Televangelists who use money for self-centerdness

[bigdummy]

I am curious as to how many on this forum believe that their should be a limit as to the percentage of the donations or offerings given to the leaders of the megachurches on T.V. such as Joice Meyers, Ken Kopland, Jessy Duplantis,Creflo Dollar, and others who spend millions on their personal luxuries such as multimillion dollar homes, airplanes,and other personal properties when the average members of their congregations are giving the money to help those less well off then they are and not to have it spent lavishley by the one preaching the gospel to them. When I say this I hope I am not speaking out of jelously as that is not my intention, but I feel that ministers or evangelists should follow the life style of Jesus and although I feel it is Gods desire for them to prosper, I have a hard time comparing their life styles to that of Jesus who lived off of the love and kindness of those who followed Him and to my knowledge owned nothing in this world but the clothes He wore. I read nowhere that He spent any of the money given to him for personal idems other than food (Judas perhaps but not Jesus) I can't help but feel that if they want to be millionairs they should get in another line of work, As I recall Paul worked part time as a tent maker to supply his needs and sent all the moneys he collected to support the various churches. does any of this make any sense?....Ray

 

[forgivenWretch]

Absolutely! Being a Christian should not be for profit. I feel as if Jesus were here now, He would again pull out a whip and run the money makers from the temple.Great post Ray!! Definitely something to think about.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Joyce Myer spends so much in other countries helping children. (Esp. in the underground trafficking of young girls sold into prostitution. She does alot more on this planet than I ever have...)The others, as I recall, don't mention any missions. It does cost a huge amount to be on TV and pay staff. ( And this is not to say the others do not give millions to missions and charities mind you.)Do I send them money? No.I buy a CD sometimes - and pick up a book by them at Goodwill.My money goes elsewhere. But, to similar charities that end human suffering, as I'm sure you all do.Before Jesus were to take out a whip, I do believe He would have a check list to see how many thousands have been brought directly to Him and closer to Him because of watching a teaching or Bible lesson from each and everyone of them. (Kenneth Copeland, Jessie Duplantis, Creflo, Fred Price, Bill Winston, Charles Stanley,Charles Capp, Andrew Wommack to name a few)I don't think there should be a "limit" to donations ---it would be "nice" to see exactly what their salaries are -which I believe all of their books are open to the IRS -they must be.I 100% do not believe I or any of you or TV Evangelists should follow the lifestyle that Jesus did.Those that are called into a monastic life - find avenues in which to fulfill that calling.Yes, it would be just wonderful - instead of using an expensive personal jet - if these TV Evangelists would fly coach and donate their waste to another well digging in an African village that drinks bacteria laden water 2 miles away from their hut. Oh yeah.But, it is not my place to judge them. In the after life it will nice if they can be shown what use their waste (on personal comfort) could have done to alleviate human suffering.They do do much good. Could they do even better? Oh yeah, they could.Example, they could maybe have more people listen to their message if they would not wear sequins on stage -but I don't know that for sure either.I don't like that Fred Price's son announced that his watch was a Rolex, but do I give them my money, No. Does that make me not listen to their Bible teaching, No. I learn alot.Should we all be shoeless and wander the country like Jesus and St. Francis, No.

 

[forgivenWretch]

I 100% do not believe I or any of you or TV Evangelists should follow the lifestyle that Jesus did.

Miss Hepburn, why would not follow in His steps?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah, valid question. Maybe I should have said, I don't believe we "have" to. The "should" is the main word in that sentence for me.For example, if we all did, if we were all meant to - the populaion would have stopped 2000 yrs ago, LOL! Miss Hepburn

 

[jerryjohnson]

