The 12 tribes of Israel: They be us.

[Curtis]

It's kind of cool.
I traced my heritage back to northern Europe. English/Irish..
And if you trace those people back you come all the way to Japheth, who was the first son of Noah.
The Bible says that by these 3 sons came all the Gentile nations.
Abraham was a Gentile.
It wasn't until Isaac that the Lord called out a peculiar people.
They carried the weight of the world on their shoulders.
They were the Banner of the Lord, his army, to bring truth to the world, and God's law.
I wonder which son of Noah was included in Abrahams lineage.
Was he from Japheth or Ham or Shem.
Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord.
We are the offspring and inheritors of that Grace.
We are in the Age of Grace.
Jacob came from Gentiles.
God chose Jacob.
Gentiles and Jews
Their is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus.
We are the children of Abraham.

Jews (Judah) was one of twelve.
The son of perdition, the lost sheep. Judas.
Other sheep have I that are not of this fold.
We are all under Grace.
And Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Just thinking
Hugs

Abraham was a Hebrew, which as far as I know, isn’t a gentile ethnic group.

 

[Curtis]

Wycliff refused to translate EKKLESIA as CHURCH because under Roman Catholicism it implied CLERGY instead of CONGREGATION.

Especially since ekklesia just means any group of people invited to an assembly, secular or religious.
A PTA meeting is an ekklesia.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Commentators have gotten perplexed about James 1:1, where he writes to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad...

Most conclude that James, being with Peter an apostle of the circumcision (Gal 2:8), was therefore specifically writing to the converted Jews. Those of Jewish descent, children of Abraham as pertains to the flesh. (Romans 4:1)

But in the midst of their deliberation, they ask this one question, "what exactly did James mean..." And this is a great error in reading and interpreting Scripture.

It does not matter what James, or any other apostle or prophet, meant by what they were saying and writing. The only 2 things that really matter is that they accurately said and wrote what God said, what thus saith the Lord, and then what God meant by it.

Nothing in Scripture tells us that the prophetic or apostolic writer must understand what they are talking about, when giving us Scripture inspired of the Holy Spirit. The only mandate is that they give us Scripture from God, not ideas, rules, commandments, ideology, theology from themselves. Or as Moses put it, from his own mind. (Number 16: 28)

In fact, we are told by Scripture that many prophets did not know what they were talking about, when they told us what God said. Daniel is plainly such a case. As well as Scripture telling us that ALL the prophets were searching and wondering about the grace the spoke of, that would be offered to us in Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1)

And so, the real question is what did God mean by it. James may indeed have even thought he was specifically speaking to his kinsmen according to the flesh (Rom 9:3), that believe, but that doesnt matter to God, nor to us.

And so far as God is concerned, there is no difference between Greek nor Jew, nor any other person in the faith of Jesus. We are ALL believers of one body, neither Jew nor Greek nor male nor female. While there are places in Scripture where God says he is talking specifically to a woman or a man, or a wife, or a husband, nowhere in Scripture does God make it known in the New Covenant and body of Christ, that He is speaking exclusively to certain carnal bloodline or culture. He may be speaking about them, but not exclusively TO them.

And so, a simple conclusion is that God is now calling His churches the 12 tribes, His 12 tribes. We are the New Covenant tribes of Israel. We are the new church and body, the new peculiar people, the new holy nation and priesthood of God (1 Peter 2:9). We are the new creatures and citizens of the commonwealth of Israel (Eph 2:12). The Jews after the flesh who abide in unbelief continue as the new aliens, alienated from god without hope in the world. If they believe, then they are grafted back in with us. Equally. Completely. In unity with distinction nor respect of heritage of flesh.

Even as the everlasting covenant and priesthood of the Old Covenant with the children of Israel has been done away (Heb 8:13, 7:11) and replaced with the New, so have the children of Israel been replaced with the new men (Eph 2:15) (and women) in Christ Jesus.

What was intended to be everlasting ceased to be so, when the Son of God died on the cross, and so likewise did the body of Israel in the flesh die to the covenants and promises and family...and tribes of God, which is now new-born, or born again, with us in Christ Jesus. We are the new Israel of God, and so are we His tribes.

God is the One calling us the 12 tribes in James 1:1, even if James didnt understand it as such. We have Scriptures to prove this, that James was not privy to when he wrote the epistle...of God.

And so, the 12 tribes of Israel of God in Rev 7 are Christians of the New Covenant, whether Jewish or Greekish...

