The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

So you believe that God will choose 144,000 sex-deprived Israelites.

Is that the criterion for His choice?

I believe what Word says. Simple as that.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So the above verses are what I believe. You can make up whatever you want for you to believe. It won't change the truth.

 

[covenantee]

I believe what Word says. Simple as that.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So the above verses are what I believe. You can make up whatever you want for you to believe. It won't change the truth.

It's listed as a characteristic, so it must have significance.

What do you think is its significance?

 

[David in NJ]

The Bible doesn't use the term "ethnic", but these 144,000 are said to be of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Why make this distinction between the Israel of Old and the innumerable multitude if speaking of all Christians? It's not uncommon in Scripture to find Israel of old that shall be saved as "the remnant" of faithful saints. That language is not used of Gentile believers. Since the advent of Christ in this Gospel age Scripture speaks of the body of Christ being too many to count of ALL nations, tribes, kindreds and tongues. Together with saints of old and saints of new we are the body of believers in Christ. John writes of the sealing of these Old Covenant faithful saints as "firstfruits" of the Lord. Who can deny the first to believe would of necessity have to be sealed with the Spirit of Christ to be made alive? After their sealing and being spiritually raised a spiritual body, the Spirit is sent unto the four corners of the earth, and through Him the totality of heaven shall be innumerable to man.

@rwb says: "The Bible doesn't use the term "ethnic", but these 144,000 are said to be of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Now why would this be, exactly?

What Marvelous and Wonderful development occurred that transforms us into "sons of God"?

Being a true "son of God" by the Spirit of God places us where?

 

[David in NJ]

Genesis 7

Genesis 7
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

1 Thes 4
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

Genesis 8
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

The Great Tribulation is over at the 6th seal when the second harvest occurs.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Wrath is over when the 7th trumpet sounds.

Noah and those with him in the Ark is Post-Trib and Pre-Wrath = just as God promised = John 16:33 and 1 Thess 1:10 , 1 Thess 5:9

 

[rwb]

@rwb says: "The Bible doesn't use the term "ethnic", but these 144,000 are said to be of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Now why would this be, exactly?

What Marvelous and Wonderful development occurred that transforms us into "sons of God"?

Being a true "son of God" by the Spirit of God places us where?

The 144,000 are the Old Covenant faithful saints who died before the advent of Christ. They are the faithful Church, Israel of Old, the Church in the wilderness before Christ, whom the prophets foretell would come. They are the embodiment of the Church that was, but they are not the complete Church. She will not be complete until the fullness of the Gentiles come in. Then She will be an innumerable multitude from all nations, tribes, kindreds and tongues.

Acts 7:37-38 (KJV) This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Unlike believers after the cross and resurrection, these Old Covenant faithful saints could not as a spiritual body ascend to heaven until they were made alive by the Spirit that would be IN them and take them to heaven. This is what the sealing of the 144,000 of the Old Covenant faithful saints depicts. They were sealed and spiritually raised to heaven a spiritual body, then the Holy Spirit was sent unto the four corners of the earth. After being sealed they join with the throng in heaven, an innumerable multitude of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue where they give all glory, honor and praise to the Lord as they wait for the last trumpet to sound that time given this earth for building the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be no longer.

 

[David in NJ]

The 144,000 are the Old Covenant faithful saints who died before the advent of Christ. They are the faithful Church, Israel of Old, the Church in the wilderness before the prophets foretell would come. They are the embodiment of the Church that was, but they are not the complete Church. She will not be complete until the fullness of the Gentiles come in. Then She will be an innumerable multitude from all nations, tribes, kindreds and tongues.

Acts 7:37-38 (KJV) This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Unlike believers after the cross and resurrection, these Old Covenant faithful saints could not as a spiritual body ascend to heaven until they were made alive by the Spirit that would be IN them and take them to heaven. This is what the sealing of the 144,000 of the Old Covenant faithful saints depicts. They were sealed and spiritually raised to heaven a spiritual body, then the Holy Spirit was sent unto the four corners of the earth. After being sealed they join with the throng in heaven, an innumerable multitude of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue where they give all glory, honor and praise to the Lord as they wait for the last trumpet to sound that time given this earth for building the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be no longer.

rwb says: "The 144,000 are the Old Covenant faithful saints who died before the advent of Christ."

NOPE - not even close

 

[rwb]

rwb says: "The 144,000 are the Old Covenant faithful saints who died before the advent of Christ."

NOPE - not even close

Prove what you allege! If they are not the Old Covenant faithful saints symbolized as 144,000 (remnant) who are they and how can you prove they are who you think they are?