[quote name='bigdummy;74849]I am curious as to how many on this forum believe that their should be a limit as to the percentage of the donations or offerings given to the leaders of the megachurches on T.V. such as Joice Meyers' date=' Ken Kopland, Jessy Duplantis,Creflo Dollar, and others who spend millions on their personal luxuries such as multimillion dollar homes, airplanes,and other personal properties when the average members of their congregations are giving the money to help those less well off then they are and not to have it spent lavishley by the one preaching the gospel to them. When I say this I hope I am not speaking out of jelously as that is not my intention, but I feel that ministers or evangelists should follow the life style of Jesus and although I feel it is Gods desire for them to prosper, I have a hard time comparing their life styles to that of Jesus who lived off of the love and kindness of those who followed Him and to my knowledge owned nothing in this world but the clothes He wore. I read nowhere that He spent any of the money given to him for personal idems other than food (Judas perhaps but not Jesus) I can't help but feel that if they want to be millionairs they should get in another line of work, As I recall Paul worked part time as a tent maker to supply his needs and sent all the moneys he collected to support the various churches. does any of this make any sense?....Ray[/QUOTE']I believe you should give where you are taught the Word of God chapter by chapter and line by line.

 

[forgivenWretch]

[quote name='Miss Hepburn;74864][B][COLOR=Purple]Ah' date=' valid question. Maybe I should have said, I don't believe we "have" to. The "should" is the main word in that sentence for me.For example, if we all did, if we were all meant to - the populaion would have stopped 2000 yrs ago, LOL! Miss Hepburn[/COLOR'][/B][/QUOTE]I think the main issue is that we "can't" (aren't able). We do not have the commitment it would take to follow in His steps, but that is OK, He knows, and as long as we strive, we are OK.I thought this interesting when I found it just after reading this OP...http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<[email protected]>&ps=1018&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCL1_UNEWS

 

[Martin W.]

As far as some televangelists .... I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when they give an accounting of their lives at the judgement.To me the bigger issue is the fools who send them the money in the first place.Some TV ministries accomplish honorable things , I just wish they all did.Next time you feel generous ..... try dispensing the money to someone needy who is close by.Some organizations are able to get 97% of their donations to where it is needed. 3% for administration costs. This is rare , but good. My opinion.Martin W

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, it would surprise most people with good hearts how little of their money ever reaches the needy.

 

[bigdummy]

[/B]

In reading another of your post you stated that Joyce Myers gives large amounts of the money she takes in to charities, In reading an account of her gifts to charity that I found on the internet it was stated that she gives 10% of the income to charity and that in 2008 her filed income was somewhere near 90,0000 dollars that still leaves more than enough to pay for upkeep on her two million dollar home in St Lewis, 500,000 homes apeace for her four kids on her staff 100,000 dollars for Daves Mercedes automoble,and a 40,0000 personal airplane. It is true that I am in no possition to judge, as what have I done for God lately, but at the same time I can't help but feel that God would be more pleased to see a larger percent of the moneys collected by the ministery spent on charities such as St. Judes Children Hospital, and Operation Smile, that pays for doctors and equipment used to repair facial deformities in children, and other such charities, What she does is commendable, but I can't help but feel the large sums of money spent for her personal pleasures is over kill, The same can be said for Fred Price, I have one of the bibles he sold through his ministery, (a NKJV) but I didn't buy it so he could wear a Rolex Watch and drive his Rolls Royce and brag about having money in three bank accounts. No I don't expect ministers to wear a white robe,sandels and beg for a living but don't you think God expects those preaching His word to be a better example for the flock? Jesus said he who is greatest among you should be your servant, and who ever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted, (Mat.23:11,12) I don't see much humility in her lifestyle, sorry....Ray P.S. Let us not forget what happened to Jim and Tammy Bakker

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Thanks, bigdummy.Miss Hepburn

 

[bigdummy]

