not need a [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]professional[/SIZE] paid christian to lead it. A home is cosy and welcoming and provides an intimate atmosphere. Inviting a person to have a meal [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]with[/SIZE] you is much easier than inviting them to a meeting full of religious activity. A home encourages dialogue and questions. A home offers [SIZE=18.6666564941406px]relationship[/SIZE] not religion.

For those reasons alone and I am sure you can add more, that is where a new church should always begin.

 

[Jem8990]

My church is fairly big as well, probably 5 thousand weekly goers?

I enjoy it though, you can have fellowship with more people and connect with new christians. But I also enjoy smaller churches as well

I think its good to be open to different things and not too narrow minded. Going out of your comfort zone also allows you to grow

 

[clark thompson]

I would never go to a super church, I think it is a better idea for many small churches to work together with activites reaching out to the world, than to have a massive church, I do not see a point in that.

 

[FHII]

Marksman, I've been through this with you before. Meeting in a house does not make it a Church. Furthermore, it is not conclusive. They did not meet solely in houses. Jesus, Peter and Paul off the top of my head taught in temples and synagogues. Furthermore, you should read 1 Cor 11. It first off speaks of coming together in a church, and second it excludes houses if you understand the context. Third, it speaks against that large meal you spoke of. Granted, it does give credence to what you said (in that, it was done), but Paul put an end to that practice.

In short, meeting in houses doesn't make something a Church. Meeting in large buildings doesn't make it a Church. Meeting on a ship wandering aimlessly in a storm doesn't make it a Church. BUT, it none of these places are excluded. They can and were Churches in the NT. The building itself didn't make it a Church. What you will find common in all churches is the coming together under leadership with one mind and one accord.

 

[marksman]

What I want to know is if the church did not meet in houses, why are there so many scriptures that say they did?


Act_2:46 And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

Act_5:42 And every day in the temple, and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching the gospel: Jesus Christ.

Act_8:3 But Saul ravaged the church, entering into every house. And dragging men and women, he delivered them up to prison.

Act_12:12 And thinking about it, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose last name was Mark; where many had gathered together to pray.

Act_20:20 and how I kept back nothing that was profitable, but have shown you and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,

Rom_16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epenetus, who is the first-fruits of Achaia to Christ.

1Co_16:15 But I exhort you, brothers. You know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruit of Achaia, and they appointed themselves to ministry to the saints.

1Co_16:19 The churches of Asia greet you. Aquila and Priscilla greet you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Col_4:15 Greet the brothers who are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church in his house.

Phm_1:2 and to Apphia the beloved, and to Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in your house.

2Jn_1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house, nor speak a greeting to him.

There is no mention of a church meeting in a church, and the synagogue was the place you found Jews who Paul was called to preach the gospel to. As a Rabbi, he was free to get up and say what he wanted to say in the synagogue. They however threw him out as he was preaching Jesus as the Messiah so it was obvious that was NOT where the church met.

Act_2:46 And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

And please note it says they shared FOOD, not shared communion.

 

[FHII]

Marksman, who said the churches didn't meet in houses? I certainly didn't. I acknowledge I made some goofy typos in my post, but I didn't say they didn't. My point was that meeting in a house -- or any other venue -- didn't make it "church". What happened when they got there did. Furthermore, houses weren't the only place churches met, and the verses you gave prove that.

 

[marksman]

Marksman, who said the churches didn't meet in houses? I certainly didn't. I acknowledge I made some goofy typos in my post, but I didn't say they didn't. My point was that meeting in a house -- or any other venue -- didn't make it "church". What happened when they got there did. Furthermore, houses weren't the only place churches met, and the verses you gave prove that.

​They met in the [SIZE=23.9999866485596px]temple[/SIZE] because they were Jews, not because they [SIZE=23.9999866485596px]were[/SIZE] the church. They were given the name of "The Way." and they were considered a sect of Judaism.

 

[FHII]

​They met in the [SIZE=23.99px]temple[/SIZE] because they were Jews, not because they [SIZE=23.99px]were[/SIZE] the church. They were given the name of "The Way." and they were considered a sect of Judaism.

You did not answer the question, nor did you address the main point. Can I, therefore, assume that you acknowledge that no one said they didn't meet in houses and that the physical building -- be it a house or a building -- doesn't make it a Church?

I assume that only because most people who don't answer the question or address the main point know they are mistaken and know the main point is valid. I am assuming that is the case with you.

 

[7angels]

Huge churches serve no one but themselves.

The priests have it as a career with salaries, fringe benefits and great renown.

They have their reward here in this world.

I'd keep far away from these Levitical priests.

do you know that america is not even in the top 10 of having the biggest churches? the top 10 biggest churches are all in nations that christians are being persecuted. the biggest churches if i remember correctly are in korea. their biggest church has 500k members. their churches are so stuffed that as new people come in they send out of their church at least as many members that were discipled out into the world to start new churches because they don't have room otherwise to keep bringing in new members because their churches are full to capacity. the korean christians are growing every single day even though they go through persecution from the government also. it seems for every christian that dies at least 2 more take their place. the korean churches are even sending people into china and the surrounding nations to share the gospel there too.

so having a big church is not wrong but in america it seems most of the big churches are playing church and not taking what the gospel says seriously. most of the big churches in america the pastors do not want to shake the boat so the Word ends up being watered down so they don't upset anyone. which is one reason revival rarely happens in america compared to the places where tribulations run rampant.

God bless

 

[Born_Again]

You did not answer the question, nor did you address the main point. Can I, therefore, assume that you acknowledge that no one said they didn't meet in houses and that the physical building -- be it a house or a building -- doesn't make it a Church?

I assume that only because most people who don't answer the question or address the main point know they are mistaken and know the main point is valid. I am assuming that is the case with you.

This also has nothing to do with my OP.

 

[marksman]

1 Corinthians 11 is a very interesting chapter. The word church is used twice and in both cases the Greek is ekklesia which means an assembly of Christians gathered for worship. There is no connotation of a building specifically for religious purposes. The many references to the church in the home would suggest that is where the New Testament Church met.

And it is interesting to note in verse 33 it says very clearly............

“So that, my brothers,[in] coming together to eat, wait for one another.” Coming together to eat...how many churches today come together to eat? When you read the whole chapter you discover that is the main subject matter.