 

[The Light]

Noah and those with him in the Ark is Post-Trib and Pre-Wrath = just as God promised = John 16:33 and 1 Thess 1:10 , 1 Thess 5:9

Oh. So the flood doesn't happen until 6 days after Noah is sealed in the ark and it's post trib and pre wrath? Nah. It's pre trib.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh. So the flood doesn't happen until 6 days after Noah is sealed in the ark and it's post trib and pre wrath? Nah. It's pre trib.

The Flood is not the Tribulation that Noah had to overcome.

You have no idea what was present on earth for more then 100 years before Noah finished the Ark.

 

[Zao is life]

Noah and those with him in the Ark is Post-Trib and Pre-Wrath = just as God promised = John 16:33 and 1 Thess 1:10 , 1 Thess 5:9

Yes. The ark lifted those who were in it from the earth on the same day that the flood came. Those in Christ will be lifted from the earth on the same day that the Day of Christ comes.

Same day. The day the beast's Pharaoh's armies were destroyed was the day God's people were delivered.

The Revelation is packed with types and anti-types - packed with them - so that the saints who have ears to hear will understand. I don't understand why the types and anti-types aren't mentioned by the saints all the time - but the saints do not see it because they're too busy making the Revelation comply with their faulty interpretations of scripture.

And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near. -- Luke 2:28, just as Noah & Fam were waiting expectantly in the ark for the flood to come.

Noah had been told 120 years before the flood came to build the ark, when God repented that He had made man and the end of all flesh came before Him. Once they had entered inside the ark on the day the flood came, God Himself shut the door. No one could enter after that.

And no one was able to enter into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. -- Rev 15:8.
​

The 7th trumpet. The 7th bowl. Unveiled by the 7th seal. The cities of the nations fell. The walls of Jericho fell flat. on the 7th day, when the 7th march around the city was completed, at the sound of the 7th trumpet.

7 priests blowing 7 trumpets for 7 days. Noah was told to get his family and the animals into the ark 7 days before the flood came, and on the 7th day, Noah & Fam entered the ark, and God shut the door. Then the flood began.

It's not "the Revelation of John". It's the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass (Rev 1:1). And it's packed with types and anti-types.

But there's no unveiling for those who pull a veil over their own eyes with false doctrines.​

 

[rwb]

How they can get only the Jews out of 12 tribes is beyond me. Revelation 7:9 tells us who the 144,000 are.

It never had anything to do with anyone's genetic ancestry but only with who believes the Word of God like Abraham did. And the Word of God is Jesus. Abraham became the father of a multitude of Gentile nations through ten of Israel's sons. Not one of them is the patriarch of the Jews. Not even Bejamin is.

The 144,000 Old Covenant faithful saints are most assuredly counted with the innumerable multitude, but they are also symbolically numbered as 144,000, which equates to a remnant of Old. This shows the efficacy of the cross and resurrection. Prior to the first advent of Christ, few were saved, but now since Christ has come the number of saints in heaven shall be innumerable.

 

[rwb]

Yes. The ark lifted those who were in it from the earth on the same day that the flood came. Those in Christ will be lifted from the earth on the same day that the Day of Christ comes.

The waters of the flood covered the whole earth. The ark floated on the waters that were on the earth, not lifted from the earth. Those in Christ shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and changed when the last trumpet sounds that time given this earth shall be no longer.

 

[The Light]

Yes. The ark lifted those who were in it from the earth on the same day that the flood came. Those in Christ will be lifted from the earth on the same day that the Day of Christ comes.​

You are confusing the Noah story which is the Church safely sealed in the ark 6 days before the flood with the story of Lot who left Sodom the same day the flood came.

The story of Noah is a type showing the Church raptured before the tribulation. The story of Lot shows destruction the day Lot leaves Sodom.

The Church leaves before the seals are opened. The second harvest occurs at the 6th seal before wrath begins. Two raptures.

The Revelation is packed with types and anti-types - packed with them - so that the saints who have ears to hear will understand. I don't understand why the types and anti-types aren't mentioned by the saints all the time - but the saints do not see it because they're too busy making the Revelation comply with their faulty interpretations of scripture.

And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near. -- Luke 2:28, just as Noah & Fam were waiting expectantly in the ark for the flood to come.​

Noah and His family are in the ark before the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS happens where they remain until the flood comes 6 days after they are sealed in.

Noah had been told 120 years before the flood came to build the ark, when God repented that He had made man and the end of all flesh came before Him. Once they had entered inside the ark on the day the flood came, God Himself shut the door. No one could enter after that.

You should do some additional study. Noah does not enter the ark the day of the flood.