[/B] Before Jesus were to take out a whip, I do believe He would have a check list to see how many thousands have been brought directly to Him and closer to Him because of watching a teaching or Bible lesson from each and everyone of them. (Kenneth Copeland, Jessie Duplantis, Creflo, Fred Price, Bill Winston, Charles Stanley,Charles Capp, Andrew Wommack to name a few) I don't think there should be a "limit" to donations ---it would be "nice" to see exactly what their salaries are -which I believe all of their books are open to the IRS -they must be. I 100% do not believe I or any of you or TV Evangelists should follow the lifestyle that Jesus did. Those that are called into a monastic life - find avenues in which to fulfill that calling. Yes, it would be just wonderful - instead of using an expensive personal jet - if these TV Evangelists would fly coach and donate their waste to another well digging in an African village that drinks bacteria laden water 2 miles away from their hut. Oh yeah. But, it is not my place to judge them. In the after life it will nice if they can be shown what use their waste (on personal comfort) could have done to alleviate human suffering. They do do much good. Could they do even better? Oh yeah, they could.Example, they could maybe have more people listen to their message if they would not wear sequins on stage -but I don't know that for sure either. I don't like that Fred Price's son announced that his watch was a Rolex, but do I give them my money, No. Does that make me not listen to their Bible teaching, No. I learn alot. Should we all be shoeless and wander the country like Jesus and St. Francis, No.

In reading your answer to my origional post I noticed you listed Andrew Wommach along with others that misuse some of the funds for church or Christian needs for there own personal pleasures, I don't feel I can accuse him of doing so for if he has I am unaware of it. However although I enjoy his program and agree with most of what he says due to the fact that he backs up what he says with bible chapter and verse, he has been known to make claimes that are not always valid. I refer to his being a member of the "Name it And Claim It Group" of Tele-evangelists. Allow me to give you an example of what I mean, something that happened to my wife and I three or four years back. My wife has been in a wheelchair for close to 11 years now, about three years ago she was listening to a televangelist on T.V. by the name of Andrew Womack (he has a dayly program) and my wife heard him say that when his son was in an automobile accident and was pronounced dead by paramedics and a doctor at an out of town hospital he drove to the hospital, rebuked Satan, and ordered his son back to life, he claims that the hospital records can varify his story, Anyway my wife bought into it and requested we drive to where he was having a healing meeting in Charlotte,N.C.Well I couldn't very well refuse to take her to the meeting even though it was a little over 400 miles from where we live, after all she believed God had given him a healing minestry and who was I to burst her bubble, so we went, she had to arrange to have her dialysis treatment in Charlotte as well.When we arrived I would guess there must have been about 300 or so people in attendence,when the time came for me to wheel her upon the stage he asked me if I believed God would heal her, I said "Well I believe He can, weather He will or not depends on Him" He suggested I leave the stage as he didn't want any doubters around her.He then rebuked satan, anointed her with oil, and told her to get up and give the wheelchair to some unbeliever who needed it as she wouldn't need it anymore, she attempted to get up and would have fallen had a couple of men on stage with him not caught her.He also said she wouldn't need dialysis for her kidneys anymore.Well needless to say she is still in that wheelchair and still on dialysis three times a week and has been for over 7 years. I still believe God does heal when He chooses to do so, but it is his decision not ours, and not based on your faith large or small....for as I recall (I can't find the passage right now) When a widow was taking her only son to be buried Jesus brought the son back to life and there is no mention of faith what so ever on the part of the widow, Jesus restored the son back to life not because of the faith the widow had but because He had compassion for her loss...I believe the same is true today, God is not a vending machine that you can insert a prayer into and recieve what you want be it His will or not...God Bless....Ray

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Very good story. Yes, I know his programs.In one of my posts I mentioned how some people get healed for 10 minutes - I mean that. Andrew speaks of so many healings that were humiliating for him -and basically he went back to the drawing board -searching for what went wrong ---because he sooo believes in the scripture - that we were healed and God is good and wants us healed ----sooo whassup?My belief and it HAS to be this for me - I can not waiver in the least ---is I and your wife and anyone CAN be healed ---something blocks it - now what the heck is it.I know it can be done ----battery low gotta post now or else!!