You are correct Bob, the 12 tribes listed in Rev are Christians of the new covenant. They have been bought out by the blood of the lamb from all nations Rev 5:9,10

 

[Enoch111]

Where did Abraham come from?

Hugs

Please see Genesis 11.

 

[robert derrick]

You are correct Bob, the 12 tribes listed in Rev are Christians of the new covenant. They have been bought out by the blood of the lamb from all nations Rev 5:9,10

You seem to be a rare bird in this. I usually get lots of flack for it. Sort of like, how dare I.

What do you think of there no more being a physical seed of promise by Abraham and Sarah, as Isaac? They have been concluded in unblief and so are not the children of Abraham and Hagar as Ishmael. (Gal 4)

 

[robert derrick]

Absolutely wrong.

The church is grafted onto the new covenant that is with the house of Israel.

That’s clear in Romans ch 11.

The church is the church, Israel is Israel, and scripture is crystal clear that the new covenant is with the HOUSE of Israel, which means national Israel, as proven by Jesus’ own words, that He first came ONLY for the HOUSE of Israel, and ordered His apostles to avoid going to the gentiles.

He first came ONLY for the HOUSE of Israel, and ordered His apostles to avoid going to the gentiles

Which command He began to annul so soon as the physical seed of promise began to reject Him, and with their final rejection and crucifixion of God's Son, they are no longer Israel of God after the flesh, even as they are no longer called Jews God with outward circumcision:

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (Rom 9)

Israel of the flesh are no longer Israel of God: the children of Abraham as Isaac by Sarah, but they are now all concluded in unbelief and are children of Abraham as Ishmael by Hagar. (Gal 4:22-31)

By Isaac came Jacob and Israel, and they that are children as Isaac are children of Israel by promise, even as Isaac.

And so, all Israel is now saved by the Deliverer Jesus, for they are now all Israel that are of Israel of God, and they are all saved, because they are all children of faith and of promise and of Abraham and of God: the children of Israel.

All Israel cannot pertain to the natural seed, because not all that physical seed have believed, nor repented, and shall not be in the resurrection of the Just, but rather the prophesy is of that day when all that are of Israel are all indeed Israel by faith, and they which are called Jews are indeed Jews inwardly.

The church is the church, Israel is Israel, and scripture is crystal clear that the new covenant is with the HOUSE of Israel, which means national Israel

The nation of Israel is the holy nation of priests that God made covenant with the physical seed to be from mount Sinai and above all people on the earth (Ex 19:5-6). They drew back for the Lord Himself at that time, and they crucified Him in the last time (1 John 2:18): now they are no more seed and children of promise by flesh, as they are no more Israel by natural birth and Jews outwardly.

The church and Israel and covenant with house of Israel and nation of Israel is what God says it is in Scripture of His covenant, not what men say they are by continuing to read old prophesies of Scripture through the dark lens of a physical seed born of flesh, in bondage under Hagar, and in rebellion of God to this day.

So long as that physical seed reads Scripture with the vail of Moses over their hearts, as though Messiah of prophesy has not yet come, they will forever err from the truth of deliverance by God, and so long as old prophesy of Scripture is read with the mind of the physical seed, as though Christ has not come and died on the cross, they will forever err from the truth of fulfillment by Jesus Christ.

They that are born of the seed of God (1 Peter 1:23) are the seed of promise as Isaac, not them born of seed and will of man, especially not the seed of Abraham by Hagar.

Jesus came to the physical seed first for Abraham's sake, and He will graft them in again for the fathers' sake (Rom 11:28), but none shall ever again by flesh and blood be in the covenant of God with the children of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob.

 

[robert derrick]

Please see Genesis 11.

Ur of the Chaldees.

And his faith came from the Lord God.

And his seed by Sarah came from believing the promise of God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God, when he laid with her past age.

 

[robert derrick]

Hebrew = "one from beyond"

Hebrew is a Northwest Semitic language of the Afroasiatic language family. Historically, it is regarded as the language of the Israelites, Judeans and their ancestors. It is the only Canaanite language still spoken and the only truly successful example of a revived dead language, and one of only two Northwest Semitic languages still spoken, the other being Aramaic

I find the geneologies both fascinating and tiring.
Took me the longest time to get through all the begats.
Nut then I started checking out the meanings of the names.
Like from Adam to Noah.
so cool.
I did from Noah to Abraham but I don't remember now.

