The 12 tribes of Israel: They be us.

[Ronald Nolette]

So James did not know what He was writing about

The prophets did not know all they were writing about, as Peter says: Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. (1 Peter 1)

The prophets searched their own writing from God to know what they had written about, even as do we.

Did John know everything he was writing in Revelation? Did Paul know what he was talking about, when he first told the Corinthians not to keep company with any fornicator, until God corrected him to include only those known as a brother?

The infallibility of Scripture is true, but that does not include infallible minds of them that wrote it. They were as the pen of the ready Writer of God: does the pen have to know all about what it is writing? No. Does the clay need to know what God has shaped it thus? No.

No doubt, many of the prophets and apostles themselves, after accurately recording what God told them, would go back and read it for themselves, for full understanding. Wouldn't you? Have you ever written something by 'stream of consciousness', that you knew was true in your heart, and then go back to actually read it for yourself, to see exactly what you were saying?

Well the prophets and JOhn writing as a prophet did not what their prophecies meant. But James was writing a pastoral epistle and not a prophecy! Equating instructional letters with prophecy is wrong.

Maybe Paul wasn't writing to the people he addressed his letters to as well? How can we know????? Gentiles are not spiritual Jews nor spiritual members of 12 spiritual tribes. We are saved gentiles who are one with Jews in the body of Christ. That is all. No allegorical reinterpretation needed.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It never was designed to be that one lost their ethnic heritage.

The lost heritage was that of birth of Abraham by promise. That seed of the flesh has been all cast away.

The only seed of promise of Abraham is now that of faith, and are all Israel together, whether grafted in from among the Gentiles that know not God, or grafted in again from among them called the Jews, and are not by flesh anymore.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3)

The old seed of promise by birth of flesh in natural bodies no longer is alive on earth in sight of God. They are not children of bondage by Hagar, both in unbelief and flesh.

The seed of promise by birth of Spirit in natural bodies alive on earth in sight of God, are the children of Abraham and of God by faith, born after the Spirit, even as Isaac was:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (Gal 4:28-29)

Even so it is now: they who are born after the Spirit as Isaac ar the children of promise of Abraham as Isaac in the flesh. Not a spiritual body, children, and seed only, even as Isaac was not a spiritual child and seed of promise only, but in the flesh as Abraham was.

No the seed of the flesh has not all been cast away!

Romans 11
King James Version

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


And you must remember that in order to be called a Jew , one had to be a child of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Just being a child of Abraham never made on Jewish, physically or spiritually.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What they have now is an historical culture kept in a false religion, called the Jews' religion, and they are welcome to it. I have no personal axe to grind with them or anyone else, so long as they don't use their false religion to steal, kill, and destroy others.

Some person suggested these 'Jews' were persecuted even more for refusing to identify them as special people to God. It is a ridiculous statement. The devil doesn't persecute his own. If they have suffered at the hands of men, it is according to their own prophecy that they would be miserably destroyed for killing the Son of the vineyard's Lord.

In the Old Covenant God would allow a temporary persecution at the hands of the uncircumcised, but now He simply leaves them to themselves as any other people, so that they now defend themselves on their own, and more power to them in their own nation they call 'Israel'.

They wanted to be an independent nation unto themselves with their own religion and 'God', and they have had it since the cross, and they always will have it like every other nation on the earth ruled by man, until the return.

I fully agree Bob. Soon Jehovah is going to put it into the hearts of the Kings of the earth to destroy all of false religion, an unfulfilled prophecy in which we should see the fulfillment of Rev 17:15-17. You may not understand that, but like you I am sure that they will not fare well.

 

[Davy]

Commentators have gotten perplexed about James 1:1, where he writes to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad...

Most conclude that James, being with Peter an apostle of the circumcision (Gal 2:8), was therefore specifically writing to the converted Jews. Those of Jewish descent, children of Abraham as pertains to the flesh. (Romans 4:1)

But in the midst of their deliberation, they ask this one question, "what exactly did James mean..." And this is a great error in reading and interpreting Scripture.

It does not matter what James, or any other apostle or prophet, meant by what they were saying and writing. The only 2 things that really matter is that they accurately said and wrote what God said, what thus saith the Lord, and then what God meant by it.