The 7th trumpet. The 7th bowl. Unveiled by the 7th seal. The cities of the nations fell. The walls of Jericho fell flat. on the 7th day, when the 7th march around the city was completed, at the sound of the 7th trumpet.

Yeah but you miss the part where the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal.

7 priests blowing 7 trumpets for 7 days. Noah was told to get his family and the animals into the ark 7 days before the flood came, and on the 7th day, Noah & Fam entered the ark, and God shut the door. Then the flood began.

You are correct that Noah was told to enter the ark 7 days before the flood. Noah entered the ark on day one and the Lord shut him in. The flood came 6 days after Noah was shut in.

It's not "the Revelation of John". It's the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass (Rev 1:1). And it's packed with types and anti-types.

But there's no unveiling for those who pull a veil over their own eyes with false doctrines.​

You need to study Genesis 7 some more so you will understand these types. Once you understand the story of Noah you should understand whose doctrine is false.

 

[The Light]

The 144,000 Old Covenant faithful saints

Wow! Now the 144,000 are Old Covenant saints. I've never heard anyone make that up before. I heard the nonsense that the 144,000 is the Church. I've heard the baloney that the 144,000 is all of Israel and now I get to hear that the malarkey that the 144,000 are Old Testament saints.

Is there anyone around here that accepts the Word of God as written?

are most assuredly counted with the innumerable multitude, but they are also symbolically numbered as 144,000, which equates to a remnant of Old. This shows the efficacy of the cross and resurrection. Prior to the first advent of Christ, few were saved, but now since Christ has come the number of saints in heaven shall be innumerable.

What this shows is you don't understand and accept what is clearly written.

I've never understood the need to make something up when the answer is already given.

 

[The Light]

The waters of the flood covered the whole earth. The ark floated on the waters that were on the earth, not lifted from the earth. Those in Christ shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and changed when the last trumpet sounds that time given this earth shall be no longer.

Those that are caught up will be in heaven with the Lord at the marriage supper.

 

[David in NJ]

You are confusing the Noah story which is the Church safely sealed in the ark 6 days before the flood with the story of Lot who left Sodom the same day the flood came.

The story of Noah is a type showing the Church raptured before the tribulation. The story of Lot shows destruction the day Lot leaves Sodom.

The Church leaves before the seals are opened. The second harvest occurs at the 6th seal before wrath begins. Two raptures.


Noah and His family are in the ark before the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS happens where they remain until the flood comes 6 days after they are sealed in.

You should do some additional study. Noah does not enter the ark the day of the flood.


Yeah but you miss the part where the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal.


You are correct that Noah was told to enter the ark 7 days before the flood. Noah entered the ark on day one and the Lord shut him in. The flood came 6 days after Noah was shut in.


You need to study Genesis 7 some more so you will understand these types. Once you understand the story of Noah you should understand whose doctrine is false.

The LORD Jesus concludes BOTH Noah and Lot as the SAME example for us to understand.

 

[The Light]

The LORD Jesus concludes BOTH Noah and Lot as the SAME example for us to understand.

There is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. Jacob had two brides, The fig tree has two harvests. The Lord himself comes at one coming and He sends His angels in another coming. One coming the dead rises first then the alive are caught up and another coming the dead and alive are changed at the same time. One coming we can escape all these things in the tribulation that come to pass and another coming occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE wrath.

One coming is like the days of Noah where Noah is sealed in the ark 6 days before the flood and one coming is like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. So are the coming of Jesus BEFORE the tribulation and again when He comes at the 6th seal, BEFORE wrath.

 

[rwb]

Wow! Now the 144,000 are Old Covenant saints. I've never heard anyone make that up before. I heard the nonsense that the 144,000 is the Church. I've heard the baloney that the 144,000 is all of Israel and now I get to hear that the malarkey that the 144,000 are Old Testament saints.

Is there anyone around here that accepts the Word of God as written?

What this shows is you don't understand and accept what is clearly written.

I've never understood the need to make something up when the answer is already given.

Talk to me again when you can prove Biblically what you allege! Otherwise I have no interest in listening or responding to your opinions!

 

[Zao is life]

The waters of the flood covered the whole earth. The ark floated on the waters that were on the earth, not lifted from the earth. Those in Christ shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and changed when the last trumpet sounds that time given this earth shall be no longer.

Type & Anti-type. Either way the Ark of our salvation will deliver us from the destruction on the day the destruction comes -IF we're in the Ark and are not found poor and blind and naked.

 

[The Light]

Talk to me again when you can prove Biblically what you allege! Otherwise I have no interest in listening or responding to your opinions!

No problem. I allege that the 144,000 are first fruits from 12 tribes of Israel.

Here is the Biblical proof. Do you have any proof that this is in error?

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.