The twelve tribes, Judah is 1 of the 12..
there are ten (lost)

And yet we all came from Adam.
What was Adam a Jew or a Gentile?
Seeing every person came from him, then that is all of our lineage,
same as Eve is the mother of all living.

We are all God's children.

I guess that's the point I'm trying to make

Hugs

We now are all of one seed and one blood (Acts 17): corrupted from Adam.

We are all God's children.

They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9)

They which are of Adam without faith continue as the children of the flesh. They which have the faith of Jesus are the children of God and of promise, counted as born of the incorruptible seed of God and blood of the Lamb. (1 Peter 1:18-19, 2:23)

 

[Curtis]

Which command He began to annul so soon as the physical seed of promise began to reject Him, and with their final rejection and crucifixion of God's Son, they are no longer Israel of God after the flesh, even as they are no longer called Jews God with outward circumcision:

Except for the fact that Romans 11 is clear that salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous - which establishes that Israel is still His people, as Paul clearly iterates in Roma’s 11:1-2.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and they see the deliverer, Jesus, come out of Zion (Jerusalem) and all those Israelites alive at that time to see Jesus come out of Jerusalem after He has returned to mount Olive, and saved Jerusalem from destruction by wiping out the coalition of Muslim nations that in the process of destroying it, per Zechariah 14:1-5, will then realize He is their Messiah, and believe, AND BE SAVED.

All that is also in Romans 11.

Yes, God is so totally done and finished with Israel, that Jesus saves their beloved city (beloved by God, too) from destruction, then per Zechariah 14:16 through the end of that chapter, stays in that city from then on, and the nations left alive come into the gates to worship The Father and Himself.

 

[Curtis]

Which command He began to annul so soon as the physical seed of promise began to reject Him, and with their final rejection and crucifixion of God's Son, they are no longer Israel of God after the flesh, even as they are no longer called Jews God with outward circumcision:

Except for the fact that Romans 11 is clear that salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous - which establishes that Israel is still His people, as Paul clearly iterates in Roma’s 11:1-2.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and they see the deliverer, Jesus, come out of Zion (Jerusalem) and all those Israelites alive at that time to see Jesus come out of Jerusalem (after He has returned to mount Olive, and saved Jerusalem from destruction by wiping out the coalition of Muslim nations that in the process of destroying it, per Zechariah 14:1) will be saved by faith in Him as messiah.

Yes, God is so totally done and finished with Israel, that Jesus saves their beloved city (beloved by God, too) from destruction, then per Zechariah 14:16 through the end of that chapter, stays in that city from then on, and the nations left alive come into the gates to worship The Father and Himself.

The church and Israel and covenant with house of Israel and nation of Israel is what God says it is in Scripture of His covenant, not what men say they are by continuing to read old prophesies of Scripture through the dark lens of a physical seed born of flesh, in bondage under Hagar, and in rebellion of God to this day.

Except for the prophecy of Jeremiah 31 is confirmed and explained by Hebrews 8, and 9, that Jesus is the mediator of that new covenant between God and the houses of Israel, and that the new covenant took effect at His death.

That’s why you, the wild olive branch, have to be grafted onto the house of Israel’s olive tree (covenant) by faith - and salvation only came to you to make His nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, jealous - all from Romans 11.

 

[Stumpmaster]

That’s why you, the wild olive branch, have to be grafted onto the house of Israel’s olive tree (covenant) by faith - and salvation only came to you to make His nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, jealous - all from Romans 11.

Yes. From the call of Abraham (c.1921BC Genesis12:1) to the fall of Jerusalem 70AD, Israel has had both good and bad branches. The main thought in the metaphor of the olive trees is because the root is eternally good and holy so the remaining branches of Israel and the grafted-in branches of non-Israel are also eternally good and holy.

Rom 11:16-18 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. (17) And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, (18) do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Reading OT history and its lessons regarding Israel's idolatry and backsliding does give cause to question how if the root is good and holy can any of the branches be so rotten?

Lay it on me, brothers and sisters in Christ.

The parallel with the rotteness of paganised Christianity today is not hard to discern, with kundalini and other abominations present with the full approval of deceived assembly leaders and misguided congregation members.