Nothing in Scripture tells us that the prophetic or apostolic writer must understand what they are talking about, when giving us Scripture inspired of the Holy Spirit. The only mandate is that they give us Scripture from God, not ideas, rules, commandments, ideology, theology from themselves. Or as Moses put it, from his own mind. (Number 16: 28)

In fact, we are told by Scripture that many prophets did not know what they were talking about, when they told us what God said. Daniel is plainly such a case. As well as Scripture telling us that ALL the prophets were searching and wondering about the grace the spoke of, that would be offered to us in Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1)

And so, the real question is what did God mean by it. James may indeed have even thought he was specifically speaking to his kinsmen according to the flesh (Rom 9:3), that believe, but that doesnt matter to God, nor to us.

And so far as God is concerned, there is no difference between Greek nor Jew, nor any other person in the faith of Jesus. We are ALL believers of one body, neither Jew nor Greek nor male nor female. While there are places in Scripture where God says he is talking specifically to a woman or a man, or a wife, or a husband, nowhere in Scripture does God make it known in the New Covenant and body of Christ, that He is speaking exclusively to certain carnal bloodline or culture. He may be speaking about them, but not exclusively TO them.

And so, a simple conclusion is that God is now calling His churches the 12 tribes, His 12 tribes. We are the New Covenant tribes of Israel. We are the new church and body, the new peculiar people, the new holy nation and priesthood of God (1 Peter 2:9). We are the new creatures and citizens of the commonwealth of Israel (Eph 2:12). The Jews after the flesh who abide in unbelief continue as the new aliens, alienated from god without hope in the world. If they believe, then they are grafted back in with us. Equally. Completely. In unity with distinction nor respect of heritage of flesh.

Even as the everlasting covenant and priesthood of the Old Covenant with the children of Israel has been done away (Heb 8:13, 7:11) and replaced with the New, so have the children of Israel been replaced with the new men (Eph 2:15) (and women) in Christ Jesus.

What was intended to be everlasting ceased to be so, when the Son of God died on the cross, and so likewise did the body of Israel in the flesh die to the covenants and promises and family...and tribes of God, which is now new-born, or born again, with us in Christ Jesus. We are the new Israel of God, and so are we His tribes.

God is the One calling us the 12 tribes in James 1:1, even if James didnt understand it as such. We have Scriptures to prove this, that James was not privy to when he wrote the epistle...of God.

And so, the 12 tribes of Israel of God in Rev 7 are Christians of the New Covenant, whether Jewish or Greekish...

Sorry, but not all that will work, because a portion of it is against God's Word.

When Apostle Paul taught there is no difference between Israelite and Gentile in Christ Jesus, that didn't change what God promised to bloodline Israel for this present world. What The LORD did with The New Covenant is made all believers belong to one Body in Christ, and brought the believing Gentile into the promises and covenants God gave to Israel.

This is why we read in Ezekiel 37 and Ezekiel 47 & 48 about the future gathering and literal re-establishing of the (believing) children of Israel back to the holy lands God promised their fathers. That will be per The New Covenant, the believing Gentile with them.

Jer 31:35-37
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
KJV

Isa 49:20-22
20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, 'The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.'
21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, 'Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?'
22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, 'Behold, I will lift up Mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up My standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.'
KJV

To say that the chosen seed of Israel and God's promises to them is over and done with by The New Covenant is major Biblical ignorance. The majority of the promises and covenants to the seed of Israel went with the 'believing seed' of Israel into The New Covenant, is why.

So if there ever was such a thing as Replacement Theology (which really there isn't), yet your theory well defined it.

In Romans 9 Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea to Gentile Romans in the Church. Thing is though, the Book of Hosea was God speaking to the ten northern tribe kingdom of Israel that He gave to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim. Because they rebelled, He scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel as a people, and to this day they have never returned to the holy lands as a people (no, the ten tribes were not known as Jews).

Hosea speaks of how God would scatter them among the Gentiles for their false Baal worship, and they would lose heritage as being part of Israel. They would forget the sabbath days, new moons, and feasts. He said He would hedge up their paths so they couldn't find their way back. They would become 'lo ami', meaning 'not My people'. But in new lands, in the wilderness, He would speak softly to them, and take the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and He would make a covenant with them, and make them to lie down safely, and betroth them to Him.

And in final, where it was said about them, 'lo ami' (not My people), there it would be said to them, "Ye are the sons of the living God" (Hosea 1:10).

