For a Christian nation, we sure have strayed far away. But I do understand your point, Lunar. And as far as the first 5 commandments, I wasn't really talking about extreme religious groups like Muslim, Atheists, or Buddhists. I was thinking of the average Joe or Jane in mainstream America. It's strange to me that if America has been "deemed" a Christian nation to the rest of the world, then why are we trying to deny it? If you go to China, they don't hide Buddah's statue. Go to the Arab world and you will quickly learn about their beliefs in Allah. But we are too busy being offended to be united. It's sad to me. I think the radicals speak up too much and the Christians sit silent in the churches too often. There are some out in the battle, but we all need to be in it.
The 10 Commandments on Public Display
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(His By Grace;48034)
For a Christian nation, we sure have strayed far away. But I do understand your point, Lunar. And as far as the first 5 commandments, I wasn't really talking about extreme religious groups like Muslim, Atheists, or Buddhists. I was thinking of the average Joe or Jane in mainstream America.
Yes, but America isn't about just catering to the majority and ignoring those who didn't have the good sense to not be a minority. It is about satisfying the needs of everyone as best it can.(His By Grace)
If you go to China, they don't hide Buddah's statue.
Um, are you kidding? Have you heard about China's relations with the Dalai Lama? They're not on good terms, to say the very least. China has taken an extremely active interest in limiting the influence of Buddhist monks.(His By Grace)
Go to the Arab world and you will quickly learn about their beliefs in Allah. But we are too busy being offended to be united. It's sad to me.
I think that the Arab world is one of the last places on earth I would want to use as the exemplar for how to run my society. Radical Islam is the source of so many problems in that region; if anything, it's a testament to why religion and politics should be kept separate.
For a Christian nation, we sure have strayed far away. But I do understand your point, Lunar. And as far as the first 5 commandments, I wasn't really talking about extreme religious groups like Muslim, Atheists, or Buddhists. I was thinking of the average Joe or Jane in mainstream America.
Yes, but America isn't about just catering to the majority and ignoring those who didn't have the good sense to not be a minority. It is about satisfying the needs of everyone as best it can.(His By Grace)
If you go to China, they don't hide Buddah's statue.
Um, are you kidding? Have you heard about China's relations with the Dalai Lama? They're not on good terms, to say the very least. China has taken an extremely active interest in limiting the influence of Buddhist monks.(His By Grace)
Go to the Arab world and you will quickly learn about their beliefs in Allah. But we are too busy being offended to be united. It's sad to me.
I think that the Arab world is one of the last places on earth I would want to use as the exemplar for how to run my society. Radical Islam is the source of so many problems in that region; if anything, it's a testament to why religion and politics should be kept separate.
(RaddSpencer;47998)
I don't know about that. The main reason that people don't want any religions "edicts" on public property is because of the 10 commandments. Jesus is very famous (or in some circles infamous). People could care less about Allah, or Buddha, or whatever. Its Jesus they either love or hate.
Islam and Mohhamed receive just as much attention. Both Muslims and Christians are pushy about their religions, and many are arrogant, so they become targets of critics. Peoples from other faiths/religions often keep to themselves, and hence are spared since they are not dogmatic.Thats about as complex as that gets. The point is that when you have two "one true faiths" (Christianity and Islam) masquerading around and making all kinds of fantastical claims, people will attack them.If Christians "kept to themselves", I can guarantee Christianity and Jesus would not be hot-topics.
I don't know about that. The main reason that people don't want any religions "edicts" on public property is because of the 10 commandments. Jesus is very famous (or in some circles infamous). People could care less about Allah, or Buddha, or whatever. Its Jesus they either love or hate.
Islam and Mohhamed receive just as much attention. Both Muslims and Christians are pushy about their religions, and many are arrogant, so they become targets of critics. Peoples from other faiths/religions often keep to themselves, and hence are spared since they are not dogmatic.Thats about as complex as that gets. The point is that when you have two "one true faiths" (Christianity and Islam) masquerading around and making all kinds of fantastical claims, people will attack them.If Christians "kept to themselves", I can guarantee Christianity and Jesus would not be hot-topics.
(His By Grace;47976)
The only reason that would happen is because the very name of JESUS carries so much power and conviction. Every beautiful name of God-Elohim, Adonai, Jehovah Jireh, Yaweh, all pack a "punch", but the Father gave Jesus the name above ALL names, and it is the dividing sword. It cuts to the right way or to the wrong way. The 10 commandments remind people of the Bible, hence they think of God; then Jesus. He cannot be ignored because we were made to praise Him. There is more controversy over Biblical material being in the public than any other subject we ever see/hear of. That's because Jesus forewarned us that the world hated Him, so they will hate those who stand with Him as well. I don't know about you, but it makes me feel joyous to think I could be counted on His side. I have the 10 commandments in my home. My girls have learned a way to remember each one by drawing symbols with each number. It's pretty cool. I have to remind them of these from time to time when controversy comes our way. But why wouldn't anyone want to follow them? Which one of them is harmful to anyone else? That's what I can't figure out. They are all meant for peoples' good!
There is no scientific, historical, or logical evidence to back-up the first 4 commandments as being beneficial to anyone above and beyond the ancient Jews who lived in the middle-east some 2000+ years ago.They are simply trivial and subjective, and hardly universal.