 

[Curtis]

Yes. From the call of Abraham (c.1921BC Genesis12:1) to the fall of Jerusalem 70AD, Israel has had both good and bad branches. The main thought in the metaphor of the olive trees is because the root is eternally good and holy so the remaining branches of Israel and the grafted-in branches of non-Israel are also eternally good and holy.

Rom 11:16-18 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. (17) And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, (18) do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Reading OT history and its lessons regarding Israel's idolatry and backsliding does give cause to question how if the root is good and holy can any of the branches be so rotten?

Lay it on me, brothers and sisters in Christ.

The parallel with the rotteness of paganised Christianity today is not hard to discern, with kundalini and other abominations present with the full approval of deceived assembly leaders and misguided congregation members.

Replacement theology clams the root is no longer there - they have it backwards, just as Paul says in your quote.

 

[robert derrick]

Except for the fact that Romans 11 is clear that salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous - which establishes that Israel is still His people, as Paul clearly iterates in Roma’s 11:1-2.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and they see the deliverer, Jesus, come out of Zion (Jerusalem) and all those Israelites alive at that time to see Jesus come out of Jerusalem after He has returned to mount Olive, and saved Jerusalem from destruction by wiping out the coalition of Muslim nations that in the process of destroying it, per Zechariah 14:1-5, will then realize He is their Messiah, and believe, AND BE SAVED.

All that is also in Romans 11.

Yes, God is so totally done and finished with Israel, that Jesus saves their beloved city (beloved by God, too) from destruction, then per Zechariah 14:16 through the end of that chapter, stays in that city from then on, and the nations left alive come into the gates to worship The Father and Himself.

will then realize He is their Messiah, and believe, AND BE SAVED.

So they will be saved by sight? For we walk by faith, not by sight...

The only sight that the corrupted physical seed of Abraham and Hagar will believe, is that of the beast that comes in his own name (Rev 13:13) (John 5:43). Them they will believe and receive as their own messiah and false christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Except for the fact that Romans 11 is clear that salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous - which establishes that Israel is still His people, as Paul clearly iterates in Roma’s 11:1-2.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and they see the deliverer, Jesus, come out of Zion (Jerusalem) and all those Israelites alive at that time to see Jesus come out of Jerusalem (after He has returned to mount Olive, and saved Jerusalem from destruction by wiping out the coalition of Muslim nations that in the process of destroying it, per Zechariah 14:1) will be saved by faith in Him as messiah.

Yes, God is so totally done and finished with Israel, that Jesus saves their beloved city (beloved by God, too) from destruction, then per Zechariah 14:16 through the end of that chapter, stays in that city from then on, and the nations left alive come into the gates to worship The Father and Himself.



Except for the prophecy of Jeremiah 31 is confirmed and explained by Hebrews 8, and 9, that Jesus is the mediator of that new covenant between God and the houses of Israel, and that the new covenant took effect at His death.

That’s why you, the wild olive branch, have to be grafted onto the house of Israel’s olive tree (covenant) by faith - and salvation only came to you to make His nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, jealous - all from Romans 11.

salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous

Quote the Scripture: solely to make a certain people jealous. That in itself is respect of persons after the flesh, which God does not have. (Acts 10:34)

God comes to all mankind after the cross for one sole reason, because He so loves the whole world that He would have all men to be saved. He does not come to other physical seed with an agenda of spite aimed at another particular physical seed: there is no more physical seed of promise, but all are now of one corrupted seed of Adam and one blood, and none are any more of promise, and all are commanded to repent (Acts 17).

Reading the Scriptures of God speaking after the death of His Son, God has no more anything to do with any particular physical seed, whether out of special promise or special spite: the flesh profits nothing with God anymore (John 6:63), for they have all gone out of the way and become unprofitable to Him (Rom 3:12), even them that had the written letters of the oracles of God. (Rom 3:1-2)

Le the mote of physical seed be taken away from your eyes, that you may see clearly the seed of faith to judge prophesy rightly as written by God, not as traditionalized by men.

Israel is still His people, because Israel remains the name of His people. The seed has changed from physical to faith, but the name remains the same. There is no replacement of Israel, but rather change of people of Israel: to God. Maybe not to man who still read prophesy with physical seed on the mind, but not God. All such are still carnally minded when reading prophecy, even as those that read Scripture by the vail of Moses. (2 Cor 3)

 

[robert derrick]

Except for the fact that Romans 11 is clear that salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous - which establishes that Israel is still His people, as Paul clearly iterates in Roma’s 11:1-2.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and they see the deliverer, Jesus, come out of Zion (Jerusalem) and all those Israelites alive at that time to see Jesus come out of Jerusalem (after He has returned to mount Olive, and saved Jerusalem from destruction by wiping out the coalition of Muslim nations that in the process of destroying it, per Zechariah 14:1) will be saved by faith in Him as messiah.