Apostle Paul said that to believing Roman Gentiles! But Hosea was originally written about the ten tribes of Israel. So what did Paul mean?

It's simple. It's about the Old Testament prophets concerning the joining of the believing Gentiles into God's promises and covenants given to the seed of Israel. So if that seed of Israel no longer exists, then those promises and covenants would no longer exist, which would include The New Covenant, because it is written about in the Old Testament Books also! Much of the New Testament quoted from the prophets about that Salvation too!

Thus it is Biblical ignorance to try and say the seed of Israel is done away with in Christ, for that is not at all Paul's meaning!

 

[Davy]

What happened to the ten tribes of Israel? It has been a matter of deep research for centuries. You can imagine that modern Jews have a vested interest in this.

Around 722 B.C., the Assyrians invaded and destroyed the northern kingdom of Israel. In 568 B.C., the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem and destroyed the first temple.

The custom of these people was to kill the male captives or enslave them. The male captives were not allowed to breed. It was a matter of procedure not to allow their enemies to breed. Then they took their women and effectively breed them out of existence. The research shows even at the DNA level, this is exactly what happened.

So depending how you look at it, the descendance of the ten tribes were carried forward through the women, but their children were fathered by Pagans and raised Pagan.

And this was actually God's policy too...Mosaic rules of war...kill all that breaths accept the virgins and breed your enemy out of existence. No males alive to pick up a sword and avenge their people.

That certainly is a 'false Jew' type of propaganda against God's prophecy about the promises to the scattered ten northern tribes of Israel.

The REAL research about the ten lost tribes has them showing up in the West, as the Cimmerian and Scythian Caucasian peoples that migrated from the east into Asia Minor and Europe.


"Most Holy Father, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find
that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread
renown. It journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the
Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage
peoples, but nowhere could it be subdued by any people, however barbarous. Thence
it came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to its
home in the west where it still lives today. ..." (from https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files...of-arbroath-transcription-and-translation.pdf)

 

[Davy]

When Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, many think that He meant just the Jews in the holy land at that time. That thinking is false and actually conceited, because after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms in 1 Kings 11, and gave ten tribes to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim as king of Israel, the name "house of Israel" applied only to the ten northern tribes of Israel after that. The southern kingdom of 3 tribes (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) became known as Jews of the "house of Judah", the tile of Jew derived from the tribe of Judah.

The ten tribes God caused to be scattered first by the kings of Assyria because they fell away into false worship. They wound up in the lands of Assyria, north of Babylon, and in the lands of the Medes (2 Kings 17). God gave prophesy of what would happen to them through His prophet Hosea. In Assyria, their names would change, they would lose their heritage as Israel, and would take on pagan customs, yet THEIR SEED WOULD REMAIN!

In the 1930's, professor of linguistics Leroy Waterman at the University of Michigan translated portions of the ancient Assyrian tablets in Royal Correspondence of the Assyrian Empire for what the Assyrians called the ten tribes of Israel and some of their kings, like Omri. The name he translated wound up linked to the Cimri which is about the Cimmerian tribes that anthropology well knows about. The Cimmerian tribes (pronounced with a 'K') migrated west into Asia Minor and Europe. Those with the Scythian peoples that following them later, would become the founders of the western nations. These point to the Caucasian peoples that migrated westward through the Caucasus Mountains above the Black Sea.

2 Esdras 13
40 Those are the ten tribes, which were carried away prisoners out of their own land in the time of Osea the king, whom Salmanasar the king of Assyria led away captive, and he carried them over the waters, and so came they into another land.
41 But they took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt.
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land,
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passover over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come.


JewishEncyclopedia.com: Azareth:
"The name of the land beyond the great river, far away from the habitation of man, in which the Ten Tribes of Israel will dwell, observing the laws of Moses, until the time of the restoration, according to IV Esd. xiii. 45. Columbus identified America with this land. (See Kayserling's "Christopher Columbus," translated by Dr. C. Gross, p. 15.)

This is why Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea to Roman Gentile believers on Christ in Romans 9. The Book of Hosea was written about the ten lost tribes, how God would end their kingdom and scatter them because of their worship of Baal. But then in final He would make them to lie down safely, and make a covenant with them, and they would be known as the sons of the living God. By this Paul showed that the ten lost tribes were scattered to Europe among the Gentiles, and that they and believing Gentiles would become the western Christian nations from the prophecy to Ephraim becoming "a multitude of nations" (Genesis 48).