The only reason that would happen is because the very name of JESUS carries so much power and conviction. Every beautiful name of God-Elohim, Adonai, Jehovah Jireh, Yaweh, all pack a "punch", but the Father gave Jesus the name above ALL names, and it is the dividing sword. It cuts to the right way or to the wrong way. The 10 commandments remind people of the Bible, hence they think of God; then Jesus. He cannot be ignored because we were made to praise Him. There is more controversy over Biblical material being in the public than any other subject we ever see/hear of. That's because Jesus forewarned us that the world hated Him, so they will hate those who stand with Him as well. I don't know about you, but it makes me feel joyous to think I could be counted on His side. I have the 10 commandments in my home. My girls have learned a way to remember each one by drawing symbols with each number. It's pretty cool. I have to remind them of these from time to time when controversy comes our way. But why wouldn't anyone want to follow them? Which one of them is harmful to anyone else? That's what I can't figure out. They are all meant for peoples' good!
There is no scientific, historical, or logical evidence to back-up the first 4 commandments as being beneficial to anyone above and beyond the ancient Jews who lived in the middle-east some 2000+ years ago.They are simply trivial and subjective, and hardly universal.
tim_from_pa
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Then we would have to display every law and rule book from every religion, then before you know it everyone would be complianing about placement, size of the display, preference, and any one particular area would be littered with religious edicts.Its better to just leave it out completely.
Well, that's actually another issue involving practicality. Actually, if we are talking about just a space issue, then I'd have to agree, but the reasons in that case for not displaying something like the ten commandments is not because of a perception that its endorsing a certain religion. I will agree with you here that maybe there is more than one reason and they could get confused.Perhaps we could start a rent-a-space business, proceeds going toward the needy.
Well, that's actually another issue involving practicality. Actually, if we are talking about just a space issue, then I'd have to agree, but the reasons in that case for not displaying something like the ten commandments is not because of a perception that its endorsing a certain religion. I will agree with you here that maybe there is more than one reason and they could get confused.Perhaps we could start a rent-a-space business, proceeds going toward the needy.
I'm trying to understand where you guys are coming from, but I don't see Christianity at all in the same light as the Muslim world. It has remained in the forefront because Christ cannot and will not be ignored or brought down. Of His kindgom there shall be no end...( Isaiah 9:7). So, it matters not whether we display the 10 commandments publically, I suppose if we as believers have them written on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33,34). But the reminder to the world sure is needed in this troubled world we live in. Jesus is the only source of true peace- not as the world tries to give (John 14), but true peace.
I'm trying to understand where you guys are coming from, but I don't see Christianity at all in the same light as the Muslim world. It has remained in the forefront because Christ cannot and will not be ignored or brought down
This statement doesnt make any sense.By all factual accounts, Christ was a man who died nearly 2000 years ago, so he has already been "brought down".If you are referring to the teachings of Christ, then that could be said about most surviving religions and their founders (Buddha/Mohhamed/Krishna/etc).
But the reminder to the world sure is needed in this troubled world we live in.
Again, the first 4 commandments are either irrelevant, violate freedoms, or are insulting. The rest of the world does not need to be reminded of these laws. The last 6 six commandments are generic and have been present in most societies since man-kind has existed.In-fact, if we look at history, Christians have been the worst at violating these commandments than any other religious group, from the crusades to the inquisition (and the history of dark-ages Europe in general) to the slave trade to the massacre of the native Americans to the modern-day crusades in Iraq and Afghanistan in which thousands of people have perished.
Jesus is the only source of true peace- not as the world tries to give (John 14), but true peace
Muslims say the same thing about Islam , ie Islam is the only way to "true peace". To an outside observer, you sound and appear no different, ie making ultimatums about the 'only' way to true peace and the 'only" way to do this or the 'only' way to do that. Are these your own independent conclusions as based on your tireless years of research and study or are you simply regurgitating something someone else told you?Last time I checked, Christianity was spread through war and violence by invading and conquering Europeans. Either that, or the Europeans subjugated the indigenous populations and pushed them to the edges of poverty, thus setting up a nice situation for the missionaries to come in and give these people food and hence convert them.
This statement doesnt make any sense.By all factual accounts, Christ was a man who died nearly 2000 years ago, so he has already been "brought down".If you are referring to the teachings of Christ, then that could be said about most surviving religions and their founders (Buddha/Mohhamed/Krishna/etc).
But the reminder to the world sure is needed in this troubled world we live in.
Again, the first 4 commandments are either irrelevant, violate freedoms, or are insulting. The rest of the world does not need to be reminded of these laws. The last 6 six commandments are generic and have been present in most societies since man-kind has existed.In-fact, if we look at history, Christians have been the worst at violating these commandments than any other religious group, from the crusades to the inquisition (and the history of dark-ages Europe in general) to the slave trade to the massacre of the native Americans to the modern-day crusades in Iraq and Afghanistan in which thousands of people have perished.
Jesus is the only source of true peace- not as the world tries to give (John 14), but true peace
Muslims say the same thing about Islam , ie Islam is the only way to "true peace". To an outside observer, you sound and appear no different, ie making ultimatums about the 'only' way to true peace and the 'only" way to do this or the 'only' way to do that. Are these your own independent conclusions as based on your tireless years of research and study or are you simply regurgitating something someone else told you?Last time I checked, Christianity was spread through war and violence by invading and conquering Europeans. Either that, or the Europeans subjugated the indigenous populations and pushed them to the edges of poverty, thus setting up a nice situation for the missionaries to come in and give these people food and hence convert them.
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