Yes, God is so totally done and finished with Israel, that Jesus saves their beloved city (beloved by God, too) from destruction, then per Zechariah 14:16 through the end of that chapter, stays in that city from then on, and the nations left alive come into the gates to worship The Father and Himself.



Except for the prophecy of Jeremiah 31 is confirmed and explained by Hebrews 8, and 9, that Jesus is the mediator of that new covenant between God and the houses of Israel, and that the new covenant took effect at His death.

That’s why you, the wild olive branch, have to be grafted onto the house of Israel’s olive tree (covenant) by faith - and salvation only came to you to make His nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, jealous - all from Romans 11.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now.

Blindness in part does not mean part of Israel is blind, but rather pertains to part of the reason for Israel's blindness, for they were all blind at the cross (as Peter), but all have not remained blind (As Peter and Paul).

There is no blind part of Israel after the cross: that is a thing of the past in the old covenant, as far back as when only Joshua and Kaleb believed among all that had fallen. All of israel is now saved, because the Deliverer has come out of Sion. I say again: the Deliverer has already come out of Sion. If you're still waiting for another deliverer to come out of Sion, you are as blind to prophesy, as them that are blind to Scripture who rejected the Deliverer who has already come.

I love you as a brother, and I do not question your faith of Jesus and salvation by grace, but you are in part blind to prophesy by the lens of physical seed. Be rid of it. There is, has been, and always shall be one seed of promise with God to Abraham: not two (Gal 3:16). There is no physical seed of promise alongside a so-called 'spiritual' seed of promise. Even if there were a 'spiritual seed', there would then be two seeds of promise, because even the 'spiritual' seed is in natural bodies, which is the body of Christ and people of God, even as they of the old covenant were natural bodies and people of God.

There is no more of Israel but not all Israel (Rom 9:6). All who are of Israel are now all Israel, who are saved by grace thru faith. All Israel shall be saved does not possibly pertain to the physical seed, because many of the physical seed have perished, beginning with them at the mount in idolatry, and conclude with them at the cross, which were all concluded under sin of unbelief. (Rom 11:32)

The promise of God to the faithful is that all would truly be faithful and no more hypocrites and persecutors within the house of God, even as there were amongst the physical seed against the prophets of old and Jesus Himself: the glory of the body of christ is that all who are of Christ are in Christ, and there is none allowed through the cross to the Father without the blood of Jesus.

Do you not see? The great promise is not that all the physical seed shall be saved, which is far past impossible, but that in Israel, no matter what their natural birth, they are indeed and in truth Israel of God.

There is no more of Israel, but not all Israel, even as there is no of the body of Christ, but not all the body of christ. The promise of God fulfilled in Christ is that ALL who are so name are so saved in deed and in truth (1 John 3:18). No more hypocrites allowed in the people and nation of God, for God now judges the secrets of men's hearts by the gospel of Jesus, not just the outward obedience by the law of Moses. (Rom 2:16)

 

[robert derrick]

Except for the fact that Romans 11 is clear that salvation came to the Gentiles solely to make Israel jealous - which establishes that Israel is still His people, as Paul clearly iterates in Roma’s 11:1-2.

Most of Israel is in disbelief now, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and they see the deliverer, Jesus, come out of Zion (Jerusalem) and all those Israelites alive at that time to see Jesus come out of Jerusalem (after He has returned to mount Olive, and saved Jerusalem from destruction by wiping out the coalition of Muslim nations that in the process of destroying it, per Zechariah 14:1) will be saved by faith in Him as messiah.

Yes, God is so totally done and finished with Israel, that Jesus saves their beloved city (beloved by God, too) from destruction, then per Zechariah 14:16 through the end of that chapter, stays in that city from then on, and the nations left alive come into the gates to worship The Father and Himself.



Except for the prophecy of Jeremiah 31 is confirmed and explained by Hebrews 8, and 9, that Jesus is the mediator of that new covenant between God and the houses of Israel, and that the new covenant took effect at His death.