So who would be against this? The false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan", that's who. They think they have won in this present world, but they don't realize how they have already lost, because now the time is even shorter when Lord Jesus Christ will return to destroy those against Him and His elect.

 

[robert derrick]

Had to look that one up as well

What is Kundalini? — The Kundalini Guide
www.kundaliniguide.com/what-is-kundalini
Kundalini is a Sanscrit term from ancient India that identifies the arising of an energy and consciousness which has been coiled at the base of the spine since birth, and is the source of the life force (pranic energy, chi, bio-energy) that everybody knows.

Sounds like a snake waiting to bite with magic of nirvana.

 

[robert derrick]

Well the prophets and JOhn writing as a prophet did not what their prophecies meant. But James was writing a pastoral epistle and not a prophecy! Equating instructional letters with prophecy is wrong.

Maybe Paul wasn't writing to the people he addressed his letters to as well? How can we know????? Gentiles are not spiritual Jews nor spiritual members of 12 spiritual tribes. We are saved gentiles who are one with Jews in the body of Christ. That is all. No allegorical reinterpretation needed.

Gentiles are not spiritual Jews nor spiritual members of 12 spiritual tribes. We are saved gentiles who are one with Jews in the body of Christ.

That is because there is no such thing as spiritual Israel, nor has Israel been replaced.

Calling something spiritual as distinct from physical bodies is that of claiming Jesus was spirit but not come in the flesh.

Israel is not replaced: the name still means to be a Prince having power with God. The change is they who God calls Israel. His name, His call.

Replacement theology is either false, or the name is incorrect. Nothing has been replaced in God, but rather the old covenant and [people have been changed to the new covenant and people: from seed of promise by flesh in physical bodies, to seed of promise by faith in physical bodies.

There is no such thing as a saved' Gentile. Gentile by definition is uncircumcised in sight of God. When a gentile, who is uncircumcision by nature believes Jesus, he is circumcised inwardly in sight of God, and is become a Jew born into the Israel of God.

The only way this is not possible is to say the olive tree the natural branches were broken off of, and can be grafted into again is not Israel. And if not, what is it?

But if that olive tree is Israel, then what are the Gentiles come in to, when believe and are saved?

No allegorical reinterpretation needed.

Tell that to Paul in Galatians 4. The children of Abraham and of God by faith in Jesus are counted for the seed of promise, as was Isaac, not the children born after the flesh, which are in bondage as was Ishmael.

 

[n2thelight]

Gentiles are not spiritual Jews nor spiritual members of 12 spiritual tribes. We are saved gentiles who are one with Jews in the body of Christ.

Thank you ,and just like we are grafted in , you can be grafted out . It's two choices , Tree of Life or the tree of evil, PERIOD!!!

 

[robert derrick]

And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.

Who's names are these? Are they the names written on stones of Aaron's breastplate, or are they the names written in Rev 7?

They can't be both, because the names on stones differ from that of Rev 7 by one: Dan vs Manasseh

And since the names written on stones of old cannot be changed, then the names in Rev 7 cannot be that of the natural seed of old written on unchanged stones.

And since the apostles are the foundation stones of the City, upon which are the stones built up for a wall, then the stones of the wall of the Heavenly Jerusalem above, who is the free mother of us all (Gal 4), must be the children of Abraham and of God by faith of Jesus.

Therefore, the names of the 12 tribes of Israel on the gates of the our City and Mother, are the names for all Israel to be saved: all they grafted in to the holy olive tree of God.

Is the holy olive tree the Israel of God? What is it that the uncircumcision by nature, Gentiles, are grafted in to?

All believers of Christ are grafted into the Israel of God, and none by flesh alone shall be grafted in, nor ever be justified in the sight of God as His people of Israel.

All resurrected saints in Christ Jesus are children of Israel, and the names are not they written on corruptible stones for seed of flesh in the old, but on incorruptible in the New Jerusalem, and on hearts of flesh with seed of God therein.

Unless of course, God's olive tree is not Israel of God, and the names on the gates of the holy city are not those of Rev 7, but are those born of flesh on corruptible stones, which stones have been done away with the covenant and the priesthood thereof.