 

[gumby]

be it His will or not[/U]...God Bless....Ray

Im sorry, i had the exact same experience about two years ago when my dad died except i didnt see a T.V. pastor. On my dads deathbed the guy tried to inform me that it was satans hold that was causing the sickness and tryed to heal my father back to life. My dad was a cancer patient on hospice care and i can tell you he went peacefully not with some demon. It angers me when people dont know what there talking about and try to use god for a vending machine as you say. It has to be his will to heal someone not ours, we can pray but its what god decides not what we want. God bless

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I'll use what I've learned from Andrew and many others and it seems like a really valid question - very uncomplicated, without any trick answers ---a child could answer --Do you think it is God's will to heal ? (That you should be healed?) This is something in the whole healing process I must ask myself. It is pure logic ---it follows the type of logic I love so much when I found out about how Paul's mind worked...Rom 8:32I studied long and hard before I received or even asked for a healing ---it is a whole study really ---how to have it happen. You can think I'm full of it - it's alright -many think I'm extremely naive. But, things happen to me that don't happen to many ---I am like a child in my acceptance and expectation and gratitude.God is my Father -He would not give me a stone. He knows that I know that.And I know that He knows that I know.I don't mean to be insensitive to other's illnesses - that is the last thing I am ---but it is a study. It doesn't always "just happen". There are many factors involved. All revolve around simplicity.One example is - you absolutely must believe it is a done deal ----that it has happened the second you have asked. That is an absolute must.Thus, it fulfills the law of attraction ---once you believe you have been given it - you vibrate accordinlgy ---like attract like.Do you know how easy it is to doubt ---to look at your situatoin after 2 days of seeing no change ---and to keep knowing you are healed!!!!? Then try another few days ---do you know that you are healed? Do you know that God is working in the spiritual realms and it is a done deal? Can you keep you're rock hard firm knowing thru days of seeing NO CHANGE .... cause that's what it takes. No doubt. None, Nada, ever, never, ever. None.Can you do that? I can and did.We can talk again - there's more to understanding healing. And I want everyone to know about it!!

 

[Moses]

Do you think it is God's will to heal ? (That you should be healed?) [/I]This is something in the whole healing process I must ask myself. It is pure logic ---it follows the type of logic I love so much when I found out about how Paul's mind worked...Rom 8:32I studied long and hard before I received or even asked for a healing ---it is a whole study really ---how to have it happen. You can think I'm full of it - it's alright -many think I'm extremely naive. But, things happen to me that don't happen to many ---I am like a child in my acceptance and expectation and gratitude.God is my Father -He would not give me a stone. He knows that I know that.And I know that He knows that I know.I don't mean to be insensitive to other's illnesses - that is the last thing I am ---but it is a study. It doesn't always "just happen". There are many factors involved. All revolve around simplicity.One example is - you absolutely must believe it is a done deal ----that it has happened the second you have asked. That is an absolute must.Thus, it fulfills the law of attraction ---once you believe you have been given it - you vibrate accordinlgy ---like attract like.Do you know how easy it is to doubt ---to look at your situatoin after 2 days of seeing no change ---and to keep knowing you are healed!!!!? Then try another few days ---do you know that you are healed? Do you know that God is working in the spiritual realms and it is a done deal? Can you keep you're rock hard firm knowing thru days of seeing NO CHANGE .... cause that's what it takes. No doubt. None, Nada, ever, never, ever. None.Can you do that? I can and did.We can talk again - there's more to understanding healing. And I want everyone to know about it!![/COLOR]

Thank you Miss Hepburn! There is more involved to healing. Unfortunately, the body of Christ has not been taught properly about healing. Moses

 

[Miss Hepburn]

And, you know, that was just ONE of the fine points...May I say here that anyone that would ever impugn someone's faith in the matter of them maybe not being successful in their own healing is missing the point by a mile. It is too bad that some have felt that judgment from others. I feel I want to apologize for them.There are so many subtle reasons why a healing or a prayer is not being answered - when someone's faith is as big as the moon. Along with their hope, love and charity, devotion to the Lord.Anything asked of the Father in the name of Jesus -you can be assured it is already given. Period. It is written. It's all over -1 John5:14-15 is a good example...John 16:23-4 another. Mat7:7 ---It is all over.It is fact.The very thing that created the matter we see - is the power we each have.Jesus wanted us to know this."Say to the mountain..." Accept the inheritance of the Kingdom - that God intended for us.And yes, I had to look up how to spell impugn.