That’s why you, the wild olive branch, have to be grafted onto the house of Israel’s olive tree (covenant) by faith - and salvation only came to you to make His nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, jealous - all from Romans 11.

until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled

The Gentiles that know not God are all the nations of the earth, including them that call themselves Israel and Jew outwardly, but are not.

There is no more Jew vs Gentile outside of Christ, even as there is no more Jew vs Gentile in Christ: all outside of Christ are gentiles of unbelief, whether of outward circumcision or uncircumcision, and all that are in Christ are Jews of faith with inward circumcision.

Likewise, the nation of Israel is not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit: a holy nation even as God sought from the beginning of the old covenant (Ex 19:5-6), which the psychical seed drew back from (Ex 20:18-19), but now is fulfilled in Christ: there are the gentile nations of the earth treading the court of the temple of God, the earth that is His footstool, which include them calling themselves Israel and are liars, and there is the one nation of God on earth, the body and people of God by Christ Jesus: the people of promise who now are jews inwardly and citizens of Israel by fatih.

The age of the Gentiles that know not God (1 Thess 4:5) will be fulfilled at the end of the last great tribulation upon the saints of God on earth, of which the so-called Jews will be vanguard for the beast against the followers of the Lamb, and will celebrate in a defiled Purim the death of His two witnesses, even as they falsely worship in a religion of their own making: called the Jews religion by Scripture. (Gal 1:13-14)

 

[robert derrick]

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Blindness in part is not part of Israel still blind, but rather part of the reason for blind physical Israel is to allow God to disanull His old covenant with them, that He may move on to the rest of the world, no matter what seed they be born of. So long as the Testator lived, the new covenant could not be in effect: He was still bound to the old. (Heb 9:16-17)

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

All Israel shall be saved cannot possibly mean the physical seed, because much of the physical seed has perished, beginning at the mount, continued through the wilderness, and finally at the cross. In addition the physical seed has been made that of Hagar (Gal 4:22-31), not of Sarah, at the death of the Testator on the cross by their hands. That physical seed of Jacob no longer exists, because Jacob was by Isaac of Sarah, not Ishmael of Hagar.

The prophesy of promise to the prophets of old is that one day would come a Deliverer that would make all of Israel to be all Israel: all that are named Israel of God are indeed Israel of God. (Rom 9:6)

What the prophets searched into and looked for was a day when there were no more false children in Israel. No more persecutors within their own nation against themselves. A day when they would walk among them called of God, who were of God in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:18)

Jesus has confirmed that promise to the prophets of old in the seed of faith, who are now the children of Abraham, and of promise as Isaac, and of God by His own seed:

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. (Rom 15:8)

None can seriously say that them born of the seed of God (1 Peter 2:23), called by God the children of promise and of Abraham and of Himself, are not in fact in their bodies the seed of promise, to whom the prophecies have been fulfilled:

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. (1 Peter 1)

The Deliverer out of Sion has come.

And he died on a cross to fulfill the prophesy that all Israel, that is called Israel by God, is Israel, and not Esau, nor Ishmael.

 

[farouk]

1 Corinthians 10.32: "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God".

 

[robert derrick]

Replacement theology clams the root is no longer there - they have it backwards, just as Paul says in your quote.

Replacement theology clams the root is no longer there
An incomprehensible statement pertaining to a theology that does not exist in Scripture:

The physical seed is no longer there, but the seed of God remains, because His gifts and callings are without repentance, and so the seed gives root and birth to new branches in Christ.

The seed of God gives birth to the seed of faith and branches that believe inwardly, not just obey outwardly, which he could not do through the law of a carnal commandment, but can be done through the power of an endless life. (Heb 7:16)

If the seed of God is not the seed of faith and promise, then there is no seed of promise.

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Romans 9:7-8)

If the seed and children of the flesh are yet still the seed of Isaac and children of promise, then Scripture of God has no meaning, and what God says pertaining to His seed and promise is worthless in the eyes of man, who have their manner of understanding of prophesy of scripture.

The physical seed of promise in the old covenant have made themselves the seed of Hagar as Ishmael (Gal 4:22-31), and the seed of faith are become the seed of Sarah as Isaac. This is Scripture.

They that were Jews and Israel after the flesh have made themselves uncircumcision and separated from God by unbelief and crucifixion of His dear Son. (Rom 2:26-29)

 

[n2thelight]

So are we gonna have a Jesus for Israel and a Jesus for the Church ?

And are you saying Israel are not Christians ?